The get fit, stay fit thread

[Islay]

• Firstly, I'm not aiming to build muscle per se at all; I train for Muay Thai, so my nutrition's more geared towards performance than aesthetics in the first place. As far as Martin Berkhan's website goes I'm aware of it, but as far as I can remember he doesn't actually advocate fasted training at all; his version of IF involves 16 hour fasts followed by a small meal before training and two larger ones after. Been a while since I looked, but that's certainly my recollection.
• I'm aware of the science behind fasted training, but it's still controversial. Some will argue that eating before training improves performance to an extent which negates the benefits of training in a fasted state, and it's certainly true that post exercise oxygen consumption is better if you eat before training (although to a relatively minor extent). As I say, I'm not saying that fasted training is any worse than non-fasted training (especially if you take BCAAs), I just don't think that it's that much better either. To my mind, hitting your macros is overwhelmingly more important and the fasted vs non-fasted thing comes down more to personal preference. My approach is to go lowish carb, moderate protein and high fat before training and low fat, moderate protein and high carb afterwards (it's a modified version of this. My only slight change is to go with two high carb meals, one of which can be early in the day if that's when I train, and the second of which is always a couple of hours before bed).
• I do agree with you about over-consumption of protein, just thought that you explained it in a bit of a weird way. I think that most people who think that they're 'into sports nutrition' over-consume protein and under-consume carbs; this won't lead to weight gain as such because it balances to an extent, but it's sub-optimal. If you're taking on too much protein, then in order to not gain weight you'll need to be going lower than you should be on either carbs, fat or both. I should probably add here that I tend to go a bit higher than 2g protein per kg bodyweight and make it up by taking on less carbs, but that's because I've found through trial and error that I seem to recover better that way; it's a personal thing which I wouldn't recommend to anyone else.
• My own training pattern is pretty much that I train every day unless I feel that I really need a rest (I believe that I've been training long enough now to know when to listen to my body). At the moment, that means five kickboxing sessions a week (can't get MT here) of between 90-120 minutes at a time as well as one gym day and one day of pure cardio. As I say, I'm training for performance rather than aesthetics, so I don't need to be prescriptive about 'rest days' in the way that I would if my only focus was looking good naked.

Edit: we can probably stop using bullet points if you want.

Aye will probably stop bullet pointing now

Martin Berkhan has different set ups for when his clients train, his basic regime is outlined below:

"Training is initiated on an empty stomach and after ingestion of 10 g BCAA or similar amino acid mixture. This "pre-workout" meal is not counted towards the feeding phase. Technically, training is not completely fasted - that would be detrimental. The pre-workout protein intake, with its stimulatory effect on protein synthesis and metabolism, is a crucial compromise to optimize results. The 8-hour feeding phase starts with the post-workout meal.Sample setup11.30-12 AM or 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA12-1 PM: Training1 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal of the day).4 PM: Second meal.9 PM: Last meal before the fast."

I don't follow his regimes however I do ingest BCAA's because of the benefits they have towards 'fasted training' on an empty stomach when building muscle. The early morning training regime promotes 'fasted training' (with the ingestion of BCAA's) whereas people with flexible working hours would follow the one that you recall which results in a proper pre-workout meal. As he states it's technically not completely fasted because of the inclusion of BCAA's, however he refers to it as Fasted Training. Some very decent points above though. And I did explain the over-consumption of protein in a rather strange way, apologies!

Edited April 14, 2012 by Islay

[Mak]

Aye will probably stop bullet pointing now

Martin Berkhan has different set ups for when his clients train, his basic regime is outlined below:

"Training is initiated on an empty stomach and after ingestion of 10 g BCAA or similar amino acid mixture. This "pre-workout" meal is not counted towards the feeding phase. Technically, training is not completely fasted - that would be detrimental. The pre-workout protein intake, with its stimulatory effect on protein synthesis and metabolism, is a crucial compromise to optimize results. The 8-hour feeding phase starts with the post-workout meal.Sample setup11.30-12 AM or 5-15 minutes pre-workout: 10 g BCAA12-1 PM: Training1 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal of the day).4 PM: Second meal.9 PM: Last meal before the fast."

I don't follow his regimes however I do ingest BCAA's because of the benefits they have towards 'fasted training' on an empty stomach when building muscle. The early morning training regime promotes 'fasted training' (with the ingestion of BCAA's) whereas people with flexible working hours would follow the one that you recall which results in a proper pre-workout meal. As he states it's technically not completely fasted because of the inclusion of BCAA's, however he refers to it as Fasted Training. Some very decent points above though. And I did explain the over-consumption of protein in a rather strange way, apologies!

