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The Queen of the South Thread

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No it isnt that simple, but for me this is, far and away, the most important part of the job. For a club like Queens dealing with the media is a fairly insignificant part of a managers job. We're not a Celtic or Rangers or Man Utd or Chelsea where every word is poured over at length in the back pages and the media are constantly clamouring for stories. We're a small club who even the local media are fairly disinterested in. Not saying we couldnt do better in that area, but I dont believe its what a manager should be judged on

See, I don't think it is really. Most clubs have coaches for that sort of job, which was effectively what Brannigan was when he came here and eventually fell into the manager's job by accident. I doubt either he or the Board really expected him to be the next manager when he took over as caretaker last season. I think both sides expected him to hold the reins until a new manager was found. However, results were so good he couldn't really be ignored for it at the end of the season. He's a very good coach undeniably and clearly the players are right behind him. I think you could question his tactics but his results were ok all season. Not as great as his big fans would have you believe, not as bad as his naysayers would claim. As Monkey Tennis says, in the normal course of events his results haven't been by any means miraculous but neither have they been bad enough that people would call for his departure. However, a football manager's job certainly does involve a lot more than the training pitch and dugout. It has to in the modern environment and I fundamentally don't think he's good enough at the rest of the job. He says himself he hates the rest of the job. His media work has been woeful regardless of whether that actually has any impact on crowds and players, opponents, etc. (and I think it has some impact at least). And he hasn't really had a chance to prove himself particularly special or not in contract dealings. He didn't really have much scope to do a lot with the squad last summer and certainly not since.

Whatevers going on with the players contracts, theres something not right. Several players, and an agent, have said as much, several times, on twitter and facebook. Not saying KBs motives were entirely selfless but it seems pretty obvious that whats going on this season isnt the same as what went on last season. Given some of the announcements from other clubs, it doesnt seem like its whats going on at other clubs too.

Well no it isn't. I don't think anyone's saying it is. Clearly it's not usual to have so few player under contract at the end of the season (though looking around the division, not as unusual as KB and co would have you think either now) nor for the better ones not to even have had an offer yet. That's what the players and agents are moaning about. They have a right to. Again, it should have been handled before now, or at least this past week. I certainly presume it will be dealt with this coming week.

However the point about Brannigan was the claim he made that it was unfair on players and never happens any other year when quite clearly that's bollocks. Lots of players are out of contract every summer and lots of them don't know whether they'll get a new deal until after the last ball is kicked. There's nothing inherently unfair or even unusual in that. It's the nature of a job where employment is by short term fixed length contract. It's no more unfair that Bob Harris and Paul Burns hadn't been spoken to before the last game than it was that Stewart Kean and Tony McParland (to name but two) hadn't been spoken to, by Brannigan, before the last game last season. For him to suggest it is was downright misleading.

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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While it's not unfair, you couldn't have a stranger comparison. They hadn't been spoken to as they were getting released, Harris and Burns you would imagine would be regarded as must signs by KB.

But that's the point. You can't decide whether it's unfair on the players in principle by whether or not you consider them any good. That's why I used the examples I did. It's either intrinsically unfair or it isn't. As you say, it isn't.

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I dont think we can afford for it to be "unlikely". Both the BoD (well Rae, as hes the only one we ever hear from in public) and next seasons manager, whoever that is, have to do a better job of communicating with the fans and promoting a more positive image of the club.

We're not actually that far apart here.

I agree that we can't really carry on allowing the club to be projected this way.

I also think that dug-out change is more likely than boardroom change.

KB's spell in charge of the team has not been so bad that he must go, but it's not been so wonderful that he must stay either.

If we agree that we can't go on this way, then either KB needs to undergo some sort of Damascan conversion, or he must leave.

That's not to say the board are blameless - they're not. It is realistic though.

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We're not actually that far apart here.

I agree that we can't really carry on allowing the club to be projected this way.

I also think that dug-out change is more likely than boardroom change.

KB's spell in charge of the team has not been so bad that he must go, but it's not been so wonderful that he must stay either.

If we agree that we can't go on this way, then either KB needs to undergo some sort of Damascan conversion, or he must leave.

That's not to say the board are blameless - they're not. It is realistic though.

I can't disagree with too much of that. There were times during the season when I thought that on the pitch at least Brannigan had proved himself to be a good manager. I still maintain that given the lack of resources at the club, possibly partly brought on by Brannigan's own negativity keeping crowds away, we could not realistically have expected anyone else to secure us a higher finish than fourth in the league. There were other times when the football became one-dimensional and he persisted with playing Lilley in a back three when it wasn't always necessary. However, his public pronouncements have not helped although have perhaps highlighted a lack of vision and strategy at the club. The club as a whole simply needs to get better at communicating with the fans. As for Brannigan's own future, I cannot see him undergoing a 'Damascan conversion', so I think Rae has little alternative but to look for another manager. Brannigan's coaching ability should see him land another job, although I doubt he'll get a gig as top man at another club in this division. For me that has more to do with his character flaws than any perceived lack of ability in a football sense.

