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I'm not sure if this has already been discussed but has anyone tried the "insanity" workout DVD's? I'm mentally preparing myself for the boxset to arrive in the post from Amazon. It may cost £100 but i cancelled my gym membership over the "summer" months so see the £100 as the few months i've missed. A woman at my work followed the DVD's without the nutrition guide and the results are incredible.

If anyone has completed the insanity workout, could you manage any running/swimming on top of the workouts? Did you follow the nutrition guide included?

Edited by wee_bairn
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Ok, new to this so looking for tips.

Forty-(cough) basically slim but with a big gut that's developed over the last year or so. Used to be about 12st but I've ballooned to over 16 st and it's all around my waist.

Back in the gym as of last week doing 1 1/2 hour whole body sessions 3 time a week mixing CV with resistance machines. Out on the bike when I can and when weather permits.

I reckon diet is a big part of the weight problem - far too many McDonalds breakfasts and pies at the footy.

Cleaning up the diet is the issue. This week I've started on Slimcea shakes & a banana at lunchtime with some kind of quorn and rice in the evening.

Can anyone advise on those big tubs of powder I see at the fitness shops - what's that all about? Is it a version of Slimcea?

With what you are hoping to achieve a good diet would be far better for you than taking supplements. For weight loss you should look to eat regularly and because you are exercising you do have to make sure you have enough calories. I would try to stick mainly to low fat foods and getting hold of a scottish slimmers or weight watchers book should help give you some ideas. A big mistake often made by people trying to lose weight is not taking in enough calories or going too long without eating, if your body doesn't know when you'll be eating or isn't getting enough calories your metabolism will slow. Exercise wise I'd recommend spin classes for high intensity cardio, high calorie burn, and to quickly improve your fitness levels, an added bonus with them is that they are low impact so easy on your joints too. Weights wise I would suggest sticking to high rep sessions or even a couple of body pump classes a week.

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With what you are hoping to achieve a good diet would be far better for you than taking supplements. For weight loss you should look to eat regularly and because you are exercising you do have to make sure you have enough calories. I would try to stick mainly to low fat foods and getting hold of a scottish slimmers or weight watchers book should help give you some ideas. A big mistake often made by people trying to lose weight is not taking in enough calories or going too long without eating, if your body doesn't know when you'll be eating or isn't getting enough calories your metabolism will slow. Exercise wise I'd recommend spin classes for high intensity cardio, high calorie burn, and to quickly improve your fitness levels, an added bonus with them is that they are low impact so easy on your joints too. Weights wise I would suggest sticking to high rep sessions or even a couple of body pump classes a week.

Thanks. I'm not doing the classes this time around, the extra £10 a month on the membership made the whole thing a wee bit pricey, (I used to go to gyms but stopped last May cos of the cost). For diet, the main thing I'm hoping to do is cut out the high fat chippys, takeaways, sausages etc.

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When I got home from Australia I put about a stone on in 6 weeks since my eating habits changed so drastically. At worst I was 14"3, but I've started eating healthier and done 4 solid pre season sessions along with weights and exercise bike in the house, down to 13"8, but still got a way to go to lose the spare tyre !

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If you really want a six pack you'll have to have a low fat diet and stay off the drink.

While the gist of what you say is true, I have to correct you on the statement above. It's not a low fat diet, but a low calorie diet which is required to reduce body fat, which will in turn allow abs to show through. Yes, you can limit calories by limiting your fat intake, but you can also limit your calories through limiting your carbohydrate intake, or by limiting your protein intake (never do this, it'll result in muscle wastage which will see you lose weight, but you'll look like Kate Moss, which on a guy is not a good look).

Fat typically contains 9 calories per gram; carbohydrate and protein contain around 4-5 calories per gram. Any of that energy (calories) which is not used up will be fired on as fat. So the obvious thing to do is assume that if you restrict your fat intake, you'll restrict your calorie intake, right? Wrong. Thing is, we consume considerably more carbohydrate than we do fat or protein (on average). We don't use all that energy which we consume in carbohydrates. Think of the amount of refined flour and sugars we eat on a daily basis - white bread (including pizza bases, deli rolls, dumplings etc.), white pasta, sweets, fizzy drinks, sauces, etc. Then think about the amount of starchy carbohydrates we eat - potatoes, white rice, bread (again). A lot of them ring true in your daily diet, yeah? Most overweight people are fat on carbs. In fact, most westerners consume more carbs than we need. Yes, fat is something to consider reducing, but get the carbs sorted out.

