The Queen of the South thread

[palmy_cammy]

A commanding goalkeeper, the aerial prowess of Brownlie as well as the additional height of Holt mean our defence is night and day compared to last season.

With Semple still to come back in as well the defence is the one real positive so far this season.

[Nithsdale Wanderer]

17 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

For all the midfield is our biggest weakness you have to give them credit for our defence as well. They clearly give protection to the backline. If we just really need a creative player in the middle. Dobbie's goals will come.

You have your ' Dobbie tinted ' specs on.

He has had plenty of opportunities but his finishing  - which I am sure he would admit himself -  has been very poor.

How he didn't score yesterday with just Fox to beat is a mystery.  Would have killed the game at that stage.

[19QOS19]

You have your ' Dobbie tinted ' specs on.
He has had plenty of opportunities but his finishing  - which I am sure he would admit himself -  has been very poor.
How he didn't score yesterday with just Fox to beat is a mystery.  Would have killed the game at that stage.

I'll take your word for it about yesterday as I wasn't there. But you're more than pushing it to say he's had "plenty" of opportunities. I can't recall seeing him have a one on one so far this season. The closest he's come has been half chances that he's snapped at. If you think he's had as many chances as he had at this stage last season then you're kidding yourself.

He's been banging them in every season since his return but he's just forgot how to score is your thinking? Nothing to do with the completely different (and much much poorer) midfield he has behind him?

[Nithsdale Wanderer]

No, in answer to your last sentence.

He is going through one of these patches that he always does but I have no doubt he will hit a  ' hot streak' soon.

I may be wrong but in my mind he tends to go on runs where he scores 2 or 3 per game and then can go several without scoring rather than scoring 1 on a regular basis.

Nothing is coming off for him right now and when it doesn't it looks terrible.

He is snatching at shots and dragging them wide and trying to run through several defenders which is wonderful when it works and looks awful when it doesn't.

By the way, as I commented on the match thread, Kidd put in an excellent shift yesterday.    The stick he has had has been way OTT.

[19QOS19]

No, in answer to your last sentence.
He is going through one of these patches that he always does but I have no doubt he will hit a  ' hot streak' soon.
I may be wrong but in my mind he tends to go on runs where he scores 2 or 3 per game and then can go several without scoring rather than scoring 1 on a regular basis.
Nothing is coming off for him right now and when it doesn't it looks terrible.
He is snatching at shots and dragging them wide and trying to run through several defenders which is wonderful when it works and looks awful when it doesn't.
By the way, as I commented on the match thread, Kidd put in an excellent shift yesterday.    The stick he has had has been way OTT.

So you believe he'd have rattled in 43 goals last season even with this current midfield behind him?

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

I'll take your word for it about yesterday as I wasn't there. But you're more than pushing it to say he's had "plenty" of opportunities. I can't recall seeing him have a one on one so far this season. The closest he's come has been half chances that he's snapped at. If you think he's had as many chances as he had at this stage last season then you're kidding yourself.

He's been banging them in every season since his return but he's just forgot how to score is your thinking? Nothing to do with the completely different (and much much poorer) midfield he has behind him?

 

10 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

So you believe he'd have rattled in 43 goals last season even with this current midfield behind him?

Here we go again, even after a win in a game you werent at the midfield is all thats wrong. I wasnt there either but have spoken to others, including actual football coaches who told me Paton did well creatively in the middle while Kidd put in a good shift. 

Is the midfield magic? No. But its not significantly poorer than last season if it is at all. The biggest factor in Dobbie's current dry spell is undeniably Dobbie himself. He is certainly missing chances he was putting away last season. Though he is also missing Dykes workrate and energy clearing space for him certainly. Those who couldnt see what Dykes did for us last year were blinded. Instead he is now getting man of the match awards v Rangers and Celtic. 

[sidofthesouth]

Talking on the radio about Steve Clarke being at Livi today to watch Dykes. He was outstanding apparently.........

[19QOS19]

Here we go again, even after a win in a game you werent at the midfield is all thats wrong. I wasnt there either but have spoken to others, including actual football coaches who told me Paton did well creatively in the middle while Kidd put in a good shift. 
Is the midfield magic? No. But its not significantly poorer than last season if it is at all. The biggest factor in Dobbie's current dry spell is undeniably Dobbie himself. He is certainly missing chances he was putting away last season. Though he is also missing Dykes workrate and energy clearing space for him certainly. Those who couldnt see what Dykes did for us last year were blinded. Instead he is now getting man of the match awards v Rangers and Celtic. 

The midfield is the weakest area of our side, not sure how you can disagree with that. It really is significantly poorer than last season. I would have Jacobs, Todd and Stirling all before Kidd, Paton, McCarthy and probably Pybus. FWIW, I never brought the midfield up out of thin air here, it was in response to NW's post.

I don't know what relevance it has you speaking with coaches about Paton. They are hardly going to slate him are they?

[19QOS19]

Talking on the radio about Steve Clarke being at Livi today to watch Dykes. He was outstanding apparently.........

