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The Queen of the South Thread

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Hearing more & more people saying they won’t be back until the Chairman and his sidekick are away. Really sad situation

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Thats totally the point if the fans believe in what we are doing and are being entertained and seeing signs of hope and progress they will attend. As it is we are going nowhere with the current gaffer and there is a staleness and apathy about the place. We have not beat 1 decent team at home. Naysmiths signings have in the main been wrong. Even when hes got them right he didn't utilise them to their potential. For example Kane was constantly in and out for the majority of his spell, but near the end he finally showed what he could do but by that time he was going anyway. There is certainly far more potential for the club to get way more than around 1000 home fans especially when u consider it was for a "big game" against the future champions St Mirren. Basically Naysmith has to go. We are brutal to watch and are losing money due to fans being driven away. We cant keep relying on the hardcore, we need to get in the floaters who could become regulars, but the only way to do that is to get in a new man in charge. Hopefully someone whos philosophy is to attack and play attractive football. McIntyre or McNamara anyone?


In all our time in the Championship league I have never known such apathy from the local support. Yes we have had to endure some pretty turgid seasons but we have invariably retained a hardcore support of 1400+ and a decent away support. In that time we have actually had some squads that have been a lot poorer than this one so why the lack of interest?

My theory on Football Managers is that if they are going to be any good at this level they start to make an impact pretty quickly - usually within a few months. Even if results are modest you start to get a sense of optimism with a progressive Manager.With GN he has been here for about 16 months now - does anybody honestly feel that he is capable of really making a difference? To me he doesn't seem able to motivate the players and from a tactical perspective it all looks so predictable and lacking in flair and imagination.

It is not easy to find these "game changing" Managers but when you do you can seriously outperform your budget/status - Killie and Livvy are the two best examples at present.

I don't think we will be offering two and a half year managerial contracts in the future - that has left us in a no win situation.

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6 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said:

 


In all our time in the Championship league I have never known such apathy from the local support. Yes we have had to endure some pretty turgid seasons but we have invariably retained a hardcore support of 1400+ and a decent away support. In that time we have actually had some squads that have been a lot poorer than this one so why the lack of interest?

My theory on Football Managers is that if they are going to be any good at this level they start to make an impact pretty quickly - usually within a few months. Even if results are modest you start to get a sense of optimism with a progressive Manager.With GN he has been here for about 16 months now - does anybody honestly feel that he is capable of really making a difference? To me he doesn't seem able to motivate the players and from a tactical perspective it all looks so predictable and lacking in flair and imagination.

It is not easy to find these "game changing" Managers but when you do you can seriously outperform your budget/status - Killie and Livvy are the two best examples at present.

I don't think we will be offering two and a half year managerial contracts in the future - that has left us in a no win situation.

 

I really don't understand why we offered such a long contract this time.  The last few had been rolling ones after a year, so why we departed from that in appointing someone with a mediocre record at a lower level, I don't know.

 

I'd add St Mirren to your list of clubs where a managerial change has had a huge impact, although their relative budget will be better than those of the others you mention.  It's a good example of what you're on about though,  because the improvement in results was not immediate, but once underway, it's been incredibly sustained.

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3 hours ago, kirkyblue2 said:

There was a thread about JT on Saturday night which was removed, don’t think we can discuss it.

Must have had instructions.

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1 hour ago, Steeplechat said:

Hearing more & more people saying they won’t be back until the Chairman and his sidekick are away. Really sad situation

Is the sidekick GN or one of the other directors?

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On looking at Naysmith's managerial performances with East Fife and Queens, here are the up-to-date stats:

East Fife November 2013 to 6 December 2016

130 games in-charge, 50 games Won, 27 games Draws, 53 games Lost. Win Percentage; just under 39%

Queen of the South 6 December 2016 to Present

65 games in-charge, 22 games Won, 20 games Draws, 23 games Lost. Win Percentage; just under 34%

 

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27 minutes ago, NOTS said:

On looking at Naysmith's managerial performances with East Fife and Queens, here are the up-to-date stats:

East Fife November 2013 to 6 December 2016

130 games in-charge, 50 games Won, 27 games Draws, 53 games Lost. Win Percentage; just under 39%

Queen of the South 6 December 2016 to Present

65 games in-charge, 22 games Won, 20 games Draws, 23 games Lost. Win Percentage; just under 34%

 

Of the 22 wins, 10 have been against teams who were either lower league or on their way there (6 League 1, 4 League 2). And all but one of them part-time.

Of the remainder, 3 have been against Dumbarton, who are part-time.

That leaves 9 and 3 of those were v St.Mirren and Falkirk when they were terrible. The other 6 were 2 v Morton, 2 v Dundee U, 1 v Livi and 1 v Dunfermline.

 

Edited by Flash

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I really don't understand why we offered such a long contract this time.  The last few had been rolling ones after a year, so why we departed from that in appointing someone with a mediocre record at a lower level, I don't know.
 
I'd add St Mirren to your list of clubs where a managerial change has had a huge impact, although their relative budget will be better than those of the others you mention.  It's a good example of what you're on about though,  because the improvement in results was not immediate, but once underway, it's been incredibly sustained.


