The Queen of the South thread

[19QOS19]

Only seen him when he played against Dunfermline but I'd agree, can't beleive he's went for that amount of money, fantastic business for QoTS though. 
 
Not sure how he'll fare in the championship, the centre backs are more athletic, and bigger than in the Premiership. 

I expect it'll suit him fine. Dykes is thin but he's still a physical unit who isn't scared to get stuck in. He can more than handle himself physically. His technical ability is sound as well. If he is played alongside someone who knows where the goal is he'll be a major asset. Though he's shown last season he's finally found his own shooting boots.

[Skyline Drifter]

12 minutes ago, Mr X said:

These are strange times ... I agree with you.

It was clear Dykes was far more effective, offensively, playing further forward. It allowed him to hold the ball up and make runs into the channels. Its where he's played at Livingston and whats made him look a much better player.

It's certainly made hm the focus of attack and more noticed. The very obvious difference however is that we had Stephen Dobbie. I suppose we could conceivably have played Dykes as a line leading centre forward and played Dobbie in a deeper role (which is largely where he played in England) but we all know if Naysmith or any other manager had tried playing Dobbie anywhere other than centre forward he'd have been hung from Burns statue and left for the buzzards to pick apart so it's not realistic. Whatever his other flaws, Naysmith got 50 goals from the pairing in their last season together. I think he had that part just about right.

[Homer Thompson]

16 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

It's certainly made hm the focus of attack and more noticed. The very obvious difference however is that we had Stephen Dobbie. I suppose we could conceivably have played Dykes as a line leading centre forward and played Dobbie in a deeper role (which is largely where he played in England) but we all know if Naysmith or any other manager had tried playing Dobbie anywhere other than centre forward he'd have been hung from Burns statue and left for the buzzards to pick apart so it's not realistic. Whatever his other flaws, Naysmith got 50 goals from the pairing in their last season together. I think he had that part just about right.

All perfectly true. My post wasnt intended as a criticism of the managers Dykes played under, just offering an explanation of why Dykes has looked more effective at Livingston.

It would be nice next season to have a strong central midfield partnership to allow us to play with two genuine strikers.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Mr X

[ALOREBURNE]

37 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Not sure how he'll fare in the championship, the centre backs are more athletic, and bigger than in the Premiership. 

6ft 5 Christopher Jullien will be glad to see the back of him. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by ALOREBURNE

[Monkey Tennis]

39 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Whatever his other flaws, Naysmith got 50 goals from the pairing in their last season together. 

That's perfectly true, but only in the same way that you and Kenny Dalglish have over a hundred caps between you.

[Skyline Drifter]

9 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's perfectly true, but only in the same way that you and Kenny Dalglish have over a hundred caps between you.

I know you're being facetious but it's not remotely in the same way.

Unlike the combination of Dalglish and me where he has all the Scotland caps and I never played for my school team, Lyndon Dykes was a massive part of the reason the combination got 53 goals in that final season together. Not only did Lyndon score 10 himself but he directly or indirectly set up a large number of the rest. You only have to look at Dobbie's return without Dykes to see the evidence for his contribution. Refusing to acknowledge that smacks of simply not wanting to see it to be honest.

Sean O'Connor did great for us over a number of seasons but Lyndon Dykes was already a better player when he left us than O'Connor ever was, never mind how he's come on since.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I know you're being facetious but it's not remotely in the same way.

Unlike the combination of Dalglish and me where he has all the Scotland caps and I never played for my school team, Lyndon Dykes was a massive part of the reason the combination got 53 goals in that final season together. Not only did Lyndon score 10 himself but he directly or indirectly set up a large number of the rest. You only have to look at Dobbie's return without Dykes to see the evidence for his contribution. Refusing to acknowledge that smacks of simply not wanting to see it to be honest.

Sean O'Connor did great for us over a number of seasons but Lyndon Dykes was already a better player when he left us than O'Connor ever was, never mind how he's come on since.

He's obviously done very well during the last season, but he did a lot less for us than O'Connor managed.

I think the role he played in Dobbie's haul is significant, but oft overstated.  While it can be argued that Dobbie wouldn't have scored so many without Dykes, it can equally be pointed out that if other front players had chimed in with goals of their own a bit more frequently, we'd have stayed out of trouble.

[die hard doonhamer]

9 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I know you're being facetious but it's not remotely in the same way.

Unlike the combination of Dalglish and me where he has all the Scotland caps and I never played for my school team, Lyndon Dykes was a massive part of the reason the combination got 53 goals in that final season together. Not only did Lyndon score 10 himself but he directly or indirectly set up a large number of the rest. You only have to look at Dobbie's return without Dykes to see the evidence for his contribution. Refusing to acknowledge that smacks of simply not wanting to see it to be honest.

Sean O'Connor did great for us over a number of seasons but Lyndon Dykes was already a better player when he left us than O'Connor ever was, never mind how he's come on since.

I was with you right up until that last paragraph. 

