The Queen of the South thread

[19QOS19]

Arbroath pay more part time than we do full time. Some of our players are on less than £300 a week full time. AJ has said that in many occasions. Something more embarrassing from the club is players being asked to travel up to Cove this weekend in their own transport at their own expense as club is paying hotel and meals. So unprofessional it is ridiculous. Arbroath also have a very settled squad for last few years because players play for the manger and less chop and changing every year. Almost all experienced players never want to play for AJ the next season. He is the issue!!!

I won't pretend to know anything about our finances but we if we are paying players less than £300 a week in FT employment I'm more concerned ScotGov will be on our case. That's less than a week's worth on minimum wage.

They must make use of some kind of loophole for our reserve players mind you so perhaps it's the same with the first team squad...

[Otis Blue]

Jesus where to start .....?  Friday's performance was as woeful as I've seen from a Queens team in years (and there's been plenty to choose from as we all know).  Only Cochrane and Gibson seemed to have a clue what to do.  There was no energy in the side, and we lacked basic organisation, and we looked a dispirited (and already relegated) lot.  So what are the issues/options?

Budget:

- I've surmised in the recent past that we've trimmed our playing budget over the last couple of years due to the financial uncertainties surrounding the pandemic, and that could still be a factor

- AJ has said that we have one of the lowest budgets in the division, and there's probably truth in that, and most on here would doubt that not to be the case

- the budget isn't helped by dwindling crowds - but of course its a Catch-22 situation isn't it?  Poor performances year on year produce a downturn in attendances which equates to smaller budgets and hence a poorer squad.  A difficult circle to break and yet still keep the books in the black

Full Time or Part-time:

- Arbroath are a shining example that a great coach/motivator and a coach with an expert eye for a "player" can produce a part-time side which can outperform full time sides.  But how many Dick Campbell's are out there, and for how many season's can such a coach keep that success going?

- Despite the Arbroath example, I think the general consensus would be that to ensure longevity in the second tier, you really need to have a full-time squad and a decent coach.

Constant squad re-building:

- I'm not sure this should be laid at AJ's door as being responsible.  This is probably more down to the budget/strategy dictated by the BOD.

- But you don't have to be a genius to figure out that whilst we got away with a total re-build last season, the chances of getting away with it year on year aren't very good (regardless of who is manager) - That said, I think I'm right in saying that we might actually have one or two players being retained at the close of this season .... for a change.

AJ's coaching/influence:

- I've no idea what goes on behind the scenes in training/coaching sessions.  But whenever I listen to AJ's post match interviews or pre-match pieces, I don't get the feeling that this is someone who is going to motivate or inspire the players.  Mostly its a case of the guys have got to do better defending these set pieces ...... we cannae go on shooting ourselves in the foot .... moan, moan, etc etc.

- A manager/coach has to have many attributes at this level: tactical nous, organisational ability, eye for a "player", man-manager, motivator, be well connected .... and its a bloody hard job to find someone with all of the right traits, and who is available, and of course who we could actually afford.

- On Friday night, ICT at least looked like a team that knew what they were doing and how to go about it.

Benefits of a sojurn in League One:

- This has been mentioned recently in the thread, and there's some merits in this especially if you think back to our last season outside of the Championship.

- However, I'd suggest that the bottom two leagues are a different beast now (as Falkirk would no doubt tell you).  The season we were down the standard was poor and we were lucky to have the core of a decently talented squad, a combination that enabled us to skoosh that league.

- Now you have ambitious "new clubs" in there with fairly large budgets and ambitions to match (Cove Rangers, the new Queens Park and the likes of Kelty Hearts albeit lower down). 

- Plus of course the room for error is much reduced with the dangerous risk of the L2 trapdoor.

The pitch:

- Suffice to say that it does look dreadful

- From what I read, the original economics argument behind its introduction appears to lacking credibility now.  Of course I don't know the facts here, I'm only guessing

- But it doesn't appear to be helping our cause re the product on view, and probably doesn't help in attracting decent players

 

I guess I've just spent 20 minutes summarising stuff that all Queens fans already know, so apologies for that.  I just wish I knew some answers ........ such as suddenly finding a "sugar daddy" investor (a la Roy McGregor), but we all know how that sort of thing can end up a few years down the line ...... don't we Gretna?

