The General Ross County Chat Thread

[Pull My Strings]

50 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

I think one thing that was never really examined as far as I remember was the issue of why Mackay felt he could send those messages in the first place.

This is a guy who is the epitome of the football insider. Son of a player and an entire working life in football dressing rooms, dealing with coaches, dealing with scouts and agents etc and being exposed to the kind of things people talk and laugh about in those contexts. And he felt safe sending those messages. I'd imagine there were rakes of messages deleted by people in football in a panic as that story broke. Unless we genuinely believe that Malky Mackay just completely misread the room in terms of what he could send to other people in the game after decades working in football. That doesn't seem plausible to me.

What he did was wrong. But excluding one guy for life for something that all the evidence of the case tells us was a culturally acceptable thing to do seems wrong.

But then, I still wouldn't want him at Hearts.

That's a bit of stretch. I doubt he sent those sorts of messages to everyone and I think it's a bit unfair on the basis of a few bigoted bell-ends within Mackay's circle of friends to tar everyone in football with the same brush. 

[Guest TheJTS98]

5 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

That's a bit of stretch. I doubt he sent those sorts of messages to everyone and I think it's a bit unfair on the basis of a few bigoted bell-ends within Mackay's circle of friends to tar everyone in football with the same brush. 

I'm not saying everyone in football is racist. But there's clearly some kind of culture of acceptance if the manager of a football club is texting people like that.

I can remember being coached at top-flight Scottish clubs as a teenager and hearing racist language from coaches (mostly ex-players) was in no way unusual. Just the way it was.

I just don't think Mackay sends those texts out of nowhere. It would be an extraordinary misjudgement for a guy who knows the football community inside out to make. I struggle to believe that he would send those if he wasn't completely confident of a sympathetic audience.

Edited May 26, 2021 by TheJTS98

[MarkPockets]

I really hope the club is looking at the backlash this morning and ripping up any contract which was written

[Pull My Strings]

58 minutes ago, Spain said:

This is my view.

Also, let's be honest here, he's not just one rotten egg in an otherwise perfect industry. As Yoda pointed out earlier, the game is rife with racists, bigots, homophobes, sex offenders, violent offenders and the like. And that's just the ones we know about. There will be many in the game similar to Mackay, he just happened to be stupid and careless enough to get it put out there. He's done his training and counselling, and the anti-racism campaigns are on board with him, but he hasn't publicly shown any contrition or proactively tried to atone. It's difficult, I always prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'd rather it wasn't my club welcoming him with open arms.

It's not really though - or at least there is no reason to presume that it is in comparison to the rest of the population. There are thousands of professional footballers in the UK. The fact that you can name a dozen who are proven arseholes does not mean that they all are, or that their behaviour is more culturally acceptable within football than it would be within any other occupation largely populated by young, working class men.

3 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

I'm not saying everyone in football is racist. But there's clearly some kind of culture of acceptance if the manager of a football club is texting people like that.

I can remember being coached at top-flight Scottish clubs as a teenager and hearing racist language from coaches (mostly ex-players) was in no way unusual. Just the way it was.

I just don't think Mackay sends those texts out of nowhere. It would be an extraordinary misjudgement for a guy who knows the football community inside out to make. I struggle to believe that he would send those if he wasn't completely confident of a sympathetic audience.

That's not clear at all. Mackay was sending messages to like minded friends and colleagues (or at least friends and colleagues who would be known to tolerate his shit). I think we'd need to see all his messages to everyone, inside and outside of football, to know whether he was uniformly and exclusively a racist w****r with football colleagues and an entirely different beast with everyone else.

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, yoda said:

There's an argument that maybe, just maybe, he's changed and become a better person. Kick It Out and Show Racism The Red Card appear to be in his corner. However, he's not really shown any contrition for what happened. Not publicly at least. And there's the small matter of him pretty comprehensively covering almost all bases of bigotry: racism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, etc. It's not that he's a stupid wee boy who made a mistake; he's a grown man and there was slur after slur. 

Football is obviously very contradictory. Declan Gallagher gets jobs at Motherwell and Aberdeen despite caving someone's skull in with a baseball bat and not really showing any remorse. Luis Suarez still picks up hundreds of thousands a week despite being a known racist. That Leeds goalkeeper is still at Leeds. Jamie Vardy, of racism fame, continues to be one of the most celebrated strikers in England. There's a rogues' gallery of racists, sex offenders, thugs, and killers (okay, manslaughter-erers) who still pick up a wage from football. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr Heliums said:

I hope you're right.  Everyone seemed to adore the story of David Martindale this season – from a self-confessed greedy drug dealer who helped destroy people's lives to an inspiration to others in that situation. It was a fantastic feel-good story that the  press were slavering about it in the build up to the League Cup final.

