The Queen of the South Thread

[Fae_the_'briggs]

1 hour ago, die hard doonhamer said:

Whilst I don’t think it should be Gibson if the job does open up (mainly because he’s our best player), why is he any less ready than, say, AJ was first time round?

 And it’s a hard no to Clark, thanks. 

When someone suggested Gibson with an experienced assistant I was going to suggest Gibson with Clark as assistant but that would be a definite wind-up. Clark may be part of the present problem if he's advising Johnston on line-ups and tactics, but obviously it's Johnston who will (rightly) carry the can in the end. 

[the philosopher]

Not being nasty but I think u boys are destined for part time football.

Nothing wrong with that either ' ce la Arbroath

 

[Fae_the_'briggs]

6 hours ago, the philosopher said:

Not being nasty but I think u boys are destined for part time football.

Nothing wrong with that either ' ce la Arbroath

 

Arbroath are doing well at the moment being part time  as they seem to have a competent Board and management team, they may or may not continue to  have the same success in future if any of that changes though. Its a matter of debate if Queens' Board is totally competent, they have overseen some good things off the park, but we have flirted with relegation the past few seasons, so their running of the club in that time is questionable. Our Management team, although working under difficult restraints, don't seem to have what it takes to manage any team, part or full time, at Championship level. 

[19QOS19]

Not being nasty but I think u boys are destined for part time football.
Nothing wrong with that either ' ce la Arbroath
 

Surprised it hasn't happened already tbh. Given our poor crowds I fully expect us to move to a hybrid approach at the very least in the not too distant future.

[Greenacres]

13 hours ago, die hard doonhamer said:

Whilst I don’t think it should be Gibson if the job does open up (mainly because he’s our best player), why is he any less ready than, say, AJ was first time round?

 And it’s a hard no to Clark, thanks. 

You really think we have the money to pay off both AJ and Clark talking the best part of £100,000 to get rid of both .

Whatever happens Clark will be staying as a assistant or manager 

[Fae_the_'briggs]

2 minutes ago, Greenacres said:

You really think we have the money to pay off both AJ and Clark talking the best part of £100,000 to get rid of both .

Whatever happens Clark will be staying as a assistant or manager 

The board have got to weigh up the cost of potential relegation and the season upon season fight against relegation against the cost of paying off the management team, even if it does cost a bit of money to get rid of them. I would very much doubt Clark being kept on if Johnston goes, he's followed Johnston out of the Club before. Its a complete change at that level that's needed, indeed a complete overhaul or re-think of almost everything behind the scenes where the 1st team squad is concerned if we hope to continue as a recognised Championship club, or become a club yo-yo-ing between the Championship and the seaside leagues. I've long given up hope that we will actually show enough ambition to move up the way out of the Championship anyway. 

Also, apologies for quoting Greenacres to those who have him on ignore. 

[the_palmy_pie]

2 hours ago, Greenacres said:

You really think we have the money to pay off both AJ and Clark talking the best part of £100,000 to get rid of both .

Whatever happens Clark will be staying as a assistant or manager 

Please enlighten us to the terms of their contracts …..? 

[Slipmat]

It's very telling that, unless I've missed something, absolutely nobody has come to AJ's defence.  Even toward the end of the tenures of Naysmith, Gus and Iain Scott you would still hear the odd happy clapper saying "give him x number of weeks" or "wait to see who he brings in in the next transfer window" but on this occasion it seems to be a unanimous opinion amongst fans that he's got to go and the sooner the better.

I don't know if the board read comments on forums, but if they don't then I would be hoping that the SLOs are making them aware of the mood of the fans.  This is a test which will prove just how much of a community club that has the interests of the fans at heart Queen of the South FC actually is, and is also an indicator as to what expectations and ambitions the board have regarding the club's position in Scottish football.  If they are accepting relegation, they need only look to Falkirk to see how being a supposed big fish in a wee pond doesn't guarantee success.

We've been shat on before with the Sevco vote and the pathetic apology for the Galloway shambles, surely Billy & Co can't be seen to be failing to read the room again.