Work out your BMR (Base Metabolic Rate) by doing an online calculator. This is your "maintaining level" of calories you need to consume per day to stay your current weight. Once you have that figure, reduce it by 200 calories a day. Do that for a week or two, and if you're not losing enough, tweek it by reducing your calories again. If you feel you're losing weight too quickly, up your calories.

If you're burning fat by reducing your calorie intake, remember to keep your protein levels high. This will help prevent muscle wastage. Keep in mind that protein takes up your calories though, so factor your protein calories into your daily amounts.

Ditch a lot of your unnecessary carbs. Things like sugar (whether in sweets, puddings, fizzy juice etc), white bread (switch to wholemeal and eat less), white pasta (switch to wholewheat pasta and restrict yourself to proper portions - 50-75g/person). Up your protein intake. Stay strict. And exercise.

If you want any further advice, just ask.

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Work out your BMR (Base Metabolic Rate) by doing an online calculator. This is your "maintaining level" of calories you need to consume per day to stay your current weight. Once you have that figure, reduce it by 200 calories a day. Do that for a week or two, and if you're not losing enough, tweek it by reducing your calories again. If you feel you're losing weight too quickly, up your calories.

Something I should add - I meant that you should reduce your calories by 200 per day and stick with that figure for 2 weeks. So, say your BMR is 1900cals, you stick to a 1700 cals intake each day for two weeks. If that's not working for you (because at the end of the day a BMR is an estimate), further reduce your calorie intake, but not massively.

And when keeping protein intake high, remember to consume at least 0.8g of protein for every 1kg of your lean body mass, though depending on your exercise routines and your overall activity levels, this can be upped to 1.8g/1kg. If you exercise regularly (and break down muscle) you will require higher amounts of protein in your diet to repair and build. Get your protein from things like grilled chicken, turkey, fish, pulses, cottage cheese etc and you'll get some decent lean protein. Just remember to take the calories into account for your overall daily intake.

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<br>And when keeping protein intake high, remember to consume <b>at least</b> 0.8g of protein for every 1kg of your lean body mass, though depending on your exercise routines and your overall activity levels, this can be upped to 1.8g/1kg.  If you exercise regularly (and break down muscle) you will require higher amounts of protein in your diet to repair and build.  Get your protein from things like grilled chicken, turkey, fish, pulses, cottage cheese etc and you'll get some decent lean protein.  Just remember to take the calories into account for your overall daily intake.<br>
<br><br>I think that you might mean grammes per pound rather than grammes per kilo.

<div><br></div><div>'Low carb' and 'low fat' approaches aren't useful for most people; those who are really interested in losing weight and improving body composition at the same time should be thinking more in terms of getting the right amount of each macronutrient.  Exactly what those 'right amounts' will be will be affected by a lot of factors including volume and type of training and what their body composition is to start with.</div>

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<br><br>I think that you might mean grammes per pound rather than grammes per kilo.

<div><br></div><div>'Low carb' and 'low fat' approaches aren't useful for most people; those who are really interested in losing weight and improving body composition at the same time should be thinking more in terms of getting the right amount of each macronutrient.  Exactly what those 'right amounts' will be will be affected by a lot of factors including volume and type of training and what their body composition is to start with.</div>

No, I meant per kilo. I also stated that 0.8g/1kg is a minimum amount required to maintain muscle mass while burning fat. This will depend entirely on the activity levels, existing muscle mass, and metabolism of the person whose goal is to burn fat (there are other factors too, but those are the main three).

When someone is overweight it is because they are consuming more calories than they use for energy. It's as simple as that. You obviously know about macros, so you understand the basic principles of energy coming from either Carbohydrates, fats, or protein. Fat people (of which I was one, and to some extent still am as I have fat still to burn, but 4 stone off so far, and that's with building muscle too) are consuming far too much of either one, two, or three of these macros. It tends to be carbs. If a fat person takes that first step of reducing their carb intake while keeping up reasonable levels of protein intake, they will see a reduction in their body fat while maintaining muscle mass.

