Game of Thrones

[Spain]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

The timings of those were what got me. Ayra sneaks through a library, then sprints about all over the shop randomly, while Beric/Hound stalk around corridors, yet it's exactly when shes almost killed that they come across her.

Jorah just happens to have a clear path to her to Dany the moment she needs him, yet a fraction later they're completely surrounded, did the Wights just stand back and wait until they get together?

Even the random Nights Watch managed to just save Sam before being killed.

It got beyond a joke how often that schtick was used.

The timings were on the most part a necessity of cinematic licence.

Beric/The Hound found Arya once she'd started making moves again (back the direction she'd originally came) as opposed to hiding. No significant suspension of belief needed there.

Perhaps they did overuse it in other situations, but they had to do something to keep it moving and add some tension in. A bit more of "sometimes it worked, and sometimes they didn't make it in time" wouldn't have gone amiss granted. But it's a minor thing and most of this is massive over-analysis - likely the effect of having to wait a year and a half for this.

[Swarley]

What about Lady Mormont? Brilliant to the end.

[Stellaboz]

The timings of those were what got me. Ayra sneaks through a library, then sprints about all over the shop randomly, while Beric/Hound stalk around corridors, yet it's exactly when shes almost killed that they come across her.
Jorah just happens to have a clear path to her to Dany the moment she needs him, yet a fraction later they're completely surrounded, did the Wights just stand back and wait until they get together?
Even the random Nights Watch managed to just save Sam before being killed.
It got beyond a joke how often that schtick was used.

If you hate television drama so much stop watching it then ffs. You sound like a furious old tosser sitting in his undies yelling at the screen whilst simultaneously beating it off.

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

22 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

The timings of those were what got me. Ayra sneaks through a library, then sprints about all over the shop randomly, while Beric/Hound stalk around corridors, yet it's exactly when shes almost killed that they come across her.
Jorah just happens to have a clear path to her to Dany the moment she needs him, yet a fraction later they're completely surrounded, did the Wights just stand back and wait until they get together?
Even the random Nights Watch managed to just save Sam before being killed.
It got beyond a joke how often that schtick was used.

If you hate television drama so much stop watching it then ffs. You sound like a furious old tosser sitting in his undies yelling at the screen whilst simultaneously beating it off.

What? I'm moaning that any possible tension in those scenes was ruined by the fact it was happening so often. Theres genuinely about 7 incidences of someone just about dying but being saved at the final second in that episode. You could have a decent drinking game having a drink every time someone almost dies.

Spoiler

Sam almost dies, saved just in time by Nights Watch guy.

Melisandre almost dies but lights fire, just in time.

Jon almost overwhelmed by army but Dany appears just in time.

Dany almost overwhelmed by saved by Jorah, just in time.

Ayra almost dies but saved by Beric, just in time.

Sure theres at least one scene where either Jamie and Brienne manage to save the other from being stabbed in the back, just in time. Think Beric/Hound had a similar scene too, but I could be wrong with those two.

Of course at the end literally all the major players are about to die, but Ayra kills the NK which saves them all, just in time.

I can stomach it once or twice, but it was overkill, just feels so cheap when they use that trope to build tension.

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by RandomGuy.

[Fide]

3 hours ago, bunglebonce said:

My main thoughts also.  I can forgive a lot of plot holes and miraculous life-saving elsewhere, but Bran's lack of intervention left me wondering wtf was happening.

Escapism from the horror, or deliberate procrastination because he's going to be the baddie in the end?

This is actually an interesting point.

I'm probably way off here, and I haven't seen anything else to support this, but what if Bran is destined for the throne and is destined to be the most malevolent ruler the Kingdoms have ever known?  What if the Night King saw this prophecy and was sent to kill Bran before he could become King?

What if the Night King is good and Bran is bad?  What a laugh that would be.

[Ira Gaines]

The sheer volume of brinksmanship scenes was near intolerable, but the biggest one, the waking of the dead and the Night King going, landed perfectly I thought.

The only other gripe I will go with is Jon Snow hiding behind the rock and not getting obliterated by the dragon.

[Bairnardo]

The most ridculous action gave us the most poignant scene, with the dothraki.

Other than that I agree that maybe the killing of one walker to drop some of the dead army would have led nicely into tje ending and evened the fight slightly.

[sergie's no1 fan]

What about Lady Mormont? Brilliant to the end.

Incredible.

[Jack Burton]

Thought it was a good episode but not up there with Battle of the b*****ds etc.

Was tense watching it the first time round giving GoT record in killing off characters. Was surprised a few of the other secondary characters didn't die during the battle.

