Game of Thrones

[Shotgun]

The art of writing fantasy fiction is to make unbelievable things believable. Dragons, magic, zombies, anything that doesn't exist in our world has to be written in such a way that we accept they exist in that world. To achieve this, the author needs to stay within certain parameters and follow certain rules, even he himself created those parameters and rules. Martin gave us dragons but wrote them in such a way that we believe in them. If at this stage in the story, the show writers have the dragons riding bicycles or drinking from china tea cups, or had characters using Smartphones to Google "How to defeat dragons" it would completely destroy the story world Martin created.

The reason people are frustrated by the writing in the later seasons is not because things are happening that couldn't happen in our world. It's because rather than staying within the outlines of the fantasy  Martin created; the show writers  are taking the easy option of making literally anything possible as long as it's convenient to the plot. And they aren't putting in the work to make it believable too. Time and space no longer have any meaning when it comes to travel, important characters are now suddenly invincible...some of the time,  and miraculous events happen at just the right time, again and again and again.

It's lame but nevertheless, it's where we are now. 

[SpoonTon]

I just still can't believe that they traveled beyond the wall to capture a wight, returned with it to King's Landing with it, went back north to defeat the Night King, returned to King's Landing to destroy the place, and Cersei still barely looked pregnant by the end. 

What were they doing, traveling by map? The kid should be out of nappies by now. 

[DA Baracus]

 

[DC92]

On 5/16/2019 at 23:08, ICTChris said:

Seasons 1-7

Makes her name freeing the slaves and defending the innocent against rapists and murderers.

Season 8

Commits genocide for no reason.

Aye, seems fair enough.

[LongTimeLurker]

There was really nothing that happened during Seasons 1-7 that looked like a warning sign that she might be a couple of cards short of a full deck?

 

[Honest_Man#1]

3 hours ago, DC92 said:

Seasons 1-7

Makes her name freeing the slaves and defending the innocent against rapists and murderers.

Season 8

Commits genocide for no reason.

Aye, seems fair enough.

Except that isn’t what happened. Guess you weren’t really paying attention.

[DC92]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

There was really nothing that happened during Seasons 1-7 that looked like a warning sign that she might be a couple of cards short of a full deck?

 

I haven't seen this for ages, but in the context of this scene, I'm pretty sure she and her people are on the brink of starving to death unless they let her into the city.

In any case, the issue isn't necessarily where she ends up (I've no doubt it's been the plan all along), it's how she got there.  She has always had a dark side to her (as do loads of "good" characters in the series), but that has been reserved for wrong 'uns and her enemies until now. What was it that made her jump from that to killing thousands of innocents for no reason exactly? You can point to how it was foreshadowed in some obscure quote from six seasons ago all you like, but most people found it jarring for a reason; it was poorly done. 

I saw someone suggest an alternative plot where, instead of Rhaegal dying in the previous episode, he is opportunistically taken out as the bells are sounding, triggering Daenerys' attack. Even this small change would have been a big improvement.

12 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

Except that isn’t what happened. Guess you weren’t really paying attention.

If you're making reference to the Ramsay quote, stop being an absolute dweeb. I don't care about happy endings, I care about good endings. This one has been a clusterfuck.

[Honest_Man#1]

47 minutes ago, DC92 said:

If you're making reference to the Ramsay quote, stop being an absolute dweeb. I don't care about happy endings, I care about good endings. This one has been a clusterfuck.

Wasn’t making any reference, just pointing out that what you’d said in the post I quoted was blatantly untrue.

[DiegoDiego]

I could nit-pick and point out inconsistencies, but the bottom line is that I'm not looking forward to the final episode anywhere near as much as I was a month and a half ago.

[Spain]

I am, because I'm not a buffoon who expected any specific type of ending.

[RandomGuy.]

25 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

I could nit-pick and point out inconsistencies, but the bottom line is that I'm not looking forward to the final episode anywhere near as much as I was a month and a half ago.

This is where I'm at. This series feels underwhelming and I've a real fear the finale is going to be the same and the ending is just going to be wedged in at the end with no real visible context.

The writers seem reliant on the fanbase explaining why things are happening.