O'Connor player a similar role, but had more goals in him for us than Dykes did. I would say that Dykes is at peak O'Connor level about now, and if it wasn't for his injury record, O'Connor would have ended up at a similar level.

[Guest Flash]

18 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I know you're being facetious but it's not remotely in the same way.

Unlike the combination of Dalglish and me where he has all the Scotland caps and I never played for my school team, Lyndon Dykes was a massive part of the reason the combination got 53 goals in that final season together. Not only did Lyndon score 10 himself but he directly or indirectly set up a large number of the rest. You only have to look at Dobbie's return without Dykes to see the evidence for his contribution. Refusing to acknowledge that smacks of simply not wanting to see it to be honest.

Sean O'Connor did great for us over a number of seasons but Lyndon Dykes was already a better player when he left us than O'Connor ever was, never mind how he's come on since.

I don’t think losing Dykes is the main reason for Dobbie’s lack of goals. They started to diminish shortly after we beat County 4-0 in January 2019 (I’m not including goals scored against lower league part-timers).  

We scored 8 goals in the last 15 league games of 18/19 and I think Dobbie only scored 3 pens in that run and Dykes scored once. Tbf Dobbie went off injured in the 5th last game and didn’t play until the last one when he wasn’t fit.  I don’t think Dykes had any assists in those 15 games (apart from earning at least one pen). Anyway, the point is that the goals started to dry up while Dykes was still here. Imo it was more to do with losing any creative or attacking threat from midfield. After Harkins left, it looked like Low was going to play that role but he was injured most of the time.

I also think the lack of goals last season was similarly down to a lack of a creative or attacking midfield player, especially after El Bak left. I think even if we’d had Dykes from January last season, we would still have struggled to score, as we did in the same period a year earlier.

[Monkey Tennis]

11 minutes ago, Flash said:

I don’t think losing Dykes is the main reason for Dobbie’s lack of goals. They started to diminish shortly after we beat County 4-0 in January 2019 (I’m not including goals scored against lower league part-timers).  

We scored 8 goals in the last 15 league games of 18/19 and I think Dobbie only scored 3 pens in that run and Dykes scored once. Tbf Dobbie went off injured in the 5th last game and didn’t play until the last one when he wasn’t fit.  I don’t think Dykes had any assists in those 15 games (apart from earning at least one pen). Anyway, the point is that the goals started to dry up while Dykes was still here. Imo it was more to do with losing any creative or attacking threat from midfield. After Harkins left, it looked like Low was going to play that role but he was injured most of the time.

I also think the lack of goals last season was similarly down to a lack of a creative or attacking midfield player, especially after El Bak left. I think even if we’d had Dykes from January last season, we would still have struggled to score, as we did in the same period a year earlier.

Spot on.

It's probably also worth considering what he did moments before winning that penalty against Falkirk.

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Only seen him when he played against Dunfermline but I'd agree, can't beleive he's went for that amount of money, fantastic business for QoTS though. 

 

Not sure how he'll fare in the championship, the centre backs are more athletic, and bigger than in the Premiership. 

I think the physicality of Championship sides is overstated a bit. We played Sunderland the Summer after their relegation from the EPL, and pretty much chucked them around the park, not a pyhsical gulf at all apart from height.

Dykes should do well. You see utter fucking carthorses like Jayden Stockley standing out in that division. 

I doubt Dykes will become an EPL regular though, unless he dramatically improves on the ball.

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

He's obviously done very well during the last season, but he did a lot less for us than O'Connor managed.

I think the role he played in Dobbie's haul is significant, but oft overstated.  While it can be argued that Dobbie wouldn't have scored so many without Dykes, it can equally be pointed out that if other front players had chimed in with goals of their own a bit more frequently, we'd have stayed out of trouble.

I don't think he did do "a lot less for us" to be honest. He played in higher profile games, that's true, but you never give Gordon Chisholm much credit for that so it's a bit rich to claim that as a reason Sean was better. Sean had a much better team around him too, though Dobbie himself was probably better in Dykes spell than O'Connor's.

1 hour ago, die hard doonhamer said:

I was with you right up until that last paragraph. 

O'Connor player a similar role, but had more goals in him for us than Dykes did. I would say that Dykes is at peak O'Connor level about now, and if it wasn't for his injury record, O'Connor would have ended up at a similar level.

Sean was ungainly and difficult to knock off the ball but you often felt he had no idea what he was trying to do some of the time and that's what confused defenders. The big man was good in the air but he didn't have either the pace or power Dykes had by the time he left us and he's better with the ball at his feet than Sean was. Both of them rarely struck a ball really cleanly mind you and O'Connor wasn't all that regular a scorer. Looking at it he got about 1 in 4 for us and Dykes got about 1 in 5 or so. As has been pointed out though some of those games were not as a striker. Apart from one infamous outing at centre half I think all of Sean's games were up front.  It's probably true to say O'Connor had more goals in him, at least up to Dykes left us, but the difference wasn't massive.

