The Sopranos

[Ludo*1]

The coma episodes of season 6 are a real low point. I get the overall message, and it's really well done, but by f**k do they plod along.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Aye, it definitely dragged on for too long. The rest of sesaon 6 makes up for it though.

[Guest bernardblack]

The guy was an interior decorator 

[Detournement]

On 05/04/2021 at 15:06, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Aye, it definitely dragged on for too long. The rest of sesaon 6 makes up for it though.

Paulie talking to Tony in the coma and almost killing him with his shite patter was outstanding.

The Kevin Finnerty stuff was frustrating when it was broadcast but is really interesting on a rewatch. It's all about whether Tony could have chosen another path. Plus the scene with Buscemi at the family party is linked to the final scene with the same sequence of bells ringing. 

The first time he gets shot the FBI offer him witness protection. The second time he has the Finnerty dream, third time.....

[Jupiter Jazz]

5 hours ago, Detournement said:

Paulie talking to Tony in the coma and almost killing him with his shite patter was outstanding.

"Oof Marone, he looks terrible"

[D Angelo Barksdale]

6 hours ago, Detournement said:

Paulie talking to Tony in the coma and almost killing him with his shite patter was outstanding.

The Kevin Finnerty stuff was frustrating when it was broadcast but is really interesting on a rewatch. It's all about whether Tony could have chosen another path. Plus the scene with Buscemi at the family party is linked to the final scene with the same sequence of bells ringing. 

The first time he gets shot the FBI offer him witness protection. The second time he has the Finnerty dream, third time.....

Aye, just feel it would have been better as a stand alone episode, rather than 5-10 minute scenes spread over 2 or 3 episodes. 

[NotThePars]

7 hours ago, bernardblack said:

The guy was an interior decorator 

His house looked like shit!

[scottsdad]

Currently re-watching season 6. Quality. Johnny Sack pleads guilty and so gets 15 years and loses his money, and they're still mad at him for acknowledging the existence of the organisation

[NotThePars]

That season 4 run between the crew discovering identity politics over Columbus Day and Artie briefly trying to loan money is super good. Just the most petty shite imaginable consuming these guys for entire episodes.

[Thistle_do_nicely]

8 hours ago, scottsdad said:

Currently re-watching season 6. Quality. Johnny Sack pleads guilty and so gets 15 years and loses his money, and they're still mad at him for acknowledging the existence of the organisation

god Phil was such a monumental p***k about Johnny crying when he got arrested. Even Tony came across as being a little bit more human (albeit maybe that was only because he could empathise a bit better with Johnny due to Meadow... edit: wait Tony and empathy doesn't quite sound right, but in the pure text it comes across that way, sticking up for Johnny there. interesting)

Edited April 16, 2021 by Thistle_do_nicely

[scottsdad]

Well, just finished this again. That last episode - magic. The only surprise for me was that Dr Melfi wasn't in the finale, her story having finished the episode before. Not even a wee cameo.

[Detournement]

On 16/04/2021 at 23:46, Thistle_do_nicely said:

god Phil was such a monumental p***k about Johnny crying when he got arrested. Even Tony came across as being a little bit more human (albeit maybe that was only because he could empathise a bit better with Johnny due to Meadow... edit: wait Tony and empathy doesn't quite sound right, but in the pure text it comes across that way, sticking up for Johnny there. interesting)

I don't know if you know this but Phil did 20 years in the can. Like a man. Cumming into tissues and eating grilled cheese off the radiator. Like a man. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Detournement

[Derry Alli]

Tony survived and in fact, they filmed a follow up to the Sopranos showing him living in witness protection.

[Busta Nut]

whut?

[YER SISTERS YER MAW]

whut?

I'm guessing he's referring to this;

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dazeddigital.com/film-tv/article/52637/1/short-film-scene-reveals-the-fate-of-tony-soprano-finale-james-gandolfini%3famp=1

[LongTimeLurker]

Doubt it's canon as far as David Chase is concerned given the great lengths he has gone to after being misrepresented after various interviews to maintain the ambiguity of what happens when the screen turns to black so its interpretation is left completely up to the viewer. People who vehemently insist Tony S got one behind the ear from the Member's Only jacket guy because they had some emotional need for it to end on a moralistic crime doesn't pay note appear to have missed that the B side to the Journey song he selected is Any way you want it. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't but the door was definitely left very much open for a moneyspinning sequel if James Gandolfini hadn't popped his clogs...

