The Master Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Yeah, cause this is exactly what a mother does to her son... Be fair; it is Lichtieforlife you're speaking to. That's probably quite a normal mother/son relationship to him. Anyway, it was kind of obvious that the baby was River, so I reckon there's going to be more to it. Damn this three month break. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theentomologist Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Because it wasn't really alive. The explanation I read was that it was just a ganger like the one which melted earlier in the episode, it was still being controlled and hadn't, for the lack of a better word, evolved as the others did. I see. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theentomologist Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 The Doctor did confirm Amy was flesh before The impossible astronaut. And they believed she got up the duff on her honeymoon, which was right after the final esposide last year. Keeping in mind it's only a mid season break, so we might find out a lot more details. Still more to know about the silence, and also the "Tardis" someone attempted to build above Craigs flat. And of course that Skelton hand holding the Sonic at the end of the credits. that can't be the doctor or river -clearly trying to make us think that- since river has the sonic in 'the library' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 that can't be the doctor or river -clearly trying to make us think that- since river has the sonic in 'the library' She did reassure him she didn't pluck the sonic from his cold dead hand... Gotta wonder if Moffit had the whole River Song / Melody Pond story in his head since he introduced her back with Tennant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnyarb Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 But a few seasons ago did the Doctor not say if someone saw themselves in a different time then the universe would tear in an implosion or something. And River saw herself? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 It was alright, glad to find out who River was. What was the point of the Cybermen though? They seemed to do f**k all. Or were they the bosses of the eye-patch woman and her army and I missed the point? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 It was alright, glad to find out who River was. What was the point of the Cybermen though? They seemed to do f**k all. Or were they the bosses of the eye-patch woman and her army and I missed the point? Think they were just used for an ar*e kicking, and possibility setting them up to make a return to the series in the future 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drs Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 That could have been 48 minutes of pish but any show that ends on LET'S KILL HITLER is an epic win. The final reveal was a bit meh, it had been rather obviously signposted in the scene set in the prison earlier in the episode when for the first time River reacts differently to Rory than she has before for what appears to be no other reason than it'll be relevant 44 minutes later. The Cyberships looked suspicously "The Invasion"esque and did the BBC really just do a lesbian tongue gag at 7:15pm on a saturday night? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theentomologist Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 She did reassure him she didn't pluck the sonic from his cold dead hand... Gotta wonder if Moffit had the whole River Song / Melody Pond story in his head since he introduced her back with Tennant. I suspect he did. the moff unlike RTD has an actual series bible and plans his plots. I got the impression at times that RTD was a bit too 'baddy of the the week' and more through luck than judgement managed to reach a big ending. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theentomologist Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 But a few seasons ago did the Doctor not say if someone saw themselves in a different time then the universe would tear in an implosion or something. And River saw herself? she didn't. she saw a flesh version of herself, and he didn't say that. the only time a thing like that's been mentioned as when 5 met 10 in the comic relief thing and then all it did was age them both a bit and that was an excuse for davidson being a bit fatter and thinner in hair... I can assure you that this doesn't happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theentomologist Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 That could have been 48 minutes of pish but any show that ends on LET'S KILL HITLER is an epic win. The final reveal was a bit meh, it had been rather obviously signposted in the scene set in the prison earlier in the episode when for the first time River reacts differently to Rory than she has before for what appears to be no other reason than it'll be relevant 44 minutes later. The Cyberships looked suspicously "The Invasion"esque and did the BBC really just do a lesbian tongue gag at 7:15pm on a saturday night? oh yes they did, well spotted. I didn't bring it up as I was sitting with a couple of families at the time. but inside I laughed. not only that but an interspecies/bestiality one at that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rilke's Panther Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 From Steven Moffat's Twitter - "The TRUTH is out: Melody Pond - the words to the Doctor Who theme music." Quite irritating once it sticks in your mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jambo-rocker Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Rory at the start. "Do I need to repeat the question?" Genius. River song = melody pond. Even it did look like river was Amy's daughter, but I can't believe I didn't pick up on this at the start. Although u can see what they meant by weapon when u saw river in the second episode of this season. She was like a woman possessed when the doctor turned his back. I still thought this very well put together. Also, even though the baby was a ganger, it was an interesting thought that she wouldn't risk the two versions of the same person from different times paradox, that occured back in the eccelstone days when rose tried to save her father. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 (edited) I picked up on Melody Pond = River Song straight away, but it never crossed my mind that the baby could be a ganger. If River is a Time Lord, then Moffat has been exceptionally clever in closing potential plot holes. Think back to Forest of the Dead: River told 10 not to wire himself into CAL because he would die and not regenerate...thus, neither would she. In that same episode, he also said she whispered his name in his ear, and that there was only one time he would ever tell someone his name. I'm not sure how that fits in, because "you're the daughter of a companion so I need to tell you my name" doesn't really fit. Edited June 5, 2011 by The Master 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theentomologist Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I picked up on Melody Pond = River Song straight away, but it never crossed my mind that the baby could be a ganger. If River is a Time Lord, then Moffat has been exceptionally clever in closing potential plot holes. Think back to Forest of the Dead: River told 10 not to wire himself into CAL because he would die and not regenerate...thus, neither would she. In that same episode, he also said she whispered his name in his ear, and that there was only one time he would ever tell someone his name. I'm not sure how that fits in, because "you're the daughter of a companion so I need to tell you my name" doesn't really fit. having the daughter of your best friends as your wife though could be a tad uncomfortable though given to rory and amy she's like hours old.......hence he did make a quick exit.