[Manwithnoball]

Totally agree with Otis Blue's post. If we go down we will never come back up as this BOD has no interest in the long term stability of our club, they will just look at it as a way of saving more money. The idiots in charge decided to give AJ and SC 2 year deals that tells us how incompetent they are. Get someone into our club that can coach a groups of players willing to learn. 

[chapelxnomore]

Should the manager's position become available, I would throw Shelley Kerr's hat in the ring, with Andy Thomson as assistant. Then lazy journalists can have QUEEN OF THE SOUTH, as their headline ad nauseum. 

[DeeGeeOneHamer]

I do not for one minute think any can question the BoD have anything but the best of intentions for Queens.  Of course they have the long term stability of the club as their number one interest, they have that duty as directors.  Everyone of us can sit and snipe and say we'd do this and that but we can do that with zero accountability or responsibility.

 

I was a fan of the 2 year deals for the management and players, I felt after years of constant rebuilding every May and June it would give us a sound base from which to grow.  Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case presently and we are looking down the barrell of relegation. 

 

Friday night was one of the worst performances I have seen in recent memory, it was clueless, it lacked desire and you'd see better performances on the SoS League over any weekend.  That has to be pivotal performance, frank discussions need to be had with the BoD and management.  To embarass themselves in such a manner on national TV is a disgrace. 

[Guest Flash]

15 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

I won't pretend to know anything about our finances but we if we are paying players less than £300 a week in FT employment I'm more concerned ScotGov will be on our case. That's less than a week's worth on minimum wage.

They must make use of some kind of loophole for our reserve players mind you so perhaps it's the same with the first team squad...

I think the minimum wage works on hourly rates. I don’t know how many hours a week they work. Judging by Friday night, it isn’t hellish many.

[Rjc-1988]

Otis - that is a pretty accurate summation of the issues. I have no idea if an “early release termination” clause exists in the CLUB: MANAGER contract but if it doesn’t I don’t see the club forking out for a significant compensation payment.

That said I think despite everybody’s reservations (including my own) we are not noticeably weaker than the vast majority of our opponents.

I strongly believe that we have to dispense with the isolated striker scenario - it is the cause of so many of our problems :-

- we allow opposing CBs to stroll effortlessly into our territory
- we sit too deep and can’t get bodies forward quickly enough
- we are far too passive when we don’t have the ball but we are capable of playing some fast attacking football on the break
- our two wider forwards usually Connelly and say Paton spend far too much time tracking back and not getting close to the central striker leaving Cameron chasing shadows and burning aimless energy
- our midfield needs to be much more assertive

Starting at Cove we should concentrate on an attacking philosophy - we have nippy, skilful types up front but we need a partnership and we need to find a formation that gets our potential match winners on the pitch in the right roles.

Due to a poor set up we are going down tamely but with some tweaking and personnel changes we are more than capable of avoiding the dreaded bottom 2. Not the most ambitious target admittedly but a decent cup run would help. Several players have had more game time than their displays have warranted - East, Roy,Todd and Cochrane need to come back into contention (if fit) and we need to work out where to play Nditi.

[qos1990]

Otis - that is a pretty accurate summation of the issues. I have no idea if an “early release termination” clause exists in the CLUB: MANAGER contract but if it doesn’t I don’t see the club forking out for a significant compensation payment.

That said I think despite everybody’s reservations (including my own) we are not noticeably weaker than the vast majority of our opponents.

I strongly believe that we have to dispense with the isolated striker scenario - it is the cause of so many of our problems :-

- we allow opposing CBs to stroll effortlessly into our territory
- we sit too deep and can’t get bodies forward quickly enough
- we are far too passive when we don’t have the ball but we are capable of playing some fast attacking football on the break
- our two wider forwards usually Connelly and say Paton spend far too much time tracking back and not getting close to the central striker leaving Cameron chasing shadows and burning aimless energy
- our midfield needs to be much more assertive

Starting at Cove we should concentrate on an attacking philosophy - we have nippy, skilful types up front but we need a partnership and we need to find a formation that gets our potential match winners on the pitch in the right roles.

Due to a poor set up we are going down tamely but with some tweaking and personnel changes we are more than capable of avoiding the dreaded bottom 2. Not the most ambitious target admittedly but a decent cup run would help. Several players have had more game time than their displays have warranted - East, Roy,Todd and Cochrane need to come back into contention (if fit) and we need to work out where to play Nditi.

