The Queen of the South thread

[Homer Thompson]

20 minutes ago, SueSue said:

I am really sorry to make this point Mr X,  But Reading articles about Sheffield United and their Academy  they have been playing a back three from first team, U23s and U18s  for the past three seasons.

It means all players understand how they would be expected to play in the first team so Semple should be fine in a back three.

I am also sure Fordyce is more than capable of playing centre in a back three as is Doyle on the right with his pace.

I am interested who we have that would be disciplined enough to sit in as a defensive midfielder if we don’t make any more signings.

 

I have a feeling you didnt need to read articles to know all about Sheffield Utd youth teams. I never said he wouldnt know how to play it, I said he doesnt look mobile enough to play it at this level.

Jacobs is more than capable of playing as a defensive midfielder

[Bluenortherner]

I think all this tacticy talk should be kept for the game report thread. I wouldn't have a clue if changes were made or not!

[Steeplechat]

Another season, another home defeat. I know hardened died in the wool Queens men that stayed away from the first home game of the season that they would never miss under any circumstance and all because of last seasons dire form. The cynicism has risen to a level that they are expecting poor fair and a defeat. Now they plan to go to away games and put money in the coffers of others. First home game and no need to panic, but I fear two or three bad home results and the scene could be set for a pretty desperate centenary home season in terms of crowds. 

Complete lies

[steakpiegravy]

I’ve made my points about the defence elsewhere but for me the disappointing thing about Saturday, was that a player like Todd who has shown some level of skill and potential looked totally shorn of confidence. I genuinely have yet to see any hard evidence of Naysmiths ability to get the most out of his players. And that’s a worry.

[baw heid]

10 hours ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

I`m generally not a great fan of 352 but wonder if it would make us a bit more solid defensively, allow us to get the best out of Harkins and Dobbie and sill have 2 up front.

Martin/Leighfield (I don`t particularly rate either)

Doyle, Fordyce, Semple,

Mercer, Harkins, Jacobs, Todd, Marshall.

Dykes, Dobbie.

Any thoughts?

There is a lot of debate regarding playing with 3 centre backs and 2 Wing backs rather than a more traditional back 4. For the 3 CB set up to work you need 2 Wing backs who are able to get forward and back. This position needs loads of energy. If this is working the theory is that you can release a CB to go forward as well hence the need to have skillful CB's  I think this works in many senior sides but they have recruited players suited to this . In England Maguire and Stones and wing backs like Walker, Robertson and Hutton can handle it. Be interesting for us to give it a try but I fear we would struggle a bit with the width issue. Personally I think we could work with the back 4 as long as our full backs could push on if needed but with 1 or 2 holding in the mid field depending on the opposition.  A set up like that usually means low scoring games but with Mr. Dobbie in our team you could expect him to nick a goal or two. Unfortunately everyone else needs to get behind the ball and defend something we don't do.  Managers say their team should defend from the front

[Rjc-1988]

One of the big problems on Saturday was that when we got into advanced wide areas it was invariably Doyle and Marshall who were tasked with beating the last defender. Todd and Stirling both drifted into midfield to leave gaps for Doyle and Marshall which meant that particularly Doyle and to a lesser extent Marshall got so much of the ball in the the final third. The big problem with that is that they are not the best players to get to the byeline and/or deliver that killer ball.

As others have said Stirling and Todd are both flair players who have ability to beat players with their quick feet and array of tricks. To have them drifting into an aimless central midfield area to create space for our full backs is for me a complete waste of their talent. I lost count of the number of times that the play was switched to wide right and rather than it being Stirling on the end of the pass it was Doyle. He works tirelessly but I want to see Doyle behind Stirling supporting him not the other way round.

This is not a criticism of our full backs but I do think that Todd and Stirling need to start taking responsibility along with Dobbie and Harkins to be our creators.

I vividly remember seeing Andy Stirling torment us and other Championship teams in his Dumbarton days - demanding the ball, going both ways, dropping the shoulder, delivering crosses and shots with both feet ...............sad to say I haven't seen that player in a Queens shirt.