Agree Jack Ross is a good example - it wasn't that long ago that he was at Alloa and looking for a step up. These progressive types do exist but if you pick the wrong one you need to be able to walk away from the arrangement by only being tied to a one year rolling contract.

In the case of GN he had done nothing at managerial level to warrant anything more than that but I can only assume that he pushed for it.The mistake was not necessarily appointing GN but offering a long term deal. BOD left with a difficult decision to make now - if the drop in spectator interest continues the buy out payment might be the cheaper option.

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3 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said:

 


Agree Jack Ross is a good example - it wasn't that long ago that he was at Alloa and looking for a step up. These progressive types do exist but if you pick the wrong one you need to be able to walk away from the arrangement by only being tied to a one year rolling contract.

In the case of GN he had done nothing at managerial level to warrant anything more than that but I can only assume that he pushed for it.The mistake was not necessarily appointing GN but offering a long term deal. BOD left with a difficult decision to make now - if the drop in spectator interest continues the buy out payment might be the cheaper option.

 

The decision at the end of the season will be the same as it would have been if he had been on a one year rolling contract. 

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7 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said:

 


Agree Jack Ross is a good example - it wasn't that long ago that he was at Alloa and looking for a step up. These progressive types do exist but if you pick the wrong one you need to be able to walk away from the arrangement by only being tied to a one year rolling contract.

In the case of GN he had done nothing at managerial level to warrant anything more than that but I can only assume that he pushed for it.The mistake was not necessarily appointing GN but offering a long term deal. BOD left with a difficult decision to make now - if the drop in spectator interest continues the buy out payment might be the cheaper option.

 

It might prove in time to be the cheaper option, but the difficulty is that of course there's no way of knowing that in advance.  

I really don't rate GN or think he's been a good appointment at all.  However, we're staying up and probably finishing somewhere close to where our budget indicates we should.  Getting rid carries no guarantees whatever of a boost to gates.  I tend to think tbh that any direct impact there is likely to be minimal. 

We've changed once or twice lately when there was no absolute obligation to do so and it's hard to argue that it's worked.  I can't for the life of me see a change of manager coming anytime soon.

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1 hour ago, Rjc-1988 said:

 


Agree Jack Ross is a good example - it wasn't that long ago that he was at Alloa and looking for a step up. These progressive types do exist but if you pick the wrong one you need to be able to walk away from the arrangement by only being tied to a one year rolling contract.

In the case of GN he had done nothing at managerial level to warrant anything more than that but I can only assume that he pushed for it.The mistake was not necessarily appointing GN but offering a long term deal. BOD left with a difficult decision to make now - if the drop in spectator interest continues the buy out payment might be the cheaper option.

 

Can't compare Jack Ross to Gary Naysmith .

Ross is at a massive club compared to Queens.

Ross like most of the club's in the Championship  will have 3 times the budget Naysmith has .

Never going to happen but would Jack Ross do a better job at Queens than Gary Naysmith with the budget he has to work with ..

James Fowler never did a better job than Naysmith he must be amazed at how much Ross has to spend compared to what he had at Queens . ..

Huge costly gamble to get rid of Naysmith could we attract someone better last time on the shortlist was Iain Durrant and Barry Ferguson  are they better than Naysmith 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Northfield 53 said:

Can't compare Jack Ross to Gary Naysmith .

Ross is at a massive club compared to Queens.

Ross like most of the club's in the Championship  will have 3 times the budget Naysmith has .

Never going to happen but would Jack Ross do a better job at Queens than Gary Naysmith with the budget he has to work with ..

James Fowler never did a better job than Naysmith he must be amazed at how much Ross has to spend compared to what he had at Queens . ..

Huge costly gamble to get rid of Naysmith could we attract someone better last time on the shortlist was Iain Durrant and Barry Ferguson  are they better than Naysmith 

 

 

 

Please God, no............

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I am not completely convinced by the budget argument - it is a huge consideration but I still think the underlying quality of the Manager is almost equally important within reason.

Dundee United have the biggest budget by far and they are in a distant 4th spot.

Falkirk have the third biggest budget and they are 7th.

Inverness have the 4th biggest budget and they are 8th.

Livvy have the 8th biggest budget and they are second.

The point I am making is that it is entirely possible to seriously outperform your perceived status if you can unearth a gem of a Manager. Equally a big budget will not necessarily turn a poor Manager into a success. That is evident from the foregoing Championship stats.

It is not easy to find these individuals before they become "hot property" but it is possible.

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11 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said:


It is not easy to find these individuals before they become "hot property" but it is possible.
 

Yes, but even then it involves a degree of guesswork and relies on a degree of luck.

St Mirren had spent some time getting it wrong before they got it right.

I agree with your point, but I think it's a terribly inexact science.

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18 minutes ago, weeredbook said:

Copy of the letter on facebook page .It is going to get messy .

What do you mean?

Are you referring to a letter sent to JT by the club?

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Before consigning Leighfield to the Goalkeepers Graveyard just look back to Calum Antell now with Edinburgh City !!!!! Give the Lad a chance it's not as if we will be challenging for the SPFL Premier League any time soon he will be ready if and when we do.

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45 minutes ago, weeredbook said:

Copy of the letter on facebook page .It is going to get messy .

Get it posted, could do with a laugh.

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