[SpoonTon]

I was left frustrated that they had a really powerful story to tell, but they really messed up in the way that they told it. Dany has been brutal towards her enemies throughout. She's a violent figure in a violent world. We've been talking for years about how we might be watching the rise of a tyrant. But in the end they just pulled the "mad" card, which felt cheap. Like having a family history of mental illness explains her sudden mass murder of civilians. I don't think that the writers earned that moment, and that's a big shame. 

What sums it up for me is that I really didn't like the way they handled Dany's story arc, but I'm still really looking forward to reading it in the books. 

The only thing that would really save it for me is if this has been a long term plan between the children of the forest and the Three Eyed Raven (first men) to destroy the Night King and take revenge on the Andals. With Bran now pulling the strings to ensure the Starks come out on top. But I can't see them doing something like that. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by SpoonTon

[DiegoDiego]

I am, because I'm not a buffoon who expected any specific type of ending.

Neither did I and I wasn't one of those sorts who had a favourite they were rooting for either (though obviously I'll be delighted when Hot Pie and Pod joint manage the seven kingdoms). It's just not been very good television compared to what came before.

[LongTimeLurker]

Maybe I'm too cynical, but i think a lot of people have simply been conditioned by America's entertainment industry into expecting the hottest looking chick to hook up with the hottest looking dude, beat the bad guys and emerge triumphant to live happily ever after. We are watching the magnum opus of a disaffected former Hollywood script writer who wrote ASOIAF as a  colossal phuck ewe to Hollywood and its conventions . Did you really think a guy who looks like this:

and is often stated to have had that overall goal in mind with his book series was going to be on the side of a hot looking universal wid or was going to back the "cripples, b*****ds and broken things" when writing his ending?

[Savage Henry]

Maybe I'm too cynical, but i think a lot of people have simply been conditioned by America's entertainment industry into expecting the hottest looking chick to hook up with the hottest looking dude, beat the bad guys and emerge triumphant to live happily ever after. We are watching the magnum opus of a disaffected former Hollywood script writer who wrote ASOIAF as a  colossal phuck ewe to Hollywood and its conventions . Did you really think a guy who looks like this:

and is often stated to have had that overall goal in mind with his book series was going to be on the side of a hot looking universal wid or was going to back the "cripples, b*****ds and broken things" when writing his ending?

The Fonz has really let himself go.

[UpInTheAyr]

If you're making reference to the Ramsay quote, stop being an absolute dweeb. I don't care about happy endings, I care about good endings. This one has been a clusterfuck.

Not sure that's in him tbh.

[UpInTheAyr]

This is where I'm at. This series feels underwhelming and I've a real fear the finale is going to be the same and the ending is just going to be wedged in at the end with no real visible context.
The writers seem reliant on the fanbase explaining why things are happening.

I don't have a problem with how any of the characters arcs have played out, just the pace at which they've got them there the past couple seasons.

It'll be good experience for the writers having the kind of relationship they do with the fanbase. Should prepare them for when they move onto Star Wars

[Christophe]

On 18/05/2019 at 10:02, SpoonTon said:

I just still can't believe that they traveled beyond the wall to capture a wight, returned with it to King's Landing with it, went back north to defeat the Night King, returned to King's Landing to destroy the place, and Cersei still barely looked pregnant by the end. 

What were they doing, traveling by map? The kid should be out of nappies by now. 

Um yeah, pretty clear insinuation that she wasn’t pregnant at that point 

[Christophe]

19 hours ago, Spain said:

I am, because I'm not a buffoon who expected any specific type of ending.

Some people are just too far all in I guess, (who’s the guy on here who was waiting on the final episode to finish off a massive tattoo piece with whoever ends up on the throne?!?! - I mean f**k ME!)

 if anyone is truly excited about how this wraps up as they we’re a year and a half ago, they’re kidding themselves, calling people buffoons isn’t going to make this any better! 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Christophe

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, Christophe said:

Some people are just too far all in I guess, (who’s the guy on here who was waiting on the final episode to finish off a massive tattoo piece with whoever ends up on the throne?!?! - I mean f**k ME!)...

That's up there with the Hearts fan with Romanov tattooed across this back. As somebody who sees the books as being the real story and the TV series as secondary to them I'm relieved they appear to not be going through a Holywood ending, but not surprised that is causing a lot of TV show only people to turn on D&D in a big way because they are going back to being like the books again after several seasons of moving further and further away from them. Think the problem lies with the decisions that led to that more than with the last couple of episodes.