I don't know if the indefensible things that Mackay said are directly comparable. It's certainly not as romantic. But surely the principle is the same: we have to offer a path to redemption for those who have done awful things in the past. We can't permanently cancel them or  condemn someone forever if they show they've learned their lesson. That's the big question of course. But I presume he has if Roy McGregor is offering him a job.

 

1 hour ago, TheJTS98 said:

I'd imagine there were rakes of messages deleted by people in football in a panic as that story broke. Unless we genuinely believe that Malky Mackay just completely misread the room in terms of what he could send to other people in the game after decades working in football. That doesn't seem plausible to me.

What he did was wrong. But excluding one guy for life for something that all the evidence of the case tells us was a culturally acceptable thing to do seems wrong.

 

54 minutes ago, Spain said:

This is my view.

Also, let's be honest here, he's not just one rotten egg in an otherwise perfect industry. As Yoda pointed out earlier, the game is rife with racists, bigots, homophobes, sex offenders, violent offenders and the like. And that's just the ones we know about. There will be many in the game similar to Mackay, he just happened to be stupid and careless enough to get it put out there. He's done his training and counselling, and the anti-racism campaigns are on board with him, but he hasn't publicly shown any contrition or proactively tried to atone. It's difficult, I always prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'd rather it wasn't my club welcoming him with open arms.

 

I think you all make great points. As disgraceful as Mackay's comments were, and a sad indictment of how he thinks and how he feels it is acceptable to communicate, they were a handful of private texts out of 10,000 sent.  Is that really worse than smashing someone's head in with a baseball bat?  And lets be honest, most on here will be happily cheering him on this summer.  Or a drug dealing manager who might not be this same repentant character most of Scottish football has supported and respected this season if he hadn't been caught.  And that's before you even begin to mention the sex offenders, and various other characters of questionable pasts.

The thing that lets Mackay down is that he's a manager who has done nothing to justify the inevitable backlash the club will receive for employing him.  There are countless other baggage free managers out there who have underachieved and are available.

 

[TheScarf]

6 minutes ago, MarkPockets said:

I really hope the club is looking at the backlash this morning and ripping up any contract which was written

You would think so.  If your SLO is speaking to the board I'd suggest there's a fair chance that Malky Mackay won't be the next Ross County manager.

[staggy1929]

Realistically, what can even happen at this point for Roy to save face? I think it's similar to the super league debacle where although it didn't go through the fans no longer have any trust in the board.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

 

[Guest TheJTS98]

2 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

It's not really though - or at least there is no reason to presume that it is in comparison to the rest of the population. There are thousands of professional footballers in the UK. The fact that you can name a dozen who are proven arseholes does not mean that they all are, or that their behaviour is more culturally acceptable within football than it would be within any other occupation largely populated by young, working class men.

That's not clear at all. Mackay was sending messages to like minded friends and colleagues (or at least friends and colleagues who would be known to tolerate his shit). I think we'd need to see all his messages to everyone, inside and outside of football, to know whether he was uniformly and exclusively a racist w****r with football colleagues and an entirely different beast with everyone else.

It's a judgement call. I just view it like this:

I work at a university at the moment. We have a work text group. Nobody would dream of posting racist stuff to our work WA group, even if they were a massive bigot. It would be self-policed, they'd maybe get the bullet, but they would at best completely lose face and be a pariah. Nobody would be that stupid.

Yet, Mackay felt comfortable sending those messages in a professional context. There's only two ways that happen. The first is if Mackay was an absolute moron with no idea that other people would object. You'd need to believe he's not just a bigot, but also incredibly stupid. The second is that he was in an environment where he believed that to be acceptable.

I just think the second option is more likely.

[MarkPockets]

1 minute ago, TheScarf said:

You would think so.  If your SLO is speaking to the board I'd suggest there's a fair chance that Malky Mackay won't be the next Ross County manager.

The problem is, that would be logical. 

[staggy1929]

Know what I can see happening, I can see Malky's first signing being someone that isn't white so he  and the club can be like 'see? how can I be racist if I sign black players?' Which will pull the wool over the eyes of absolutely no one.

[johnnydun]

5 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

 

 

 

 

I think you all make great points. As disgraceful as Mackay's comments were, and a sad indictment of how he thinks and how he feels it is acceptable to communicate, they were a handful of private texts out of 10,000 sent.  Is that really worse than smashing someone's head in with a baseball bat?  And lets be honest, most on here will be happily cheering him on this summer.  Or a drug dealing manager who might not be this same repentant character most of Scottish football has supported and respected this season if he hadn't been caught.  And that's before you even begin to mention the sex offenders, and various other characters of questionable pasts.

The thing that lets Mackay down is that he's a manager who has done nothing to justify the inevitable backlash the club will receive for employing him.  There are countless other baggage free managers out there who have underachieved and are available.