ETA - if the board come across as being apathetic, is it any wonder that the supporters become apathetic and drift away?

Edited November 21, 2021 by Slipmat

[TheScarf]

Also, part time doesn't mean they have worse players.  It just means they train 2 days a week instead of 4 or 5.

[Dougie Mills]

40 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Also, part time doesn't mean they have worse players.  It just means they train 2 days a week instead of 4 or 5.

Our players don’t appear to do anything constructive in training anyways so a few less sessions wouldn’t make much difference.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Dougie Mills

[Slipmat]

1 minute ago, Dougie Mills said:

Our players don’t appear to do anything constructive in training anyways so a few less sessions wouldn’t make in difference.

We'd probably have fewer injuries.

[TheScarf]

I'd say Arbroath have better players than Ayr and Morton at least. 

[Katboy]

I only managed to watch the 1st half of Fridays game on TV due to work commitments.  However, what I did see made for at times painful viewing.  Aimless punt up the park followed by aimless punt up the park, with little or no shape or structure to the team.   The last couple weeks had showed a little bit of improvement, and I was hoping for a further improvement.  Instead we were back to the disorganised shambles that has become indicative of Johnston's time at the club.  I can only surmise as to what actually happens at training during the week.

Every week we have players playing out of position and not fully knowing what role they are meant to be fulfilling.  I'm convinced he picks his formation out of a hat at 230pm every Saturday!  While I don't expect managers to jump about like a mad thing I do at least expect them to take their hands out of their pockets, and show a little bit of interest.  This apathy for me does transfer itself on to the pitch.

I have long since lost patience with this under performing manager.  The recent downward trend in attendances would suggest that I am far from being alone in this.  I accept there is a financial cost involved in removing and replacing him, but this should be weighed against the cost of relegation.  League 1 is a shadow of the league that we steamrollered the last time, and as has been proven with Falkirk in recent seasons will be far more difficult to get out of.  

Relegation will inevitably result in lesser crowds and lesser income from all sources.  Our board has to act now while there is still time.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Also, part time doesn't mean they have worse players.  It just means they train 2 days a week instead of 4 or 5.

Yes, but as general rule, the players who are capable of playing football for a living are better than those who need to combine playing with other employment. 

It's not so much that being full time makes you better because you train more; it's that in being offered a full time contract, you're probably already better than those who aren't.

Of course, when you get down to our level, you're right on the cusp of FT/PT. That means that the above General rule  breaks down a bit, as exemplified by what Arbroath are achieving.

[Manwithnoball]

Arbroath pay more part time than we do full time. Some of our players are on less than £300 a week full time. AJ has said that in many occasions. Something more embarrassing from the club is players being asked to travel up to Cove this weekend in their own transport at their own expense as club is paying hotel and meals. So unprofessional it is ridiculous. Arbroath also have a very settled squad for last few years because players play for the manger and less chop and changing every year. Almost all experienced players never want to play for AJ the next season. He is the issue!!!

Edited November 21, 2021 by Manwithnoball

[Otis Blue]

On 20/11/2021 at 19:02, 19QOS19 said:

It'll be Gibson.

To be fair, that's often what we do, promote from within ..... and of course it's cheaper (not decrying WG here by the way).

[19QOS19]

Arbroath pay more part time than we do full time. Some of our players are on less than £300 a week full time. AJ has said that in many occasions. Something more embarrassing from the club is players being asked to travel up to Cove this weekend in their own transport at their own expense as club is paying hotel and meals. So unprofessional it is ridiculous. Arbroath also have a very settled squad for last few years because players play for the manger and less chop and changing every year. Almost all experienced players never want to play for AJ the next season. He is the issue!!!

I won't pretend to know anything about our finances but we if we are paying players less than £300 a week in FT employment I'm more concerned ScotGov will be on our case. That's less than a week's worth on minimum wage.

They must make use of some kind of loophole for our reserve players mind you so perhaps it's the same with the first team squad...