[Bluenortherner]

8 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said:

One of the big problems on Saturday was that when we got into advanced wide areas it was invariably Doyle and Marshall who were tasked with beating the last defender. Todd and Stirling both drifted into midfield to leave gaps for Doyle and Marshall which meant that particularly Doyle and to a lesser extent Marshall got so much of the ball in the the final third. The big problem with that is that they are not the best players to get to the byeline and/or deliver that killer ball.

As others have said Stirling and Todd are both flair players who have ability to beat players with their quick feet and array of tricks. To have them drifting into an aimless central midfield area to create space for our full backs is for me a complete waste of their talent. I lost count of the number of times that the play was switched to wide right and rather than it being Stirling on the end of the pass it was Doyle. He works tirelessly but I want to see Doyle behind Stirling supporting him not the other way round.

This is not a criticism of our full backs but I do think that Todd and Stirling need to start taking responsibility along with Dobbie and Harkins to be our creators.

I vividly remember seeing Andy Stirling torment us and other Championship teams in his Dumbarton days - demanding the ball, going both ways, dropping the shoulder, delivering crosses and shots with both feet ...............sad to say I haven't seen that player in a Queens shirt.

This.

8 hours ago, baw heid said:

There is a lot of debate regarding playing with 3 centre backs and 2 Wing backs rather than a more traditional back 4. For the 3 CB set up to work you need 2 Wing backs who are able to get forward and back. This position needs loads of energy. If this is working the theory is that you can release a CB to go forward as well hence the need to have skillful CB's  I think this works in many senior sides but they have recruited players suited to this . In England Maguire and Stones and wing backs like Walker, Robertson and Hutton can handle it. Be interesting for us to give it a try but I fear we would struggle a bit with the width issue. Personally I think we could work with the back 4 as long as our full backs could push on if needed but with 1 or 2 holding in the mid field depending on the opposition.  A set up like that usually means low scoring games but with Mr. Dobbie in our team you could expect him to nick a goal or two. Unfortunately everyone else needs to get behind the ball and defend something we don't do.  Managers say their team should defend from the front

This.

[Bluenortherner]

 

Spoiler

We will probably get knocked out though!

All we can hope is that we win at Stenhousemuir tomorrow night, 

[19QOS19]

I vividly remember seeing Andy Stirling torment us and other Championship teams in his Dumbarton days - demanding the ball, going both ways, dropping the shoulder, delivering crosses and shots with both feet ...............sad to say I haven't seen that player in a Queens shirt.

Had this very conversation on Saturday. It's not the first time we have signed a player who was very good against us but never performed to the same standards for us. Kean, Millar, Stirling and McLaren are ones I can think of off the top of my head.

I came to the conclusion that these players weren't as good for us than against us because our defence probably made them look far better than they ever were [emoji38]

[nomad]

13 hours ago, Steeplechat said:

 

 

Complete lies

 

 

I wish it were. Four of the next five home games should be winnable, or at least a chance to get points on the board. And hopefully some decent performances rather than the concerningly regular 'we changed things around at half time' and 45 minutes of football. GN's credibility after saying he has learned from his mistakes at the end of last season hangs on an improvement over last years dismal home form. The team isn't good enough to win promotion or, being honest, probably be in the top four, but it should be good enough to hold its own on home soil.  

[QoS_Blue1919]

3-5-2 makes total sense. If it means we end up playing 5 at the back at times so be it. Our defence is fragile, an extra man won’t harm things whatsoever. Essentially you’re replacing Stirling with Mercer, meaning you lose Stirling’s creativity but you still have Todd, Dykes, Dobbie and Harkins to be creative and score/assist goals. I can’t see us not scoring in many games at all this season, if we stop the flow at the other end we’ll be a threat.

 

[BIGdavieT]

And if we’re going ahead with 13/14 senior players better to get the young players more involved now.

[QoS_Blue1919]

3 minutes ago, BIGdavieT said:

And if we’re going ahead with 13/14 senior players better to get the young players more involved now.