There is only a few episodes to go and with the story heading to a rapid conclusion they can't go killing off the main characters as frequently now. Still expect a few of the big characters to be dead before the season end.

Agree there was things that were too predictable or unrealistic. The Dotharki charge, Arya tekeporting behind the Night King etc but it was still highly entertaining.

The main thing for me has also been the fight over the Iron Throne. The dragons and Night King have given some great scenes or episodes in the past but the politics and plotting over the Throne has always been more interesting. The Night King and the dead were always a secondary plot.

[The Master]

When he was raising the dead I actually thought the Night King was giving Jon a "'mon then" pose.

[jamamafegan]

The sheer volume of brinksmanship scenes was near intolerable, but the biggest one, the waking of the dead and the Night King going, landed perfectly I thought.
The only other gripe I will go with is Jon Snow hiding behind the rock and not getting obliterated by the dragon.

I enjoyed Jons encounter with the dragon, the dragon was weakened and in a right state so maybe it didn’t have the firepower to destroy solid rock like it did before. I loved it when he was diving into the hallways with the flames just rushing past him.

[Kyle]

23 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Seen a lot of this going about. Jon has still been the single most important character in the whole thing in terms of stopping the NK.

• Brought the wildlings through the wall to stop them joining the WWs.
• Went back and saved a bunch from Hardhome.
• First person to actually defeat one in combat (not counting sneaky wee stabs).
• Won back and united the North (without which the NK would have walked right over them).
• Convinced Dany to let them mine the dragonglass from dragonstone.
• Convinced Dany to join the Northerners in the war against the NK.
• Led the mission north of the wall where he killed another WW, giving them the first solid evidence that killing a WW kills all the wights/WWs they created.

The books and the show are all about not always giving you what you want or expect. In other shows, you'd know that Jon has a showdown with the NK and kills him, you'd know that Clegane bowl happens and the Hound kills the mountain, you'd know the goodies win, the baddies lose and the best you'll get might be one or two sad deaths to get the emotions flowing (e.g.  Avengers). Folk might like that, they might not but I don't get how so many people can watch this for teh best part of a decade and still be surprised when they can't guess everything that'll happen cos tehy've learned the rules of TV/movie plots.

I kind of agree but if he's been brought back for a purpose - as Melisandre suggested in season six I think it was - he's not served that purpose yet as he's still alive. Beric's purpose was to protect Arya in that moment of peril, there must be something for Jon down the line too. Either that or Melisandre is full of shit. 

I'd caveat quite a few of those things you've listed though;

• Brought the wildlings through the wall to stop them joining the WWs. Didn't make that much of a difference. He only saved a couple of thousands out of hundreds of thousands. More important to his character arc than to stopping the Night King.
• Went back and saved a bunch from Hardhome. I think the bigger significance of this is he saw how big a threat this was rather than the bodies he was able to bring back with him. Probably lost about as many people in the massacre as he gained from the ones he brought back on the boats.
• First person to actually defeat one in combat (not counting sneaky wee stabs). He did and it let everyone know that Valyrian Steal is effective against the walkers, as with Sam killing the other WW with the dragon glass. 
• Won back and united the North (without which the NK would have walked right over them). He was on the front line but Sansa and the Vale Lords essentially won that battle. His refusal to listen to Sansa just about lost it for his side IMO and now it's Sansa holding things together inspite of Jon rather than because of him.
• Convinced Dany to let them mine the dragonglass from dragonstone. Which helped in terms of the wider battle and holding off the wights for a spell but it didn't really have much of an effect on the end result. The Night King just replenished his army half way through the battle anyway.
• Convinced Dany to join the Northerners in the war against the NK. No arguments there 
• Led the mission north of the wall where he killed another WW, giving them the first solid evidence that killing a WW kills all the wights/WWs they created. He did to try and win round Cersei. He lost one of the dragons in the process though for pretty much nothing. No arguments with the second bit but that was more luck than good judgement. 

I'm not meaning to diminish what Jon achieved but I think it's much more of a collective than what your bullet points would suggest. He was involved in a lot of the things but it's hard to argue against Bran/Sam and then Arya probably having the biggest impacts, given the first 2 provided most of the knowledge and Arya was the one to finish things off. 

[Stellaboz]

The visual of the Rhaegal crash landing into the walls and going fucking ape in the courtyard was fucking tremendous.

Also Jon and Dany bumping into each other before they had their Matrix 3 sky moment was probably more realistic than most think if there can be such a term.

[jamamafegan]

This is actually an interesting point.
I'm probably way off here, and I haven't seen anything else to support this, but what if Bran is destined for the throne and is destined to be the most malevolent ruler the Kingdoms have ever known?  What if the Night King saw this prophecy and was sent to kill Bran before he could become King?
What if the Night King is good and Bran is bad?  What a laugh that would be.