Nditi plays centre half, it’s not we it’s that manager of us over complicating again

[Manwithnoball]

Just now, qos1990 said:

Nditi plays centre half, it’s not we it’s that manager of us over complicating again

Without doubt. No midfield his first touch is a pass then a tackle

[qos1990]

Without doubt. No midfield his first touch is a pass then a tackle

Our best centre half and we punt him from pillar to post. Mental playing him left back Friday and Debayo a left back to trade at centre half

[the_palmy_pie]

8 minutes ago, qos1990 said:

Our best centre half and we punt him from pillar to post. Mental playing him left back Friday and Debayo a left back to trade at centre half

Personally think Debayo should be left back —- in the dressing room. 

[SUPERSOUTH]

20 minutes ago, the_palmy_pie said:

Personally think Debayo should be left back —- in the dressing room. 

Think surely he wil be at cove back 4 of Gibson Nditi McKay & Cooper 

[the_palmy_pie]

4 hours ago, DeeGeeOneHamer said:

I do not for one minute think any can question the BoD have anything but the best of intentions for Queens.  Of course they have the long term stability of the club as their number one interest, they have that duty as directors.  Everyone of us can sit and snipe and say we'd do this and that but we can do that with zero accountability or responsibility.

 

I was a fan of the 2 year deals for the management and players, I felt after years of constant rebuilding every May and June it would give us a sound base from which to grow.  Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case presently and we are looking down the barrell of relegation. 

 

Friday night was one of the worst performances I have seen in recent memory, it was clueless, it lacked desire and you'd see better performances on the SoS League over any weekend.  That has to be pivotal performance, frank discussions need to be had with the BoD and management.  To embarass themselves in such a manner on national TV is a disgrace. 

There’s no doubt they have the best interest of the club at heart but what’s so frustrating is the continual lack of communications from the BOD. 
Hewitson admitted at the last AGM that the PR was poor but has since done nothing about it. 
Craig Patterson says as much as a Burtons dummy and god only knows where the club would be today without the support of the Blount family. 
Mark continues to be the only decent and approachable board member. 

 

They have though backed the manager this season and we’ve no longer go into games with a bench full of kids but the performances on the pitch mostly are dreadful. That’s down the AJ. 

[Guest Flash]

1 hour ago, Rjc-1988 said:

Otis - that is a pretty accurate summation of the issues. I have no idea if an “early release termination” clause exists in the CLUB: MANAGER contract but if it doesn’t I don’t see the club forking out for a significant compensation payment.

That said I think despite everybody’s reservations (including my own) we are not noticeably weaker than the vast majority of our opponents.

I strongly believe that we have to dispense with the isolated striker scenario - it is the cause of so many of our problems :-

- we allow opposing CBs to stroll effortlessly into our territory
- we sit too deep and can’t get bodies forward quickly enough
- we are far too passive when we don’t have the ball but we are capable of playing some fast attacking football on the break
- our two wider forwards usually Connelly and say Paton spend far too much time tracking back and not getting close to the central striker leaving Cameron chasing shadows and burning aimless energy
- our midfield needs to be much more assertive

Starting at Cove we should concentrate on an attacking philosophy - we have nippy, skilful types up front but we need a partnership and we need to find a formation that gets our potential match winners on the pitch in the right roles.

Due to a poor set up we are going down tamely but with some tweaking and personnel changes we are more than capable of avoiding the dreaded bottom 2. Not the most ambitious target admittedly but a decent cup run would help. Several players have had more game time than their displays have warranted - East, Roy,Todd and Cochrane need to come back into contention (if fit) and we need to work out where to play Nditi.
 

Agree with this.
The midfield stand back admiring the opposition. They just look so soft and easy to play through. I don’t mean they should be kicking people but they look like they’re out for a wee jog and don’t really want to join in.
The other thing about the lone striker is that we lump it forward and there is nobody close enough to get any flick ons. Friday night very often consisted of a few short passes along the back then, whoooosh, followed by them jogging about the pitch watching ICT with the ball again. I’ve no idea whether Cameron is any good or not. I can’t imagine many centre forwards who could make anything of that carry on.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Flash

[Rjc-1988]

Agree with this.
The midfield stand back admiring the opposition. They just look so soft and easy to play through. I don’t mean they should be kicking people but they look like they’re out for a wee jog and don’t really want to join in.
The other thing about the lone striker is that we lump it forward and there is nobody close enough to get any flick ons. Friday night very often consisted of a few short passes along the back then, whoooosh, followed by them jogging about the pitch watching ICT with the ball again. I’ve no idea whether Cameron is any good or not. I can’t imagine many centre forwards who could make anything of that carry on.