I reckon we’ll see Bell, Murray, possibly Tremble all playing tomorrow night

[19QOS19]

Maybe "Unpopular Opinions" thread for this but given it looks unlikely we'll be bringing any more players in, I really wouldn't care if we got knocked out tomorrow. I know there is some money near the end of this tournament but it's the 4th choice competition for me and the less games means the less chance of an injury.

Hopefully a few young boys get a run out and we rest our more important players for Saturday.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Maybe "Unpopular Opinions" thread for this but given it looks unlikely we'll be bringing any more players in, I really wouldn't care if we got knocked out tomorrow. I know there is some money near the end of this tournament but it's the 4th choice competition for me and the less games means the less chance of an injury.

Hopefully a few young boys get a run out and we rest our more important players for Saturday.

It's certainly the 4th most important competition we play in, but given the respective chances of lifting silverware that the others present us, I'm not sure that we should  be relegating its significance too much as a club.

I do take the point regarding the thinness of our squad, but this is a competition that's provided most of us with some of our all-time highlights.

[palmy_cammy]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It's certainly the 4th most important competition we play in, but given the respective chances of lifting silverware that the others present us, I'm not sure that we should  be relegating its significance too much as a club.

I do take the point regarding the thinness of our squad, but this is a competition that's provided most of us with some of our all-time highlights.

I'd normally agree wholeheartedly, and have defended the competition to the hilt in the past.  It's getting more and more difficult to do this though, given the authorities are intent on making the competition as big a farce as they possibly can.

I still want us to go as far as possible, as I do in every single match, but I tend to agree with 19QOS19's reasoning and hope we play a fringe side tomorrow.  Our lack of options mean that it is still likely to contain a number of first team players anyway.  I'd be happy with something resembling the following:

Leighfield

Mercer Fordyce Semple Marshall

Murray Bell Jacobs Todd

Dykes Dobbie

[Ira Gaines]

I used to see this cup as more important than the league cup due to the actual chance of getting something from it. I now treat it with nothing but contempt.

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, palmy_cammy said:

I'd normally agree wholeheartedly, and have defended the competition to the hilt in the past.  It's getting more and more difficult to do this though, given the authorities are intent on making the competition as big a farce as they possibly can.

I still want us to go as far as possible, as I do in every single match, but I tend to agree with 19QOS19's reasoning and hope we play a fringe side tomorrow.  Our lack of options mean that it is still likely to contain a number of first team players anyway.  I'd be happy with something resembling the following:

Leighfield

Mercer Fordyce Semple Marshall

Murray Bell Jacobs Todd

Dykes Dobbie

Yes, the arsing about with the competition hasn't helped with a defence of it.  I've heard it said though that some sort of revamp was needed to save it.  

I wouldn't be too devastated with defeat tomorrow either, so I suppose I kind of agree with you both.  The tournament does however, even now, have potential to provide some excitement into the season a bit.  Even last year it did.

PS.  I'm not daft on the look of that midfield.

[Arsene Parcelly]

3 hours ago, palmy_cammy said:

I'd normally agree wholeheartedly, and have defended the competition to the hilt in the past.  It's getting more and more difficult to do this though, given the authorities are intent on making the competition as big a farce as they possibly can.

I still want us to go as far as possible, as I do in every single match, but I tend to agree with 19QOS19's reasoning and hope we play a fringe side tomorrow.  Our lack of options mean that it is still likely to contain a number of first team players anyway.  I'd be happy with something resembling the following:

Leighfield

Mercer Fordyce Semple Marshall

Murray Bell Jacobs Todd

Dykes Dobbie

No no no no no. Unless there are injuries you play your strongest team in ANY competition.Shortchanging the fans by playing shadow squads,I HATE that.

[Distant Doonhamer]

16 minutes ago, Arsene Parcelly said:

No no no no no. Unless there are injuries you play your strongest team in ANY competition.Shortchanging the fans by playing shadow squads,I HATE that.

Can`t agree with that. given how threadbare our squad is some of the youngsters are inevitably going to feature at some stage. Might as well get some experience on board early on.  In any case 7 players in that team who are first picks and Mercer and Murray have a fair number of first team appearances.  In addition IMHO if Leighfield is a downgrade on Martin it`s a marginal one.