I'm not saying they should look to have a low carb diet, just that they should work out their BMR, reduce their overall calorie intake accordingly, keep protein levels at a high enough level to avoid muscle wastage, and then cut carbs and down to fit in with the new calorific allowance. This will result in fat burn. And it will be sustainable provided they eat no more or no less than their calorific allowance (provided it's working, like I said previously, it may need adjusted). They should then ensure they eat cleaner by choosing the correct types and amounts of carbs - wholemeal/wholewheat over white in breads and pastas; Ditch the sugary drinks and sweets and replace with fruit; measure out portions of pastas, rice, and other carbs as most people tend to overestimate correct portion sizes.

Avoiding saturated fats is a must too, though not all fats are bad, some are considered essential. There are essential fats which can be found in lean meats, fish, nuts and seeds, pulses, & fruits... all things that would be found in a clean healthy diet anyway.

Yes, there's a time for looking in depth at macronutrients, and how one should incorporate them into one's diet, but in a very simple form, if someone should wish to burn fat and do so sustainably, they could follow my advice above and they will achieve that.

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No, I meant per kilo. I also stated that 0.8g/1kg is a minimum amount required to maintain muscle mass while burning fat. This will depend entirely on the activity levels, existing muscle mass, and metabolism of the person whose goal is to burn fat (there are other factors too, but those are the main three).

0.8g/kg sounds very low to me, but it does depend on the type and intensity of training. It might be adequate for, for instance, someone who was doing mainly steady state cardio (as I suppose a lot of very overweight people will be), but even in that case I'd still advise a higher intake for two reasons. Firstly, protein is digested more slowly than carbs or fat, leading to better levels of satiety in high protein diets. Secondly, it has a higher thermic effect than the other macros, which means that you'll burn more energy as heat on a high protein diet. Anecdotally, I also find that the majority of people feel that a higher protein diet leads to better energy levels.

I should make clear here that I'm not suggesting that everyone should just be downing shakes and eating chicken at every meal: one of my biggest bugbears in sports nutrition is with guys who think that all they have to do is get loads of protein without thinking about anything else. I do think that 2g/kg is a good target to aim for, though, even if in some cases that's more than is strictly necessary.

When someone is overweight it is because they are consuming more calories than they use for energy. It's as simple as that. You obviously know about macros, so you understand the basic principles of energy coming from either Carbohydrates, fats, or protein. Fat people (of which I was one, and to some extent still am as I have fat still to burn, but 4 stone off so far, and that's with building muscle too) are consuming far too much of either one, two, or three of these macros. It tends to be carbs. If a fat person takes that first step of reducing their carb intake while keeping up reasonable levels of protein intake, they will see a reduction in their body fat while maintaining muscle mass.

I'm so glad that you think that I understand the basics...

I do agree that most of the British population - indeed, even many of those who aren't overweight - probably over consume carbs. Many even think that they're being 'healthy' in doing so, with high sugar breakfast cereals often seen as a 'healthy' option at breakfast time. Carbs are the human body's preferred energy source, and - to simplify massively - will be used as fuel before fats will. Hence, although it's actually very difficult for carbs to be 'stored as fat', excessive consumption will lead to dietary fat being stored as fat.

It's therefore true that, for those who are seriously overweight, just reducing carbs and getting both carbs and fat from more healthy sources, combined with a sensible exercise plan, will initially lead to fat loss. For that reason, it's decent advice to give to beginners. As time goes on, though, it does pay to be more specific. The early fat loss is the easy part, although it may not seem that way at the time. This is something that you'll discover.

I'm not saying they should look to have a low carb diet, just that they should work out their BMR, reduce their overall calorie intake accordingly, keep protein levels at a high enough level to avoid muscle wastage, and then cut carbs and down to fit in with the new calorific allowance. This will result in fat burn. And it will be sustainable provided they eat no more or no less than their calorific allowance (provided it's working, like I said previously, it may need adjusted). They should then ensure they eat cleaner by choosing the correct types and amounts of carbs - wholemeal/wholewheat over white in breads and pastas; Ditch the sugary drinks and sweets and replace with fruit; measure out portions of pastas, rice, and other carbs as most people tend to overestimate correct portion sizes. <br style="font-family: verdana, tahoma, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(253, 253, 253); ">Avoiding saturated fats is a must too, though not all fats are bad, some are considered essential. There are essential fats which can be found in lean meats, fish, nuts and seeds, pulses, & fruits... all things that would be found in a clean healthy diet anyway.
<br style="font-family: verdana, tahoma, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(253, 253, 253); ">