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 ok before I tweet the moff and look an utter tit, perhaps we can resolve this ourselves; at a soiree this evening which featured watching this episode a great point was raised. firstly can we agree the flesh became human in the tardis? secondly flesh amy has been in the tardis for a longish time? therefore, why did flesh amy not become human? There are all kinds of answers to that. Firstly the flesh didn't "become" human, I thknk he just said it had stabilised (so that it would no longer cut in and out of the exact form) - it didn't rule out the possibility that someone with the right technology could destabilise it again at some point in the future. Also, it was a much earlier version of the technology. But in any case, the situations were different. The gangers in that episode had ceased to be such, and had become independent entities by virtue of being separated from their originals. Amy's ganger, on teh other hand, was still acting very much as a ganger was supposed to, as a direct conduit of the person on whom it was based. It hadn't acquired a life of its own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) I suspect he did. the moff unlike RTD has an actual series bible and plans his plots. I got the impression at times that RTD was a bit too 'baddy of the the week' and more through luck than judgement managed to reach a big ending. Really? I mean I know you aren't willing to give him any credit, but really? I get the impression that you're unwilling to credit RTD with anything, which is absolute nonsense. I was a big critic of the big reset button and the gay aliens, but I am at least willing to give him praise where its due. You just come across as a bit pathetic. I enjoyed most of the ending, the season was a bit of a slow burner initially, but the Neil Gaiman episode was a highlight, and afterwards, its finally kicked into life. I would have liked to have seen a bit more action when they took the base, I mean why round up a massive army if you're not going to use it dramatically! That apart, it was a good bit of sci fi, albeit with the small Moffat Achilles heel of lacking real emotional impact. That aside, I enjoyed it a lot! Edited June 6, 2011 by xbl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Really? I mean I know you aren't willing to give him any credit, but really? I get the impression that you're unwilling to credit RTD with anything, which is absolute nonsense. I was a big critic of the big reset button and the gay aliens, but I am at least willing to give him praise where its due. You just come across as a bit pathetic. No, he's got a point. RTD stories often did feel like "baddie of the week": fun, heart-pounding, but not always terribly deep or plot consequential. I honestly can't say it's felt like that in the last 2 series. The emphasis has felt less on defeating the baddies and more on trying to work out what's going on around the "main" bit of the plot. I enjoyed most of the ending, the season was a bit of a slow burner initially, but the Neil Gaiman episode was a highlight, and afterwards, its finally kicked into life. I would have liked to have seen a bit more action when they took the base, I mean why round up a massive army if you're not going to use it dramatically! That apart, it was a good bit of sci fi, albeit with the small Moffat Achilles heel of lacking real emotional impact. That aside, I enjoyed it a lot! The whole point was that the Doctor was to reach his highest point: i.e. raise an army and achieve victory without a drop of blood shed. It was hugely symbolic. If you thought there wasn't emotional impact, then frankly you're an automaton. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 No, he's got a point. RTD stories often did feel like "baddie of the week": fun, heart-pounding, but not always terribly deep or plot consequential. I honestly can't say it's felt like that in the last 2 series. The emphasis has felt less on defeating the baddies and more on trying to work out what's going on around the "main" bit of the plot. The whole point was that the Doctor was to reach his highest point: i.e. raise an army and achieve victory without a drop of blood shed. It was hugely symbolic. If you thought there wasn't emotional impact, then frankly you're an automaton. Right...so you don't think RTD had an overwhelming series arc either? And he just arrived at an end of each series by luck? I think not. I can see his point to an extent in that it was more episodic than it is now, and you could have missed a few episodes, so I can take the point, I just reject the assertion that there wasn't a series arc, and that the endings came more by luck than by design. That is a nonsense point. There wasn't though, in my view. The Neil Gaiman episode really showed what is missing from Dr Who at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed it, I thought it was a great piece of tv, and it was well written and dramatic, but I do think it lacked emotional impact. Just my opinion. Its clearly a better standard of sci fi writing than under RTD, so its better in that regard, but I feel it loses out a bit in emotional impact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) Right...so you don't think RTD had an overwhelming series arc either? And he just arrived at an end of each series by luck? I think not. I can see his point to an extent in that it was more episodic than it is now, and you could have missed a few episodes, so I can take the point, I just reject the assertion that there wasn't a series arc, and that the endings came more by luck than by design. That is a nonsense point. I don't think they were by luck rather than design, but they weren't terribly expansive story arcs (by comparison) either. A few intra-series clues, a big battle then a big reset button. End. There wasn't though, in my view. The Neil Gaiman episode really showed what is missing from Dr Who at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed it, I thought it was a great piece of tv, and it was well written and dramatic, but I do think it lacked emotional impact. Just my opinion. Its clearly a better standard of sci fi writing than under RTD, so its better in that regard, but I feel it loses out a bit in emotional impact. You're seriously telling me that you don't think that mid-season finale had enough "emotional impact"? You really are a fucking automaton. Edited June 6, 2011 by Ad Lib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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