Game of Thrones

[jamamafegan]

Did the dragon Jon was riding die and come back as the dead dragon that was about to kill him at the end? Or was that the NK’s dragon that was still alive?

[Clyde01]

Even before the battle I’m wondering if tormund is the only wildling left in Westeros?

The remains of the Nights watch seem to have just disappeared too. Seems they have conveniently diluted these groups into a single figurehead in tormund/Ed.

Night King and white walkers were pretty shite in the end. Most of their appearances across the full show have involved standing around looking badass but actually done next to f**k all.

Also found it hard to believe that so many secondary characters survived the battle. Pod, Brienne, Jamie (can’t fight for shit these days), greyworm, tormund, davos. At the end when the dead all dropped there was about 5 c***s left and they were all named characters.

Then Melisandre just walks out in the snow and snuffs it like she escaped from a care home. The lord of lights grand plan for her was to light some Dothraki swords that were ineffective as f**k, start a fire that held the dead up for about 5 minutes and give Arya a pep talk. Job done off you pop. Pish.

[Shotgun]

6 minutes ago, Clyde01 said:

Then Melisandre just walks out in the snow and snuffs it like she escaped from a care home. The lord of lights grand plan for her was to light some Dothraki swords that were ineffective as f**k, start a fire that held the dead up for about 5 minutes and give Arya a pep talk. Job done off you pop. Pish.

[D'Jaffo]

Did the White Walkers actually kill off anyone at any point in the show?

[RandomGuy.]

8 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

Did the dragon Jon was riding die and come back as the dead dragon that was about to kill him at the end? Or was that the NK’s dragon that was still alive?

Jon's dragon is still alive, somehow, despite being ripped apart by a dragon and dropping from  huge height, head first, into the ground.. Same with Ghost, who, somehow survived getting swarmed by the dead.

And Dany, who survived being swarmed by the dead from three sides with only Jorah in front of her, and her never having shown ability with a sword before.

And Jon, who was surrounded by an entire army of the dead actually touching him, before, somehow, ended up with 200 yards of space l around. And who also survived standing in front a dragon for over 20 seconds, because it decides to set fire to him instead of trying to bite him, despite earlier being outwith bite distance, yet trying to bite, when an ice blast wouldve killed him.

And Brienne and Jamie, who, somehow, survived being crushed against a wall by a swarm of the dead.

And Ayra, who gets attacked by a swarm but survives because the dead are apparently able to push through a three inch strong door at the exact moment Beric is standing on the other side.

And Sam, who was lying on a pile of bodies surrounded by the dead.

 

Episode was good entertainment, but, as a plot, it was fucking awful. Absolute Hollywood pish with characters just escaping due to huge coincidences in terms of placement (Jon attacks the NK, exactly where Jorah is standing? And Jorah is somehow able to reach Dany, despite Jon being cut off from Winterfell by an actual army of dead, aye/Hound/Beric running down the exact corridor Ayra is in when shes about to be killed, Winterfell is meant to be fucking massive).

8 seasons of the NK being the big bad, and his death was genuinely laughable, a gust of wind in a White Walkers hair as Ayras runs past FFS  the stakes are low as f**k now, you've had the entire world fighting for their very existence, a battle to decide the fate of every living being, and now we're meant to give a f**k about who sits on a throne over six, maybe seven regions? Nah.

It's become predictable, with no threat to major characters, and weak as f**k "get outs" when things are going against the "good guys", absolute NAP Cersei is winning and some unknown weakness randomly appears to finish her off.

 

Forgot to mention the laughable dead in the crypt pish. Can you punch through concrete? Why then, would having your skeleton fester in a grave for decades make you somehow stronger? I know they dont feel pain, but still, its just ridiculous. Add to that to the Dothraki charge scene in it was wedged in just for a cool moment rather than to make any sense.

Edited April 30, 2019 by RandomGuy.

[Clyde01]

Did the White Walkers actually kill off anyone at any point in the show?

One of them killed a thenn in the hardhome episode I think before Jon snow took him out.

[Yoshi-91]

7 hours ago, wellboy1991 said:

 

Yip. Especially when the shape turned into a arrowhead.

However the geek in me thought it was a total tactical waste of a strong resource. Should have kept the Dothraki to the flanks.

 

My instant reaction "never commit your cavalry without infantry support". Too much time on total war.

[Ray Patterson]

8 minutes ago, Yoshi-91 said:

My instant reaction "never commit your cavalry without infantry support". Too much time on total war.