I've answered a fair amount of this in my last paragraph, so I'll just pick up on a few points here. The first one is about healthy fats; it's entirely true that they should be a cornerstone of any diet (particularly those found in oily fish), although I'm intrigued as to which pulses and fruits you consider to be high in them (unless you're counting avocado as a fruit, which it technically is. I wouldn't put it in a fruit salad, though), but if we're talking about reducing overall caloric intake then it should be noted that fats are extremely calorie dense. A good guideline is to get 15-30% of overall calories from fats (actually, percentages aren't necessarily the most useful way of working this out: g/kg bodyweight or lean bodyweight is better), but measuring is vital. A lot of people will, for instance, drown stuff with olive oil or eat huge portions of nuts on the basis that it's 'good for them'; generally speaking it is, but portions should be carefully controlled if losing weight is the goal.

You've also said that avoiding saturated fats is 'a must'; I'll only partially agree there, on the basis that there is a safe level that can be consumed. Indeed, there's even still some controversy on whether or not certain saturated fats are bad for health at all. The real ones to watch out for are hydrogenated fats: these are man made fats which we haven't evolved eating, and research would indicate that the only 'safe intake' is zero. These are mainly found in processed foods, so a diet based mainly on whole foods is once again the way to go (it's worth pointing out here that you'll even find hydrogenated fats in quite a lot of so-called 'health foods', with protein bars a particular culprit. It pays to read labels).

Finally, you've said to 'reduce sweets and sugary drinks with fruit'. Whilst it's true that sweets and sugary drinks should be cut down, I'd advise a moderate fruit intake as a high fructose intake is associated with increased fat storage. This is because fructose is stored as liver glycogen rather than muscle glycogen; this is a smaller store, so excess fructose leads to elevated blood sugar levels and decreased fat burn. I'm not, of course, saying that people shouldn't be eating fruit, but I do think that two pieces a day is around the right amount. At least servings of fruit and veg a day is a good target to aim for, but the majority of that should be veg.

Yes, there's a time for looking in depth at macronutrients, and how one should incorporate them into one's diet, but in a very simple form, if someone should wish to burn fat and do so sustainably, they could follow my advice above and they will achieve that.

As I've touched upon earlier in my post I'd agree that it's good advice for beginners, but it'll only last so long. For as long as you're on a caloric deficit, you should continue losing weight (although it'll slow down after a while; the human body has evolved to adjust to periods of famine, and can't tell the difference between an intentional caloric deficit and starvation. 'Cheat meals' and weeks of going back up to maintenance calories can both work as effective ways around this), but as things progress it becomes necessary to start properly calculating macros.

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Right, there's an awful lot of info in this thread, although it's obviously quite varied for different people. Hopefully someone can give some advice.

I'm 24, about 12st, quite slim. I play quite a lot of football and go running regularly, with the odd gym session and weights bench session in the house thrown in. I am probably the fittest I've been cardio-wise in my life. Last week I tore my ankle ligaments and haven't to do any cardio for 4-6 weeks.

I go on holiday to Ibiza in 5 weeks, so have decided that I'll focus on the weights taining to get trim for the holiday. I'm not fussed about protein powders etc really, just looking for a list of exercises I can stick to to bulk up arms, chest, abs. Also some dietary advice would be good - as I won't be doing any cardio work I'm conscious of how to keep the belly at bay whilst still giving my body enough fuel to turn into muscle.

Any help appreciated, cheers.

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I'm not sure if this has already been discussed but has anyone tried the "insanity" workout DVD's? I'm mentally preparing myself for the boxset to arrive in the post from Amazon. It may cost £100 but i cancelled my gym membership over the "summer" months so see the £100 as the few months i've missed. A woman at my work followed the DVD's without the nutrition guide and the results are incredible.

If anyone has completed the insanity workout, could you manage any running/swimming on top of the workouts? Did you follow the nutrition guide included?

I have mixed feelings about Insanity and P90X and the like. They're good because it gets folk off their arses and really pushes them. But what happens after the program? Do you keep doing the last DVD/Workout? Seems like it's the excercise equivalent of a diet. Great for short term, but then you lull back into old ways and habits.