He'd prefer to play for Australia so doubt he'd jump in to play for Scotland just now. Especially with how shite the national side is right now.

[Sankasouthy]

We sat behind the Livingston manager Gary Holt at Somerset last season. We weren’t really sure who he was watching but Lyndon Dykes and Robbie Crawford we’re both playing that day.

Both players were outstanding today! Great pass from Robbie to set up the first goal and a superb finish from Lyndon for goal number two. Steve Clark was there watching and Sky Sports Kris Boyd talking up Dykes for a Scotland call up!

[Skyline Drifter]

46 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

The midfield is the weakest area of our side, not sure how you can disagree with that. It really is significantly poorer than last season. I would have Jacobs, Todd and Stirling all before Kidd, Paton, McCarthy and probably Pybus. FWIW, I never brought the midfield up out of thin air here, it was in response to NW's post.

I don't know what relevance it has you speaking with coaches about Paton. They are hardly going to slate him are they?

It probably is the weakest area of our side, although despite reputations the strikers aren't really setting the heather on fire either. I don't think it is significantly poorer than last season particularly. We've had that debate before. Stirling couldn't get a game for us regularly last season. He couldn't get a game for Alloa either and is, as far as I know, clubless. I don't think there's ever been a player who managed to get better and better in the eyes of some fans while not actually playing any football and producing relatively little when he did play than Andy Stirling. I'd have Jacobs and Todd before any of them though, yes. Jacobs is a loss we haven't replaced (unless Osman does it). Todd went to Dundee when they were a Premier League team for a good reason, he's better than this level, though he's not actually getting a regular game for Dundee now.

And you did bring the midfield up, firstly in response to my post above, and then twice in response to NW saying Dobbie just isn't taking his chances.

And it wasn't our coaches I was talking to this morning. Supporters who happen to also coach local sides.

[die hard doonhamer]

22 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

It probably is the weakest area of our side, although despite reputations the strikers aren't really setting the heather on fire either. I don't think it is significantly poorer than last season particularly. We've had that debate before. Stirling couldn't get a game for us regularly last season. He couldn't get a game for Alloa either and is, as far as I know, clubless. I don't think there's ever been a player who managed to get better and better in the eyes of some fans while not actually playing any football and producing relatively little when he did play than Andy Stirling. I'd have Jacobs and Todd before any of them though, yes. Jacobs is a loss we haven't replaced (unless Osman does it). Todd went to Dundee when they were a Premier League team for a good reason, he's better than this level, though he's not actually getting a regular game for Dundee now.

And you did bring the midfield up, firstly in response to my post above, and then twice in response to NW saying Dobbie just isn't taking his chances.

And it wasn't our coaches I was talking to this morning. Supporters who happen to also coach local sides.

Andy Stirling was in the SPFL team of the week last week for his performance for Stranraer against Airdrie.

I'm not saying this means we should still have him, but he's obviously excelling a level below.

[Skyline Drifter]

2 minutes ago, die hard doonhamer said:

Andy Stirling was in the SPFL team of the week last week for his performance for Stranraer against Airdrie.

I'm not saying this means we should still have him, but he's obviously excelling a level below.

I thought he'd joined Stranraer but quickly looked up Wiki to check and it said he was clubless! I should know better than to presume Wiki is gospel. He may well be excelling but appearing in the SPFL team of the week doesn't mean he is. It means he had a good game. Fact remains, the way some of our fans wax lyrical about him mystifies me given what he produced in two seasons here. Connor Murray did more after replacing him in the playoffs alone last season, and has already done a lot more this season than Stirling did all year.

[die hard doonhamer]

3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I thought he'd joined Stranraer but quickly looked up Wiki to check and it said he was clubless! I should know better than to presume Wiki is gospel. He may well be excelling but appearing in the SPFL team of the week doesn't mean he is. It means he had a good game. Fact remains, the way some of our fans wax lyrical about him mystifies me given what he produced in two seasons here. Connor Murray did more after replacing him in the playoffs alone last season, and has already done a lot more this season than Stirling did all year.

I don't disagree with you, it's just fun to pick you up on things on the rare occasion you get them wrong 

[Rjc-1988]

I can only call things as I have seen them in live games and I think Kidd has been pretty decent. He has protected the back four pretty well in most games and certainly hasn’t deserved the stick that has been flying about on here. I certainly wouldn’t want Kyle Jacobs back but others see things differently.

The biggest change that I see from last year is that AJ (despite having an inferior squad in terms of quality) sets up the team looking to win games unlike his predecessor. The problem that he has faced is that the strikers including Dobbie have been misfiring. If they had performed at a good level we could easily have another 5/6 points on the board at this stage.

The signings have generally been uninspiring but the hand that the Manager has to play with,when competing for new players, is clearly a very weak one as evidenced by the number of signing targets that have given us a wide berth and gone elsewhere.

If Dobbie in particular and El Bak /Hamilton can start scoring regularly we might just be surprised especially if the “goals against” column stays low.