I would not be devastated if he stayed, nor am I clamouring for his departure. I just think he has rather talked himself out of a job.

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See, I don't think it is really. Most clubs have coaches for that sort of job, which was effectively what Brannigan was when he came here and eventually fell into the manager's job by accident. I doubt either he or the Board really expected him to be the next manager when he took over as caretaker last season. I think both sides expected him to hold the reins until a new manager was found. However, results were so good he couldn't really be ignored for it at the end of the season. He's a very good coach undeniably and clearly the players are right behind him. I think you could question his tactics but his results were ok all season. Not as great as his big fans would have you believe, not as bad as his naysayers would claim. As Monkey Tennis says, in the normal course of events his results haven't been by any means miraculous but neither have they been bad enough that people would call for his departure. However, a football manager's job certainly does involve a lot more than the training pitch and dugout. It has to in the modern environment and I fundamentally don't think he's good enough at the rest of the job. He says himself he hates the rest of the job. His media work has been woeful regardless of whether that actually has any impact on crowds and players, opponents, etc. (and I think it has some impact at least). And he hasn't really had a chance to prove himself particularly special or not in contract dealings. He didn't really have much scope to do a lot with the squad last summer and certainly not since.

I never said the other things were totally unimportant but, at a club like Queens, finding players, youth development, working within a budget and putting a team out each week are far, far more important than any media work.

Brannigan hasnt given a direct interview, that Ive seen anyway, for months now. Has anyone even noticed?

Well no it isn't. I don't think anyone's saying it is. Clearly it's not usual to have so few player under contract at the end of the season (though looking around the division, not as unusual as KB and co would have you think either now) nor for the better ones not to even have had an offer yet. That's what the players and agents are moaning about. They have a right to. Again, it should have been handled before now, or at least this past week. I certainly presume it will be dealt with this coming week.

However the point about Brannigan was the claim he made that it was unfair on players and never happens any other year when quite clearly that's bollocks. Lots of players are out of contract every summer and lots of them don't know whether they'll get a new deal until after the last ball is kicked. There's nothing inherently unfair or even unusual in that. It's the nature of a job where employment is by short term fixed length contract. It's no more unfair that Bob Harris and Paul Burns hadn't been spoken to before the last game than it was that Stewart Kean and Tony McParland (to name but two) hadn't been spoken to, by Brannigan, before the last game last season. For him to suggest it is was downright misleading.

I got the impression that Brannigan was complaining about the uncertainty of "when" players would be talked to, rather than the specifics of who had and who hadnt. I guess most players will presume that they'll find something out after the final game, if not sooner. None of our players had heard anything at all and had, more than once, been given timelines which then werent kept.

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As a St Mirren fan, just came to this thread to have a wee read about Paul Burns, but while I'm here....

David Weatherston's parents are pally with my aunt and uncle. Last I'd heard (must have been last year sometime) he wasn't happy at all. Wasn't getting a game, but more than that, Brannigan was picking on him. Referred to him as 'the Clarkston boy' and didn't seem to think that someone of his background (university education, etc) should be playing football. Couldn't believe it when I was told; Brannigan sounds hideous. Don't know if David ended up going to the board about it, but he did receive support from some of the more senior players; "Don't let him get to you, etc, etc".

As I said, it was awhile ago I heard about that, but unless there's been a drastic change I don't think David will accept a new contract at Queens if Brannigan stays.

Edited by Moriarty

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As a St Mirren fan, just came to this thread to have a wee read about Paul Burns, but while I'm here....

..............

If and its a BIG if, you think Mcauslands a player, then prepare for the new messiah.

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As a St Mirren fan, just came to this thread to have a wee read about Paul Burns, but while I'm here....

David Weatherston's parents are pally with my aunt and uncle. Last I'd heard (must have been last year sometime) he wasn't happy at all. Wasn't getting a game, but more than that, Brannigan was picking on him. Referred to him as 'the Clarkston boy' and didn't seem to think that someone of his background (university education, etc) should be playing football. Couldn't believe it when I was told; Brannigan sounds hideous. Don't know if David ended up going to the board about it, but he did receive support from some of the more senior players; "Don't let him get to you, etc, etc".

As I said, it was awhile ago I heard about that, but unless there's been a drastic change I don't think David will accept a new contract at Queens if Brannigan stays.

That's really interesting and pretty credible sounding.

Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's made comments in a public forum about Weatherston lacking 'heart' before.

He's also slevered some pish in the papers about his admiration for teams composed of "good, working class lads" before.

His version of class war through football management is just one more facet of his self-consciously boorish and moronic approach to the job.

It's not just that he behaves this way; it's that he's so bloody proud of it.