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Started doing the beep test lately. Its fucking horrific.

Upto level 13.6 now. It is not like the one at school where the first few levels can be walked. Start off at a brisk jog. There was a professional footballer doing it with us and he got 15.4 so I feel my score is pretty good!

I hate the bleep test. Don't know why but when I had the choice of the fitness test I would always opt for the 2.4km run.

13.6 is a great score on the test.

If you go to page 11 on this link then you find out the fitness requirements for the navy.

http://www.pdevportal.co.uk/pdf/RNTF_policy_and_protocols/RNFT_Policy_and_Protocols.pdf

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you can incorporate them into a fitness regime.

i have done both of them going from 21 stone to 16 stone in just over a year, and now i do p90x for my weights and jog/do insanity for cardio.

they've also helped me learn about what i should be eating and how it affects your body.

i'd recommend doing them, but don't be half arsed with it.

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When I was on anti-depressants for 15 months my weight went through the roof. I went from being 19stone to 22 and a half stone. In may I started eating more healthy again and started to do more exercise. Even though I play rugby the weight still piled on me in those 15 months.

In May I started off by going for a jog during the close season twice a week and in June pre-season training started back up which has been brilliant. Hard sessions three times a week whilst also going to the gym three times a week. My weight is now currently at 21 stone and hopefully get down to 20 stone by the start of September. I see 19/20 stone as ideal for me as I although I'm heavy I'm 6ft5 tall. Played rugby for years, done fieldgun in the navy for years and have always lifted weights.

I've been following my own weights workout to help get my strength back up. My best period for weights was in the Falklands in 2010. They had a challenge to bench 150% of your body weight and my goal was 180kg before I left I managed to get up to 150kg. Leg press was 400kg squats was 150kg deadlift was 140kg and arm curl was 80kg.

Currently at 90kg for bench press, 310kg for leg press, 80kg for squats, 90kg deadlift and 60kg for arm curls. It's slowly but surely getting there and at the end of the month I'm going to switch to the workout I used down the Falklands the Doug Lawrenson's four day strength workout.

Supplements I use. Universal animal pak(amino acids, minerals, multivitamins), animal stak(test booster) and animal test(test booster. Although not using this just now as waiting till end of the month to add it in) also use phd pharma-whey protein but thinking of switching to the 4kg tubs you get from bodybuildingwarehouse.co.uk great value at £43 a tub.

My aim has always been strength and not a physique.

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/maximum-strength-workout.html

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When I was on anti-depressants for 15 months my weight went through the roof. I went from being 19stone to 22 and a half stone. In may I started eating more healthy again and started to do more exercise. Even though I play rugby the weight still piled on me in those 15 months.

In May I started off by going for a jog during the close season twice a week and in June pre-season training started back up which has been brilliant. Hard sessions three times a week whilst also going to the gym three times a week. My weight is now currently at 21 stone and hopefully get down to 20 stone by the start of September. I see 19/20 stone as ideal for me as I although I'm heavy I'm 6ft5 tall. Played rugby for years, done fieldgun in the navy for years and have always lifted weights.

I've been following my own weights workout to help get my strength back up. My best period for weights was in the Falklands in 2010. They had a challenge to bench 150% of your body weight and my goal was 180kg before I left I managed to get up to 150kg. Leg press was 400kg squats was 150kg deadlift was 140kg and arm curl was 80kg.

Currently at 90kg for bench press, 310kg for leg press, 80kg for squats, 90kg deadlift and 60kg for arm curls. It's slowly but surely getting there and at the end of the month I'm going to switch to the workout I used down the Falklands the Doug Lawrenson's four day strength workout.

Supplements I use. Universal animal pak(amino acids, minerals, multivitamins), animal stak(test booster) and animal test(test booster. Although not using this just now as waiting till end of the month to add it in) also use phd pharma-whey protein but thinking of switching to the 4kg tubs you get from bodybuildingwarehouse.co.uk great value at £43 a tub.

My aim has always been strength and not a physique.

http://www.muscleand...th-workout.html

Same for me, i went from 12 stone 10, to 17 stone in the space of a year when on Antidepressants, probably mainly because i stopped doing anything physical,

i used to walk at least 6 miles a day and play football 3 times a week , along with other activities which just stopped when i fell into depression,

it's a b*****d of a thing, and something that should get more recognition imo!!

