The Queen of the South thread

[Guest Flash]

 

10 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

It would cost far more to put it back to grass than simply renew the playing carpet. Probably twice as much or more. I wouldn't put it back in a month of sundays honestly. I'm unsure where this "one of the best pitches in the country" myth comes from either. Maybe before the turn of the century. It was distinctly ropy for years before we switched away from the grass and regularly criticised. I doubt many clubs make an awful lot of external income out of 3G pitches. Clubs like Stenny certainly did when they first got it but there were half a dozen of them in Scotland back then. There's about half a dozen in Dumfries alone now. Anyway, there isn't an awful lot of opportunity for 3rd party hire when a professional football club with a South of Scotland League tenant are occupying it. By the time three age groups of youths, girls teams and midweek fixtures for both clubs are dealt with.

The existing 3G is showing its age now. It went down in 2014 and is reaching end of life. I expect we'll get another year out of it, maybe two at a push, but I'd replace it with a new carpet for sure.

That would be a one-off cost, though. The plastic has to be replaced every few years. It has looked like it has needed replaced for ages and the only reason it hasn’t been would appear to be the cost. Whatever, if it costs twice as much, that only has to happen once.
Maybe when it was first put in, it was economic because there weren’t alternatives for hire. Once this one is completely done, I would replace it with grass. I appreciate a grass pitch has ongoing maintenance costs but so does plastic. And, of course, we would need new covers after getting rid of the previous ones.
When the decision was made to go to plastic, it was probably the right one. That doesn’t mean we have to stick with it forever just because it gets some games on and getting shot of it would have a one-off cost. And if it was replaced with grass, an opportunity could be taken then to improve the drainage etc. and make the grass pitch as good as it was previously.

 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Flash

[Fae_the_'briggs]

I would certainly like to see Palmerston returned to a good grass surface but I can appreciate the problems this would bring. I've nothing against good quality artificial surfaces either and that to me is the problem.  I don't think Palmerston has ever been a good quality artificial surface ever since it was originally laid, and it has already been relaid with what still looked like an inferior product.  I've no idea how it plays,  no doubt someone will come up with statistics to show it meets certain criteria,  but it just looks wrong (cheap)  if nothing else.  The surfaces at Falkirk,  Forfar,  Raith Rovers,  even Annan,  to name but a few,  all look better and seem to play better than ours. If Palmerston is to be relaid,  and kept artificial,  I hope they go for a top of the range product,  the Club seem to have been taken for mugs with what they've bought up to now. As has already been said by others,  why not let Heston Rovers,  our youth teams,  girls teams,  etc,  use KGV, the Club owns it so no great cost implications there,   and leave Palmerston for first team and possibly reserve games only, it'll extend the life of the next carpet that's laid. 

[nomad]

And here comes the real curve ball. Will bore everyone to tears!! We are out of the EU albeit, but the ECHA (European Chemicals Agency) has recommended the EU ban the use of the rubber infill used in artificial sports surfaces because of the 50000 tonnes of microplastic leachate released every year as well as the claims that there are still some poly aromatic hydrocarbons in some tyres which has been suggested to be a carcinogen. Michael Cain moment, not a lot of people know this, bit the rubber used is just ground down waste truck tyres! Yep, your Michelin or Continental that was used to deliver to your local supermarket ends up on football fields. If this happens and the UK follows, the alternatives have not been tested at any length. Decision should be this year. If it does happen EVERY club will be getting the grass seed out! 

[19QOS19]

It would cost far more to put it back to grass than simply renew the playing carpet. Probably twice as much or more. I wouldn't put it back in a month of sundays honestly. I'm unsure where this "one of the best pitches in the country" myth comes from either. Maybe before the turn of the century. It was distinctly ropy for years before we switched away from the grass and regularly criticised. I doubt many clubs make an awful lot of external income out of 3G pitches. Clubs like Stenny certainly did when they first got it but there were half a dozen of them in Scotland back then. There's about half a dozen in Dumfries alone now. Anyway, there isn't an awful lot of opportunity for 3rd party hire when a professional football club with a South of Scotland League tenant are occupying it. By the time three age groups of youths, girls teams and midweek fixtures for both clubs are dealt with. The Arena , indoors, is a far better facility for external hires. Away from semi pro / organised league football, most guys like me want to play indoors, 7 a side or less, out of any serious bad weather and with a wall to bounce errant shots off, not have to climb up 20 rows of a stand to pick up a ball somebody fired 40 feet over the bar!
The existing 3G is showing its age now. It went down in 2014 and is reaching end of life. I expect we'll get another year out of it, maybe two at a push, but I'd replace it with a new carpet for sure.

I honestly can't recall our pitch coming in for criticism before it was plastic. It had some issues around the goalmouth in the winter months like most pitches but in general I thought out groundsman did a great job and keeping it looking and playing well. It's been (rightly) criticised since going to plastic. It does look awful as well but I don't care too much about that as long as it plays well which is certainly doesn't. I've said before but when the ball gets stuck in Dobbie's feet regularly that says it all.

Obviously if it costs less to relay the pitch with plastic just now then that's the sensible option given the state of the world. But I hope we'll see a return to grass in the future if the pitch isn't actually generating us a decent income.