"Hi guys, it's Legend of total war here and today I'm gonna go through my top 5 factions on Rome II."

 

[The OP]

2 hours ago, Dazzle said:

I think if that was any other show it would be considered excellent TV, for me though its only good in GoT terms. Hardhome for me is still the best episode of any TV show ever.

One where the great sept blows up is the correct answer.

[Swarley]

One thing that still confuses me, and apologies if this has been discussed in depth before, is why they didn't use the dragons earlier?

I know there was a worry that another one might get popped by the King but even so. That amount of firepower and you don't use them until after the Dothraki have been annihilated?

Even before that. When news broke that the Dead had breached the wall I'd have sent the dragons North to confront them. Even if it were just short attacks. Burn off a few thousand at a time.

[The OP]

What confused me was the dragons not getting involved at the end if neither of them were dead. Was like in wrestling back in the day when they have a triple threat so people are inexplicably knocked out for ages to make it simpler.

[Rodhull]

38 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Jon's dragon is still alive, somehow, despite being ripped apart by a dragon and dropping from  huge height, head first, into the ground.. Same with Ghost, who, somehow survived getting swarmed by the dead.

And Dany, who survived being swarmed by the dead from three sides with only Jorah in front of her, and her never having shown ability with a sword before.

And Jon, who was surrounded by an entire army of the dead actually touching him, before, somehow, ended up with 200 yards of space l around. And who also survived standing in front a dragon for over 20 seconds, because it decides to set fire to him instead of trying to bite him, despite earlier being outwith bite distance, yet trying to bite, when an ice blast wouldve killed him.

And Brienne and Jamie, who, somehow, survived being crushed against a wall by a swarm of the dead.

And Ayra, who gets attacked by a swarm but survives because the dead are apparently able to push through a three inch strong door at the exact moment Beric is standing on the other side.

And Sam, who was lying on a pile of bodies surrounded by the dead.

 

Episode was good entertainment, but, as a plot, it was fucking awful. Absolute Hollywood pish with characters just escaping due to huge coincidences in terms of placement (Jon attacks the NK, exactly where Jorah is standing? And Jorah is somehow able to reach Dany, despite Jon being cut off from Winterfell by an actual army of dead, aye/Hound/Beric running down the exact corridor Ayra is in when shes about to be killed, Winterfell is meant to be fucking massive).

8 seasons of the NK being the big bad, and his death was genuinely laughable, a gust of wind in a White Walkers hair as Ayras runs past FFS  the stakes are low as f**k now, you've had the entire world fighting for their very existence, a battle to decide the fate of every living being, and now we're meant to give a f**k about who sits on a throne over six, maybe seven regions? Nah.

It's become predictable, with no threat to major characters, and weak as f**k "get outs" when things are going against the "good guys", absolute NAP Cersei is winning and some unknown weakness randomly appears to finish her off.

Don’t really have much issue with any of the complaints as there were a lot of questionable things that took place in the midst of battle. It was the night King’s dragon that was ripped up quite a bit though. Jon’s dragon landed on its feet and fell over after running forward from the landing. It also never really showed Ghost being swarmed. It just disappeared from the plot entirely and reappeared in next week’s episode. Not sure if that’s better or worse than what you described though. Davos seemed to perform the same trick for large parts of the battle too.

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, PB1994 said:

Does anybody else feel a bit disappointed the pretty much gave away the ending with the scene between Melisandre and Arya.

Mainly stating she would be killing people with blue eyes. I think it would have been much more subtle if they left it at the part about what you say to the god of the dead.

All that was missing was Melissandre winking at the camera in that scene.

Brutal foreshadowing.

Knew as soon as that scene happened, then you got music as everyone looked fucked, how it was going. Same as every single good v evil film/story theres ever been. (Verge of loss, sneak something out the bag, everyone thats important survives)

Edited April 29, 2019 by RandomGuy.

[Jaggy Snake]

It was a decent episode and tense as f**k but overall a little disappointing. Just a bit anti-climactic for the series main threat to be dealt with so quickly.

I agree with everything said about how poor the battle plan/tactics were. It has to be the only battle where the side defending the castle didn't throw any rocks or pour oil over the wall (something the show did in the battle at King's Landing). They actually moved the archers away and seemed quite happy to let the wights scale the wall to fight them at the top, which was never going to work.