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My gym's been shut for 4 weeks due to flooding but is re-opening on Thursday. I've been on holiday for about half that time as well so just trying to keep myself ticking over by doing circuits in the house, which is no comparison really. Looking forward to getting back into it.

However, I've been doing a bit of reading and I'm interested in doing an Intermittent Fasting programme (which incorporates an element of carb cycling). I think it generally suits my own lifestyle anyway rather than the "traditional" method of 6 small meals, as I really struggle to eat in the morning before work so would normally force myself to down a pint of milk as some kind of protein source. Plus I do like to eat big meals so 3 big meals in 8 hours (big lunch, mid afternoon meal / sandwich and big dinner) isn't really a problem, but...

I also worked out that I'm going to have to up my protein intake to ~ 130g per day, which is much higher than I'm used to, as I don't use supplements (except for a daily multivitamin). By my maths I'm looking at -every day- 1l of skimmed milk (34g protein), 1 x 205g packet of wafer thin ham (35g ), 1 tin tuna (35g ) , that still leaves me ~ 25g to get from veggies / grains etc. which works out about £3-4 a day.

Milk seems to be far and away the cheapest way, just need to be careful about the total calories. The guys that are taking on this much (or higher) now- how do you manage it, and without getting bored of eating tuna & eggs all the time? Supplements or just lots of different sources?

*opens another packet of ham*

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After a fortnight in Cyprus mainly drinking cans of Keo, eating Lamb Kleftiko and chips and smoking menthol fags I have decided to make a conscious move to get healthier and try and lose some weight. I have been trying to mix up my gym sessions a bit more, I used to basically just do HIIT and weight training, I'm incorporating more steady state cardio on the cross trainer and rower now. I can only make it to the gym for an hour or so most nights so try and split it - 20 mins on cross trainer, 20 mins on rower, 10-15 minute HIIT.

In terms of diet, I'm going to try and reduce the ammount of carbs I eat and cut out sugary drinks, crisps and snacks. I'm wary of eating too much fruit as that's the easy alternative. What are the best nuts to eat as snack replacements?

My food today is probably what I'm going to try and follow:

Breakfast - Granola and yoghurt.

Morning snack - Apple

Lunch - Pasta box (pasta, sausage, cucumber, tomato, peas and chickpeas with a pesto dressing); fruit salad

Afternoon snack - Banana

Dinner - Grilled chicken breast, salad, potato, coleslaw. Low fat yoghurt.

I think I'm probably eating too much fruit and a bit too much fat. I am only drinking water and a couple of cups of coffee.

Any of the knowledgable people on here ready to tell me where I'm going wrong? I also quite often have poached eggs for breakfast to try and get more protein into my diet. Should I install a rotisserie on my desk and chomp on suckling pig all day to keep my meat count high?

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After a fortnight in Cyprus mainly drinking cans of Keo, eating Lamb Kleftiko and chips and smoking menthol fags I have decided to make a conscious move to get healthier and try and lose some weight. I have been trying to mix up my gym sessions a bit more, I used to basically just do HIIT and weight training, I'm incorporating more steady state cardio on the cross trainer and rower now. I can only make it to the gym for an hour or so most nights so try and split it - 20 mins on cross trainer, 20 mins on rower, 10-15 minute HIIT.

In terms of diet, I'm going to try and reduce the ammount of carbs I eat and cut out sugary drinks, crisps and snacks. I'm wary of eating too much fruit as that's the easy alternative. What are the best nuts to eat as snack replacements?

My food today is probably what I'm going to try and follow:

Breakfast - Granola and yoghurt.

Morning snack - Apple

Lunch - Pasta box (pasta, sausage, cucumber, tomato, peas and chickpeas with a pesto dressing); fruit salad

Afternoon snack - Banana

Dinner - Grilled chicken breast, salad, potato, coleslaw. Low fat yoghurt.

I think I'm probably eating too much fruit and a bit too much fat. I am only drinking water and a couple of cups of coffee.

Any of the knowledgable people on here ready to tell me where I'm going wrong? I also quite often have poached eggs for breakfast to try and get more protein into my diet. Should I install a rotisserie on my desk and chomp on suckling pig all day to keep my meat count high?

For f**k sake!

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