[Otis Blue]

Jesus where to start .....?  Friday's performance was as woeful as I've seen from a Queens team in years (and there's been plenty to choose from as we all know).  Only Cochrane and Gibson seemed to have a clue what to do.  There was no energy in the side, and we lacked basic organisation, and we looked a dispirited (and already relegated) lot.  So what are the issues/options?

Budget:

- I've surmised in the recent past that we've trimmed our playing budget over the last couple of years due to the financial uncertainties surrounding the pandemic, and that could still be a factor

- AJ has said that we have one of the lowest budgets in the division, and there's probably truth in that, and most on here would doubt that not to be the case

- the budget isn't helped by dwindling crowds - but of course its a Catch-22 situation isn't it?  Poor performances year on year produce a downturn in attendances which equates to smaller budgets and hence a poorer squad.  A difficult circle to break and yet still keep the books in the black

Full Time or Part-time:

- Arbroath are a shining example that a great coach/motivator and a coach with an expert eye for a "player" can produce a part-time side which can outperform full time sides.  But how many Dick Campbell's are out there, and for how many season's can such a coach keep that success going?

- Despite the Arbroath example, I think the general consensus would be that to ensure longevity in the second tier, you really need to have a full-time squad and a decent coach.

Constant squad re-building:

- I'm not sure this should be laid at AJ's door as being responsible.  This is probably more down to the budget/strategy dictated by the BOD.

- But you don't have to be a genius to figure out that whilst we got away with a total re-build last season, the chances of getting away with it year on year aren't very good (regardless of who is manager) - That said, I think I'm right in saying that we might actually have one or two players being retained at the close of this season .... for a change.

AJ's coaching/influence:

- I've no idea what goes on behind the scenes in training/coaching sessions.  But whenever I listen to AJ's post match interviews or pre-match pieces, I don't get the feeling that this is someone who is going to motivate or inspire the players.  Mostly its a case of the guys have got to do better defending these set pieces ...... we cannae go on shooting ourselves in the foot .... moan, moan, etc etc.

- A manager/coach has to have many attributes at this level: tactical nous, organisational ability, eye for a "player", man-manager, motivator, be well connected .... and its a bloody hard job to find someone with all of the right traits, and who is available, and of course who we could actually afford.

- On Friday night, ICT at least looked like a team that knew what they were doing and how to go about it.

Benefits of a sojurn in League One:

- This has been mentioned recently in the thread, and there's some merits in this especially if you think back to our last season outside of the Championship.

- However, I'd suggest that the bottom two leagues are a different beast now (as Falkirk would no doubt tell you).  The season we were down the standard was poor and we were lucky to have the core of a decently talented squad, a combination that enabled us to skoosh that league.

- Now you have ambitious "new clubs" in there with fairly large budgets and ambitions to match (Cove Rangers, the new Queens Park and the likes of Kelty Hearts albeit lower down). 

- Plus of course the room for error is much reduced with the dangerous risk of the L2 trapdoor.

The pitch:

- Suffice to say that it does look dreadful

- From what I read, the original economics argument behind its introduction appears to lacking credibility now.  Of course I don't know the facts here, I'm only guessing

- But it doesn't appear to be helping our cause re the product on view, and probably doesn't help in attracting decent players

 

I guess I've just spent 20 minutes summarising stuff that all Queens fans already know, so apologies for that.  I just wish I knew some answers ........ such as suddenly finding a "sugar daddy" investor (a la Roy McGregor), but we all know how that sort of thing can end up a few years down the line ...... don't we Gretna?

[Manwithnoball]

Totally agree with Otis Blue's post. If we go down we will never come back up as this BOD has no interest in the long term stability of our club, they will just look at it as a way of saving more money. The idiots in charge decided to give AJ and SC 2 year deals that tells us how incompetent they are. Get someone into our club that can coach a groups of players willing to learn. 

[chapelxnomore]

Should the manager's position become available, I would throw Shelley Kerr's hat in the ring, with Andy Thomson as assistant. Then lazy journalists can have QUEEN OF THE SOUTH, as their headline ad nauseum.