I also would have liked just one of the White Walkers to get killed separately. They surely didn't all need to be with the Night King and could have been dispersed as commanders. You then could have had anyone kill them - Jon maybe as he actually had little impact on events. That would have caused the wights raised by that Walker to "die" and, though it wouldn't have turned the battle, it would have helped the plot in keeping so many secondary characters alive.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Jaggy Snake

[The OP]

3 minutes ago, Jaggy Snake said:

It was a decent episode and tense as f**k but overall a little disappointing. Just a bit anti-climactic for the series main threat to be dealt with so quickly.

I agree with everything said about how poor the battle plan/tactics were. It has to be the only battle where the side defending the castle didn't throw any rocks or pour oil over the wall (something the show did in the battle at King's Landing). They actually moved the archers away and seemed quite happy to let the wights scale the wall to fight them at the top, which was never going to work.

I also would have liked just one of the White Walkers get killed separately. They surely didn't all need to be with the Night King and could have been dispersed as commanders. You then could have had anyone kill them - Jon maybe as he actually had little impact on events. That would have then caused the wights raised by that Walker to "die" and, though it wouldn't have turned the battle, it would have helped the plot in keeping so many secondary characters alive.

Agreed I would’ve thought the other Others would’ve died separately. Do think the battle of Blackwater was the best so far, despite budgets being lower at the time.

Edited April 29, 2019 by The OP

[wellboy1991]

My instant reaction "never commit your cavalry without infantry support". Too much time on total war.

Haha that’s my exact problem. Total War has made me a medical military genius.

[HoBNob]

4 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Agree with this.

What great commanders are folk talking about? There's load of great warriors but no commanders. The Unsullied always follow orders, not formulate battle plans. The Dothraki have no tactics other than ride at folk full pelt. Jon was shown to be a shit strategist in the Battle of the b*****ds. Davos has always been an advisor, not a strategist. Jaime perhaps could be decent at battle planning but we haven't seen it before (his old man gave the orders). Danaerys has also been proven to be shit at making battle plans in the past.

The only good strategist they had was Tyrion, and he made a good point about being stuck in the crypt. His involvement in the initial battle plan might have been tempered by Danaerys raging at him.

Jaime is a more than competent commander, he's got good levels and understands the basics as shown when he rocks up at Rivverun and points out all the faults in a siege. 

Tyrion is meant to be one of the smartest blokes in winter fell. 

Danny/Tyrion absolutely fucked up the Lannisters using the dragons and dothraki in unison. 

Jon's a fucking idiot right enough but he's shown he knows a plan, just can't stick to it.

 

The battle plan they came up with made absolutely no sense at any point. 

3 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

, that first swat from the giant would have severely incapacitated her. It was a ridiculous, fan-service of a death.

 

If not that, the crushing of her spine probably would've done it. 

3 hours ago, UpInTheAyr said:

Probably, same reason you don't see much of Ghost, sure I read somewhere that his little cameo in ep 2 cost something like 800k.

How does it cost that much just to chuck an oversized dog in? 

1 hour ago, jamamafegan said:

Did the dragon Jon was riding die and come back as the dead dragon that was about to kill him at the end? Or was that the NK’s dragon that was still alive?

Nah both the dragons are alive, it was the Nks dragon that Jon was having a roar off with. 

24 minutes ago, Swarley said:

One thing that still confuses me, and apologies if this has been discussed in depth before, is why they didn't use the dragons earlier?

 

On the directors comments apparently they'd set the plan to lure the night King out and then attack his dragon 2 on 1, it was Danny deviating away from the plan that made them actually go in earlier apparently. 

21 minutes ago, The OP said:

What confused me was the dragons not getting involved at the end if neither of them were dead. Was like in wrestling back in the day when they have a triple threat so people are inexplicably knocked out for ages to make it simpler.

I took it that the dragons were knackered/injured

11 minutes ago, Jaggy Snake said:

.

I also would have liked just one of the White Walkers to get killed separately. They surely didn't all need to be with the Night King and could have been dispersed as commanders. 

Agreed that the tactics were shite but not dispersing the commanders makes sense, the Nk would've known that Jon had killed a white walker and in doing so killed his minions, I think that's why they recked in at the end when they thought the battle was won and there was no danger. 

[The Golden God]

I agree it was all a bit too easy. But can we remember there is still 3 episodes left. I’m 99 percent sure we’ve not heard the last of the undead/walkers/whatever

[Swarley]

I agree it was all a bit too easy. But can we remember there is still 3 episodes left. I’m 99 percent sure we’ve not heard the last of the undead/walkers/whatever

What is dead may never die?

[Lyle Lanley]

https://www.joe.co.uk/amp/entertainment/player-ratings-for-game-of-thrones-battle-of-winterfell-229662?__twitter_impression=true