All about opinions and I accept an injury free O'Connor could have played Premier League in Scotland. I'm not convinced he could have stepped up further though or got anywhere near international recognition (although the fact he was English clearly would have made that irrelevant).

1 hour ago, Flash said:

I don’t think losing Dykes is the main reason for Dobbie’s lack of goals. They started to diminish shortly after we beat County 4-0 in January 2019 (I’m not including goals scored against lower league part-timers).  

We scored 8 goals in the last 15 league games of 18/19 and I think Dobbie only scored 3 pens in that run and Dykes scored once. Tbf Dobbie went off injured in the 5th last game and didn’t play until the last one when he wasn’t fit.  I don’t think Dykes had any assists in those 15 games (apart from earning at least one pen). Anyway, the point is that the goals started to dry up while Dykes was still here. Imo it was more to do with losing any creative or attacking threat from midfield. After Harkins left, it looked like Low was going to play that role but he was injured most of the time.

I also think the lack of goals last season was similarly down to a lack of a creative or attacking midfield player, especially after El Bak left. I think even if we’d had Dykes from January last season, we would still have struggled to score, as we did in the same period a year earlier.

Fair enough. It's all contributory of course. I do think Dykes is a bigger reason than Harkins leaving and Low not being there. I also think Dobbie being a year older was certainly a factor.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I don't think he did do "a lot less for us" to be honest. He played in higher profile games, that's true, but you never give Gordon Chisholm much credit for that so it's a bit rich to claim that as a reason Sean was better. Sean had a much better team around him too, though Dobbie himself was probably better in Dykes spell than O'Connor's. 

Eh?  Where's the contradiction in thinking O'Connor did well for us, but Chisholm wasn't much of a manager?  The two views can sit perfectly comfortably alongside each other.  

 

Remember O'Connor's  first spell too.

 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

30 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Eh?  Where's the contradiction in thinking O'Connor did well for us, but Chisholm wasn't much of a manager?  The two views can sit perfectly comfortably alongside each other. 

There's no contradiction in that bare statement but that's not what you said the first time. You said

3 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

he did a lot less for us than O'Connor managed.

which I took to mean Sean played in the Cup Final / in Europe, etc. If it's not what you meant then I simply don't agree Lyndon did less than Sean. Not in terms of his contribution to the team. The team itself achieved far less but Sean was part of the best eleven we've had in living memory probably. Lyndon very much wasn't.

[Monkey Tennis]

5 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

There's no contradiction in that bare statement but that's not what you said the first time. You said

which I took to mean Sean played in the Cup Final / in Europe, etc. If it's not what you meant then I simply don't agree Lyndon did less than Sean. Not in terms of his contribution to the team. The team itself achieved far less but Sean was part of the best eleven we've had in living memory probably. Lyndon very much wasn't.

You seem to be focusing entirely on O'Connor's second spell.  His first was arguably more impressive despite injury, and featured none of what you're on about above.

[MallanandFlanagan]

Sean O Connor = Legend. That is all I have to say.

[Skyline Drifter]

3 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You seem to be focusing entirely on O'Connor's second spell.  His first was arguably more impressive despite injury, and featured none of what you're on about above.

No, I am considering both spells, in total. I remember the first spell. I thought he was better in the 2nd spell.

[HoBNob]

10 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I think the physicality of Championship sides is overstated a bit. We played Sunderland the Summer after their relegation from the EPL, and pretty much chucked them around the park, not a pyhsical gulf at all apart from height.

Dykes should do well. You see utter fucking carthorses like Jayden Stockley standing out in that division. 

I doubt Dykes will become an EPL regular though, unless he dramatically improves on the ball.

I'm not sure a pre season friendly against a team that would go on to be relegated is the barometer for how physical, and aggressive championship teams are. 

You're not the first person I've seen mention Stockley, he scored four times last season... 

[Derry Alli]

27 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

I'm not sure a pre season friendly against a team that would go on to be relegated is the barometer for how physical, and aggressive championship teams are. 

You're not the first person I've seen mention Stockley, he scored four times last season... 

Leave him be. He's wrote out that Sunderland story about 25 times on this site for some unknown reason. "We ragdolled them when they had just been relegated from the EPL". Dundee beat Man City when they were champions of that league Sunderland were binned out of and nobody fucking talks about it anymore. 

Hilarious, I love it. 

ST JOHNSTONE BEAT SUNDERLAND. 

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Grant228 said:

I'm not sure a pre season friendly against a team that would go on to be relegated is the barometer for how physical, and aggressive championship teams are. 

They still had an amount of EPL players, and those who would go on to play regularly in the Championship even after they were relegated.

They neither physically dominated Saints or Hibs in defence that pre-season, and neither of us had anyone as "built" as Dykes.

There's a myth Championship defences are filled with 7ft tall monsters who are rapid, when the reality is its remarkably similar to the Scottish Premiership once you're past the elite few Championship clubs, even then you see Leeds getting promoted with Liam Cooper in this side. Dykes can absolutely dominate him physically.