L
I agree - we have started the Man City tactics of playing out from the back.......McKay and Debayo often picking passes from their own 6 yard box. Hugely risky and gaining very little in the overall scheme of things. Very often culminates in a series of short passes deep in their own defensive territory and then a chipped ball forward from one of the CBs that the keeper could have played in the first place with zero risk!!!!! To my knowledge we haven’t lost a cheap goal from this as yet but it is probably only a matter of time until the ball takes an unfortunate bobble or someone panics under pressure. I am all for us playing football but at our level, I don’t get the intended upside of this tactic. I would much rather we channelled our energies on pressing the ball “in packs” high up the pitch and trying to make it difficult for the opposition to enjoy cheap possession at our expense.

[Greenacres]

Suppose the only thing we can take from the Cove  game is we are still in the Cup.

Queens have 3 home games now surely if we lose them all AJ must go .

It is hard going supporting Queens just now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nomad]

Been supporting since 1969. Now just bored. Heading back to nowhere. Maybe take up golf on a Saturday. It's too much like hard work for me at my age.  

[A-Mac]

Cove might be top of League 1, but if we are trying to be a serious Championship club we need to be beating them.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

5 hours ago, nomad said:

Been supporting since 1969. Now just bored. Heading back to nowhere. Maybe take up golf on a Saturday. It's too much like hard work for me at my age.  

I can understand where your coming from. I must be around your age and I never thought I'd be so  disenchanted watching Queens. Even when Gus was in charge I tried to get to every game home and away but now it's home games only with the odd close away games. Maybe the interruption of Covid stopping fans from attending took a bit of the appetite away, watching streams just became too easy. We're now living from season to season, having to build new squads every time, players don't have any affinity to the fans or club and the fans haven't time to build an affinity with the players, fighting relegation is now the norm. I understand the Board of Directors have a duty to run the club responsibly, keep spending in check, etc, but there must also be a sign of ambition, a feeling that they are at least  trying to build up to something better than just barely surviving as a full time Championship team. Sadly we are just treading water, there's an apparent lethargy right throughout the Club and its now spread to the supporters and who can honestly blame more and more for losing interest. 

[Slipmat]

9 hours ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

I can understand where your coming from. I must be around your age and I never thought I'd be so  disenchanted watching Queens. Even when Gus was in charge I tried to get to every game home and away but now it's home games only with the odd close away games. Maybe the interruption of Covid stopping fans from attending took a bit of the appetite away, watching streams just became too easy. We're now living from season to season, having to build new squads every time, players don't have any affinity to the fans or club and the fans haven't time to build an affinity with the players, fighting relegation is now the norm. I understand the Board of Directors have a duty to run the club responsibly, keep spending in check, etc, but there must also be a sign of ambition, a feeling that they are at least  trying to build up to something better than just barely surviving as a full time Championship team. Sadly we are just treading water, there's an apparent lethargy right throughout the Club and its now spread to the supporters and who can honestly blame more and more for losing interest. 

This is spot on.

I would also throw our style of play and AJ's approach to matches into the mix.  Yesterday was a prime example - we were playing a cup tie against a part time team from a lower league and went into the game with a set up you would expect to see if we were playing a top 4 EPL side.  Two deep lying midfielders playing virtually the same role on the edge of our own penalty area means our attacking players had to come back deep to get the ball and then have no-one to play the ball forward to.  We rely totally on the opposition giving the ball away and hitting them on the break, or getting lucky from a set piece.  If we do score, we then form a 9 man defence, camp on the edge of our box and look to have no intention of scoring again - even if the scores are level.  Even our keeper has clearly been instructed not to play the ball long unless absolutely necessary. 

We know from the experience of the League Cup and the first couple of league matches that we have players who can play attractive football but AJ seems to fear all opponents and has adopted the old Walter Smith/Alex McLeish style of anti-football we became used to suffering in Rangers European games in 90% of matches.  The "Get intae them" chant is no longer relevant - it should be replaced with "get intae their half".

It is a tortuous spectacle to endure and is not a product I'm prepared to pay £18 to watch.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Slipmat