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Will be interested to see what happens with Weatherston anyway. Been following him since his Queen's Park days. Because he knew David was local to Paisley, Billy Stark phoned up Gus MacPherson to see if he'd like to take him from being amateur at QP. MacPherson said he wasn't interested.

After that, he was actually offered a deal at Dundee Utd by Craig Levein, but was persuaded by Derek McInnes to sign for St Johnstone when they were in the 1st. Thought that first team football there was a better option than United's reserves. Ended up he never got a decent run in the team at McDiarmid.

At Queens, from what I've read, his best run of form and goals was just before Chisholm left the club? Then Brannigan comes in and his career seems to have stalled again.

Probably should have signed for United 4 years ago!

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As a St Mirren fan, just came to this thread to have a wee read about Paul Burns, but while I'm here....

David Weatherston's parents are pally with my aunt and uncle. Last I'd heard (must have been last year sometime) he wasn't happy at all. Wasn't getting a game, but more than that, Brannigan was picking on him. Referred to him as 'the Clarkston boy' and didn't seem to think that someone of his background (university education, etc) should be playing football. Couldn't believe it when I was told; Brannigan sounds hideous. Don't know if David ended up going to the board about it, but he did receive support from some of the more senior players; "Don't let him get to you, etc, etc".

As I said, it was awhile ago I heard about that, but unless there's been a drastic change I don't think David will accept a new contract at Queens if Brannigan stays.

I don't think there's any doubt that Brannigan did not have a lot of time for Weatherston. Despite moaning interminably about how small his squad was he managed to marginalise his contribution for most of the season. This for a player whose pace terrifies most defenders and in a team where pace is more evident by its absence than its presence.

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As a St Mirren fan, just came to this thread to have a wee read about Paul Burns, but while I'm here....

..............

If and its a BIG if, you think Mcauslands a player, then prepare for the new messiah.

There are very few Buds who think McAusland is a player. Most if not all were shocked when we resigned him and most are shocked every time he plays. Nothing against the lad but he hasn't shown much to suggest he will turn into an SPL footballer as he lacks many basic skills. He can do a basic defending job in a backs-to-the-wall kind of way, but cannot pass to save himself and gets caught out constantly. He will have to go some to win over any support from the terraces assuming we had terraces.

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No debt.

I think the precise phrase was no "traditional bank debt". :rolleyes:

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I think the precise phrase was no "traditional bank debt".

That is the 1st of many players who will be leaving Queens.Colin McMenamin has gone to Morton on a 2 year deal :(

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That is the 1st of many players who will be leaving Queens.Colin McMenamin has gone to Morton on a 2 year deal :(

Nearly right. He's off to Ross County.

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How many players are not contracted at Cowdenbeath? any players worth going after?

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Rumours of his handing contracts to 7 of the youth players who are too old for the 19's now, they would be Black, Degnan, Orsi, O'Hear, Smilie, McGowan and McShane IMO. Would also like to think Gavin Reilly has a deal of some kind for next year with him being able to play at 19's again and having done well on loan at Gretna.

Also Skyline says Russell Parker and Kevin Holt are contracted, though neither of them have played for the first team.

Gavin Reilly signed a two year deal last summer.

Neither Holt nor Parker has "played" for the first team but Holt was on the bench a few times last season without actually getting on. I think he ended up the only one of the youths to make the bench but not get on the pitch at some point.

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:rolleyes:

Textbook. I knew he was involved.

Uh huh, I'm sure you did. I was clarifying the position for anyone else interested who maybe didn't.

You didn't appear to be aware Reilly was under contract though despite both the OS saying so all season and my post in the squads thread saying it already (even though you pulled other info from that post to include in yours). :P

Edited by Skyline Drifter

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I wouldn't keep Smillie or McGowan too be honest, not seen enough of O'Hear.

I don't really have anything to base any opinion of them on. I haven't seen the 19's as I don't have time to watch them. I barely get time to see the first team these days! McGowan started two games and was a ten minute sub in another for the first team but I didn't see the neutral game at Stirling so I only have just over an hour's football to judge him on, most of which was against a Raith side who clearly weren't terribly interested. Smillie's had 4 sub appearances but I think they were all single figure minutes and he barely touched the ball. Not sure if I saw all of them either since I haven't checked which games they were.

O'Hear was reasonably highly rated at St Johnstone (though it has to be borne in mind they still released him) but I've seen even less of him.

Black, Degnan, McShane are a given as far as contract offers are concerned. Orsi is a given presuming they are happy enough with his prospects of recovery from serious injury.

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Now on official site Derek Holmes , David Lilley , Willie McLaren has been released

With McMenamin already away and Burns also going thats 5 out.

No mention of any of the other out of contract players or the coaching staff.

I am a little concerened that the BOD are making playing decisions that really should be left to a Manager

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