 

Would you accept Malky at St Johnstone? Obviously my question is not meant on ability or to replace your current manager, but on him as a person.

[Pull My Strings]

19 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

It's a judgement call. I just view it like this:

I work at a university at the moment. We have a work text group. Nobody would dream of posting racist stuff to our work WA group, even if they were a massive bigot. It would be self-policed, they'd maybe get the bullet, but they would at best completely lose face and be a pariah. Nobody would be that stupid.

Yet, Mackay felt comfortable sending those messages in a professional context. There's only two ways that happen. The first is if Mackay was an absolute moron with no idea that other people would object. You'd need to believe he's not just a bigot, but also incredibly stupid. The second is that he was in an environment where he believed that to be acceptable.

I just think the second option is more likely.

No, there's three options:

3. He was sending those messages to people who he knew would not object and sending different types of messages to other people. With respect, any other interpretation is utterly bizarre and would require everyone in football to be turning a blind eye to bigotry constantly. 

[Guest TheJTS98]

15 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

No, there's three options:

3. He was sending those messages to people who he knew would not object and sending different types of messages to other people. With respect, any other interpretation is utterly bizarre and would require everyone in football to be turning a blind eye to bigotry constantly. 

Mackay is a white guy in a job where black managers, coaches, scouts, and directors are hugely under-represented when measured against black players and where punishments for racist offences are routinely risible.

The industry that gave us Ron Atkinson casually dropping the N-word in a tv studio. The England captain calling another player a 'black c**t' in a televised match. His club supported him and he's now Assistant Manager at a Premier League club. No problemo.  Suarez racially abusing an opponent and being supported by his club. Wayne Hennessy doing a Nazi salute in a night out picture.

Why is it a bizarre interpretation to suggest that there may be an acceptance of racist text messages/'bantz' in such an industry?

Edited May 26, 2021 by TheJTS98

[Derry Alli]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Say Mackay is no longer an option, so you're going back to Hughes. Fans happy you've listened to them, plus happy that Hughes is in considering the alternative.

Mr Hughes is going upstairs in Tannadice. 

[Jarballs]

Obviously having a laugh at County is good fun, Mackay is a thick, bigoted c**t though. Unfortunately, as we have all seen many times, that doesn't seem to hold people back in Scottish football and indeed seems to be a requirement for many punditry/journalism gigs.  Ironically, it was only last night when I was speaking to my sister in Zimbabwe who is planning visiting the Highlands at some point now COVID is (hopefully) a bit more under control that I said there's a very low tolerance for racism and well, intolerance up here. Despite Uncle Roy's best efforts, I think the reaction of most County fans here has shown that.

I would also say that while bashing someone's coupon in with a baseball bat and getting caught punting ching are of course bad things, at least the perpetrators got the jail and were punished as part of their rehabilitation, whatever you might think of them. I'm not saying that offensive texts are comparable to GBH but Mackay got sent on some sort of diversity course ("Now Malky, that's not what we say, is it? We get Singapore noodles from the CHINESE!") then walked into a cushy, generously-paid job at the SFA doing... what, exactly? He got a shot at managing our national team anyway, despite being a pretty average manager at best, as some have pointed out.

A deeply cynical person might also say that Show Racism The Red Card and whoever else are backing him because the alternative is admitting that their solution of week or two looking at Powerpoint presentations might not be enough sort out a grown man in his 40s who thinks it's alright to send misogynist, racist, homophobic and anti-semitic texts like that ON HIS FUCKING WORK PHONE.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Jarballs

[anotherchance]

I do think that if there's no "incentive" for people to be able to learn from their mistakes and get a second chance, then they might as well not bother changing and just keep being racist and bigoted instead - which doesn't help society either. 

A background role, as he had with Scotland, would probably be for the best. There was always a bit of aggro about him being there, but people just got on with supporting Scotland regardless, presumably because it wasn't a frontline football management role.

 

[Comrie]

Officially confirmed. Fucking hell.

https://www.rosscountyfootballclub.co.uk/news-items/malky-mackay-appointed-manager

[MarkPockets]

1 minute ago, Comrie said:

Officially confirmed. Fucking hell.

https://www.rosscountyfootballclub.co.uk/news-items/malky-mackay-appointed-manager

f**k sake. Even that statement is a fucking abominantion.

 

"In appointing Malky, the club feel that we have an individual who has vast experience, essential leadership skills and strong knowledge of the game. As well as being a respected figure throughout football with extensive contacts that will be essential in developing the next chapter of our club."

[Loki]

2 minutes ago, Comrie said:

Officially confirmed. Fucking hell.

https://www.rosscountyfootballclub.co.uk/news-items/malky-mackay-appointed-manager

What an utter embarrassment.