[19QOS19]

It probably is the weakest area of our side, although despite reputations the strikers aren't really setting the heather on fire either. I don't think it is significantly poorer than last season particularly. We've had that debate before. Stirling couldn't get a game for us regularly last season. He couldn't get a game for Alloa either and is, as far as I know, clubless. I don't think there's ever been a player who managed to get better and better in the eyes of some fans while not actually playing any football and producing relatively little when he did play than Andy Stirling. I'd have Jacobs and Todd before any of them though, yes. Jacobs is a loss we haven't replaced (unless Osman does it). Todd went to Dundee when they were a Premier League team for a good reason, he's better than this level, though he's not actually getting a regular game for Dundee now.
And you did bring the midfield up, firstly in response to my post above, and then twice in response to NW saying Dobbie just isn't taking his chances.
And it wasn't our coaches I was talking to this morning. Supporters who happen to also coach local sides.

So you'd have two ex-midfielders ahead of 4 of our current crop? It would suggest you think last years midfield was indeed better.

I can only call things as I have seen them in live games and I think Kidd has been pretty decent. He has protected the back four pretty well in most games and certainly hasn’t deserved the stick that has been flying about on here. I certainly wouldn’t want Kyle Jacobs back but others see things differently.

The biggest change that I see from last year is that AJ (despite having an inferior squad in terms of quality) sets up the team looking to win games unlike his predecessor. The problem that he has faced is that the strikers including Dobbie have been misfiring. If they had performed at a good level we could easily have another 5/6 points on the board at this stage.

The signings have generally been uninspiring but the hand that the Manager has to play with,when competing for new players, is clearly a very weak one as evidenced by the number of signing targets that have given us a wide berth and gone elsewhere.

If Dobbie in particular and El Bak /Hamilton can start scoring regularly we might just be surprised especially if the “goals against” column stays low.

We had one shot on target against ICT. I missed that game and Thistle but I'm struggling to recall occasions where our strikers have been one on one and just blown it. There is something telling me El Bak had one in a game but can't recall which one. Point being they are hardly being given chances on a plate and just fluffing it. The majority of the time the ball is being flung up high to Oliver, Dobbie or El Bak and lately Hamilton. It's hard to expect them to rattle them in with that service.


As I said yesterday, the midfield has to take some credit for our tightness at the back. But you can't praise the midfield for us keeping teams out and not question them for our lack of goals. We are severely lacking creativity.

[ALOREBURNE]

2 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

2 hours ago, sidofthesouth said:

Talking on the radio about Steve Clarke being at Livi today to watch Dykes. He was outstanding apparently.........

He'd prefer to play for Australia so doubt he'd jump in to play for Scotland just now. Especially with how shite the national side is right now.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49948381

[19QOS19]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49948381

I listened to a Livi podcast the other day and he said he'd choose Australia if he had to pick. I expect BBC have edited it in such a way.

[Skyline Drifter]

25 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

So you'd have two ex-midfielders ahead of 4 of our current crop? It would suggest you think last years midfield was indeed better.
We had one shot on target against ICT. I missed that game and Thistle but I'm struggling to recall occasions where our strikers have been one on one and just blown it. There is something telling me El Bak had one in a game but can't recall which one. Point being they are hardly being given chances on a plate and just fluffing it. The majority of the time the ball is being flung up high to Oliver, Dobbie or El Bak and lately Hamilton. It's hard to expect them to rattle them in with that service.


As I said yesterday, the midfield has to take some credit for our tightness at the back. But you can't praise the midfield for us keeping teams out and not question them for our lack of goals. We are severely lacking creativity.

Well I'm not sure I'd particularly bracket Todd as a 'midfielder' but yes, if you want to do so then I would probably agree. I'd be comparing him to El Bakhtaoui though, not Kidd or Paton or Pybus. Suggesting 2 of last year's 4 are better than this year's midfielders though does NOT suggest I think last year's was better. I haven't actually said it wasn't better, just that it wasn't significantly so, and absolutely isn't the main or even secondary reason Dobbie isn't scoring as you seem so keen to attribute that to entirely. Dobbie is the biggest single reason Dobbie isn't scoring. The lack of Dykes is the secondary reason. Anything at all to do with our midfield is a much lesser part.

Dobbie missed several sitters at Clyde, apparently missed a really good chance with Fox out of position yesterday, a free header against Dundee, Other chances against Morton. El Bakhtaoui was clean through on Doohan at Ayr with only Dobbie for company and hit straight at him. I assume that's the one you refer to. They are missing plenty of chances. Quoting stats of shots on target misses the point. The point is they are NOT hitting the target and when they do it's usually straight at the keeper. The way you go on they've had no opportunities. I don't think anyone other than you actually IS praising the midfield for keeping teams out incidentally. First time I've seen anyone give any credit to the midfield was you in that post.

[Thereisalight..]

Dobbie seems to be a shadow of the player he was for you guys last season. Is it coincidence that Dykes not being there this season is resulting in Dobbie’s lack of goals?