[Slipmat]

To be honest I'm not sure what Heston gain from playing in front of 30-40 folk at Palmerston other than the fact that the fact that Maryfield is is a marsh in the winter.   That said there are other options such as Marchmount, St Joes or the Crichton.  I've never been a fan of groundsharing.  Having your own ground is something to be proud of.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Slipmat

[Monkey Tennis]

Has anybody any idea (that they're willing to disclose) how much the Heston rent amounts to?  

I must admit that I'd always assumed the plastic pitch was a real moneyspinner, given that the floodlights are on every night, in normal circumstances.  It sounds though, as if it's maybe the Arena that is more of a cash cow.

I've tended to defend the pitch as I don't think it plays that badly, certainly in comparison to lots of grass pitches in winter.   I've also always assumed, however, that it made so much financial sense as to render the concerns relatively irrelevant.

If we don't make a fortune from it - that we couldn't theoretically replicate at KGV - then I'm in the camp that would rather see us going back to grass.

[GNU_Linux]

I don't have the post the hand but around March or April last year someone involved with Heston posted that the club's future may lay playing elsewhere if they wanted to pursue licensing. Zero clue if that's still the case.

[Steeplechat]

Ditch the plastic pitch.

[Rjc-1988]

I think the quality of our Astro is frankly terrible and has been almost from the moment it was introduced. I think very few players would take Astro over Grass - I think the ratio would be overwhelming (guessing 95:5 grass) or maybe more.The Raith pitch is impressive and if you could guarantee the same quality then that might work. What we have is totally unacceptable and when you throw in the lack of income generation it is a lose:lose.

Grass for me all day long but if the club feels Astro is the way forward then it surely has to be a top quality version.

[Jan mosniack]

Wee bit biased obviously but I thought for much of the seventies and eighties Palmy was the best playing surface in Scotland (and yes, l had visited all the other grounds). Deteriated significantly thereafter.

[gogs]

Nothing wrong with plastic for me yes grass is better but in the depths of winter plastic allows you to get game on when grass would be off and play football on a nice surface.
I appreciate our surface ain't the best so there is a need to make sure it's the right thing before we relay it next time teams will always moan about a 3G surface but teams train on them every day.

[ALOREBURNE]

Our new club chaplain came across as a cool guy from the short feature on A view from the Terrace. 

[Otis Blue]

17 hours ago, Jan mosniack said:

Wee bit biased obviously but I thought for much of the seventies and eighties Palmy was the best playing surface in Scotland (and yes, l had visited all the other grounds). Deteriated significantly thereafter.

I'm of the same view JM.  I remember ages ago reading an interview with the late great Davie Cooper and he was asked what was the best surface he had played on and he said Palmerston (probably from his Clydebank days, obviously).

[palmy_cammy]

I think the ability to get games going ahead is being underplayed a little here.  Am I not right in saying a major contributory factor in the buckets coming out for the Save our South campaign was a dreadful run of weather where we went weeks without a home game and suffered cashflow issues as a result?  Obviously you can ask questions about the bigger issue of why a few weeks without income had us on the brink, but I think there are several clear benefits to having games going ahead on a Saturday afternoon when they are meant to.  I know plastic pitches aren't infallible to adverse weather, as people seem to take great enjoyment in pointing out when an astro pitch has a postponement, but I'm sure the stats would support that we have a far lower number of postponements since moving to plastic.

I don't have a problem with us having an artificial surface at all, but I do have an issue with how terrible ours appears to be.  It really needs to be third time lucky when the pitch does get re-laid, and hopefully lessons have been learned on how to maintain it.

[ALOREBURNE]

This run is ridiculous. I looked at the fixtures after we lost to Alloa and feared the worst yet we’ve took 10 points from a solid 4 games. UNBELIEVABLE! Arbroath and Alloa our next 2 fixtures which are season defining for me. What a team

 

[Fae_the_'briggs]

AJ certainly looks to be making good use of the Coaching and Tactics Manual he got for Christmas. 

[Monkey Tennis]

11 minutes ago, ALOREBURNE said:

This run is ridiculous. I looked at the fixtures after we lost to Alloa and feared the worst yet we’ve took 10 points from a solid 4 games. UNBELIEVABLE! Arbroath and Alloa our next 2 fixtures which are season defining for me. What a team

 

Before these last 4 games, I'd have honestly killed for half of those ten points.

An incredible return.  

 

I actually felt a bit disappointed by those late  Raith goals against Alloa, before I checked myself.

[nomad]

	Team	P	GD	Pts
1		Hearts	7	15	18
2		Dunfermline	8	6	15
3		Morton	8	-3	13
4		Raith Rovers	7	9	12
5		Ayr	8	3	12
6		Inverness CT	8	3	11
7		Dundee	8	-4	10
8		Alloa	8	-9	7
9		Arbroath	8	-7	5
10		Queen of Sth	8	-13	4

To be fair, seen this coming as much as I say Covid in November 19. Can be as critical as anyone, but well done all! 

[Monkey Tennis]

17 minutes ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

AJ certainly looks to be making good use of the Coaching and Tactics Manual he got for Christmas. 

Whoever got him in the club's 'Secret Santa' this year deserves an enormous pat on the back.

[die hard doonhamer]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Before these last 4 games, I'd have honestly killed for half of those ten points.

An incredible return.  

 

I actually felt a bit disappointed by those late  Raith goals against Alloa, before I checked myself.

I was checking the other scores throughout, as I normally do, and felt totally confused as to what I was meant to be hoping for.

Are we allowed to say that the top 4 is a legitimate aim now?