It’s plausible IMO. I wonder if Bran will head south in his wee wheelchair to Kings Landing for a battle there or if he’ll just sit by his big ol tree.

[jamamafegan]

The biggest question for me now is - who will be the Prince/Princess That Was Promised and wield Lightbringer? If something to this effect doesn’t happen I’ll be raging. I think it’s either Jon or Ayra. I’m actually slightly disappointed the promised one didn’t bring down the white walkers with lightbringer in that episode.

[The OP]

4 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

The biggest question for me now is - who will be the Prince/Princess That Was Promised and wield Lightbringer? If something to this effect doesn’t happen I’ll be raging. I think it’s either Jon or Ayra. I’m actually slightly disappointed the promised one didn’t bring down the white walkers with lightbringer in that episode.

I would be surprised if you get your wish as TPTWP prophecy and lightbringer play little to no part in the TV programme. If anything, it was Arya with the dagger. 

[NotThePars]

FWIW I don't think the problems I had with the episode stem from the episode itself. The show writers have had far less time to think of a satisfying conclusion to the major themes and narrative elements introduced from the start and I suppose at least they have attempted to do so whereas Martin is clearly going to take his endings to the grave. 

[Gordon EF]

24 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I kind of agree but if he's been brought back for a purpose - as Melisandre suggested in season six I think it was - he's not served that purpose yet as he's still alive. Beric's purpose was to protect Arya in that moment of peril, there must be something for Jon down the line too. Either that or Melisandre is full of shit. 

I'd caveat quite a few of those things you've listed though;

• Brought the wildlings through the wall to stop them joining the WWs. Didn't make that much of a difference. He only saved a couple of thousands out of hundreds of thousands. More important to his character arc than to stopping the Night King.
• Went back and saved a bunch from Hardhome. I think the bigger significance of this is he saw how big a threat this was rather than the bodies he was able to bring back with him. Probably lost about as many people in the massacre as he gained from the ones he brought back on the boats.
• First person to actually defeat one in combat (not counting sneaky wee stabs). He did and it let everyone know that Valyrian Steal is effective against the walkers, as with Sam killing the other WW with the dragon glass. 
• Won back and united the North (without which the NK would have walked right over them). He was on the front line but Sansa and the Vale Lords essentially won that battle. His refusal to listen to Sansa just about lost it for his side IMO and now it's Sansa holding things together inspite of Jon rather than because of him.
• Convinced Dany to let them mine the dragonglass from dragonstone. Which helped in terms of the wider battle and holding off the wights for a spell but it didn't really have much of an effect on the end result. The Night King just replenished his army half way through the battle anyway.
• Convinced Dany to join the Northerners in the war against the NK. No arguments there 
• Led the mission north of the wall where he killed another WW, giving them the first solid evidence that killing a WW kills all the wights/WWs they created. He did to try and win round Cersei. He lost one of the dragons in the process though for pretty much nothing. No arguments with the second bit but that was more luck than good judgement. 

I'm not meaning to diminish what Jon achieved but I think it's much more of a collective than what your bullet points would suggest. He was involved in a lot of the things but it's hard to argue against Bran/Sam and then Arya probably having the biggest impacts, given the first 2 provided most of the knowledge and Arya was the one to finish things off. 

Yeah, fair. I think a lot of those individual points are fairly arguable. I still think it's been pretty much's Jon's whole mission to try and stop the NK for a long time now and without him, it just wouldn't have been possible. He's the common thread pulling everything together.  Not saying others haven't made vital contributions or made more important contributions in particular cases but it hasn't been any character's sole purpose (except Bran probably) in teh same way it has been Jon's. It was more the whole, well if Jon doesn't have a big sword fight with and kill the NK, what was teh point chat I took issue with.

Also, just because Beric happened to die after his purpose was fullfilled, it doesn't mean everyone who was brought back for a purpose has to die immediately after they've achieved it.

[Bairnardo]

The visual of the Rhaegal crash landing into the walls and going fucking ape in the courtyard was fucking tremendous.

Also Jon and Dany bumping into each other before they had their Matrix 3 sky moment was probably more realistic than most think if there can be such a term.

Wasnt that Viscerion?

[Fide]

Just now, Bairnardo said:

47 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

The visual of the Rhaegal crash landing into the walls and going fucking ape in the courtyard was fucking tremendous.

Also Jon and Dany bumping into each other before they had their Matrix 3 sky moment was probably more realistic than most think if there can be such a term.

Wasnt that Viscerion?

Yeah, Viserion was the rogue dragon.