Edited May 3, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[Detournement]

23 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Doubt it's canon as far as David Chase is concerned given the great lengths he has gone to after being misrepresented after various interviews to maintain the ambiguity of what happens when the screen turns to black so its interpretation is left completely up to the viewer. People who vehemently insist Tony S got one behind the ear from the Member's Only jacket guy because they had some emotional need for it to end on a moralistic crime doesn't pay note appear to have missed that the B side to the Journey song he selected is Any way you want it. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't but the door was definitely left very much open for a moneyspinning sequel if James Gandolfini hadn't popped his clogs...

There's so many textual references to a final assassination of Tony that it's the only conclusion to draw if you are paying attention to the level of detail that Chase and the other writers intentionally worked into it. 

There are dozens of pointers but I think the most telling one is the exact same sequence of bells as Tony approaches the house in the coma dream and in the final scene. Meadow's voice saves Tony in the coma scene (as foreshadowed by William S Burroughs at the beginning of season 6) but at Holsteins she's too late because of taking too long to park (which is obviously another allusion to the murder of Adrianna, basically Tony paying for his ultimate crime).

If people don't want to read it that way then they obviously don't have to and the literal minded have kept the debate going for 15 years but it's a show which is often explicitly about interpreting symbolism eg Tony figuring out his mother wants to kill him and that Pussy is the rat. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Detournement

[LongTimeLurker]

I'll agree that there's a clear trend that he has lost it in the final sequence of episodes and is highly likely to get offed, wind up in jail or possibly even witness protection (speaking to the FBI about the Arabs like he did is a major no no and makes him a rat in mafia terms) in the not too distant future but my personal take is David Chase probably simply got sick of the mentality of the less cerebral portion of the audience so he wound them up big time with the ending by basically having them metaphorically whacked after a blindingly obvious reference to the Godfather had them waiting in eager anticipation for Tony's brains to wind up all over Carmela and AJ. They didn't see it coming when the screen went black and never heard a thing.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

I'll agree that there's a clear trend that he has lost it in the final sequence of episodes and is highly likely to get offed, wind up in jail or possibly even witness protection (speaking to the FBI about the Arabs like he did is a major no no and makes him a rat in mafia terms) in the not too distant future but my personal take is David Chase probably simply got sick of the mentality of the less cerebral portion of the audience so he wound them up big time with the ending by basically having them metaphorically whacked after a blindingly obvious reference to the Godfather had them waiting in eager anticipation for Tony's brains to wind up all over Carmela and AJ. They didn't see it coming when the screen went black and never heard a thing.

The audience getting whacked thing makes no sense generally (it's not a show which ever breaks the fourth wall) and specifically in that scene there is a 3 times repeated sequence of shots which should return to Tony's POV but instead after the final bell goes to black.

Then you add in Baccala saying you don't even hear it coming, the otherwise needless flashback to that scene and the Gerry Torciano hit where we experience a murder at a restaurant table from Silvio's POV. That's a lot of set up if there's no actual pay off. Those are the most obvious (to the extent of being heavy handed) clues but there are loads of other very specific choices which all point to Tony being killed by the Members Only Jacket guy coming out the bathroom.

As you say there is a strain of comment about the audience's desire to see Tony killed in the Silvio hit and the Phil hit where both are observed by crowds of gawking idiots in a completely gratuitous manner. Season 6 also begins with Agent Harris saying "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public" then throwing up which to me seems like a prediction of how the finale will be received.

I don't think talking about the Arabs to the FBI would qualify him as a rat and it's actually an allusion to Lucky Luciano's actions in WW2.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Detournement

[LongTimeLurker]

We'll have to agree to disagee. Your interpretation is one of the possibilities that could be correct but I think the problem has been that too many fans have been looking for 100% certainty over something that has deliberately been left ambiguous which brings us back to the B side of the Sopranos song...