Ah right, makes more sense now. Like I said, I wasn't saying that there's anything wrong with fasted workouts as such; I train fasted myself sometimes if it's more convenient, although I really don't enjoy doing it (again, that's a personal thing).

Good to have a discussion about nutrition which hasn't just descended into 'which brand of protein should I use?' or 'Jack3d is pure quality' as is usually the case on threads like this!

[11thHour]

Can someone give me a few examples of resistance training?

[Reynard]

Can someone give me a few examples of resistance training?

Anything where you are pushing/pulling against weight, whether your own body weight or using weights down the gym.

[Stuart]

Anyone have any nutritional advice?

I'm looking to lose weight and have been doing p90x.

I've already lost 4 stone but have reached my weight loss plateau and need some advice for in the kitchen

[Maverick_89]

Anyone have any nutritional advice?

I'm looking to lose weight and have been doing p90x.

I've already lost 4 stone but have reached my weight loss plateau and need some advice for in the kitchen

How did you find the PX90? I downloaded aquired it a while ago but never committed to it. I've been slowly loosing it through a mixture of a high protein diet consisting of roughly 1700 calories per day and around 30 mins of cardio with some work with resistance bands after that. Don't know whether the PX90 will help shift the final bit of the beer belly and tone up

[Stuart]

It's great but ye really need to motivate yourself at points. Very hard to not just say 'f**k this' and stop.

Into my second week today and I've lost 3 pounds and an inch off my waist so it must be working.

[ICTChris]

Just did my first exercise in a month after a bad back. 45 minutes on the shitey stationary bike in the flat and some weights with my dumbells.

Will probably venture back to the gym this week and then jiu jitsu next.

[ICTChris]

Have had a chesty cold all week so no further exercise. f**k off ill health!

[lanky_ffc]

Have had a chesty cold all week so no further exercise. f**k off ill health!

Man up

[TheScarf]

The P90X is a good concept, but what happens after the 90 days? Do you just keep doing the last DVD?

[flogelsleftpeg]

First post on here, Ive lost stone and a half in the last 6 weeks. Up to running 2.5 miles on the tread mill, but have hit a bit of a weight loss barrier. Any tips?

[Drooper]

Cut out all the shite you normally eat during the week, and do some exercise that you can fit into your daily routine (cycle to work/uni; run at lunchtime; go for a swim pre/post work etc.). If you can resist the tempatation to eat sweeties, cakes and other shite like that, and not drink alcohol or consume sugar-laced soft drinks during the week, then you can let yourself go a bit at the weekend.

I've been doing this for a couple of years (give or take the odd lapse), and have pretty much hovered around my 'ideal' weight. I'm also fitter than I've ever been since I was a young boy.

Commuting by bike is my exercise of choice, with weekend and evening rides when I get a chance. I've signed up to various sportive events in order to have a goal and a bit of achievement to look forward to, and find my mental health has improved when I'm regularly exercising.

It's all about self-discipline and restraint.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Drooper

[flogelsleftpeg]

Ive cut out all the shite in my diet, gyming it 4/5 times a week. Been stuck at 13stone for a couple of weeks.

[flogelsleftpeg]

Any one on here following a low carb diet?

[SteamingparBoz]

New job has the benefit of free usage of the gym. Haven't been in years and need to lose a couple of stone at the very least.

[Mak]

First post on here, Ive lost stone and a half in the last 6 weeks. Up to running 2.5 miles on the tread mill, but have hit a bit of a weight loss barrier. Any tips?

Ive cut out all the shite in my diet, gyming it 4/5 times a week. Been stuck at 13stone for a couple of weeks.

Any one on here following a low carb diet?

How long has this 'plateau' been going on for? It seems unlikely to me that it can have been all that prolonged if you've only been dieting for six weeks. Otherwise, it'd be pretty difficult to give advice without knowing exactly what you're doing.

As far as low carb diets go, arbitrarily cutting out one food group is never going to be a good idea. There's nothing wrong with a moderate carb intake, particularly if you're doing a lot of exercise; you might lose weight at first on a low-carb diet because less carbs = less calories, but it will be neither optimal or sustainable. Focussing on controlling portion sizes and getting them from better sources would be a much better thing to do at this stage.

[flogelsleftpeg]

Ive been 13 stone for about 3 weeks, went from 14.5 to 13 in the first 5/6 weeks. Im eating weight watchers meals so my portion size is controlled through that.

Im looking to get to 12.5 by the 25th of May. Been told it might be something to do with upping the amount of weights I am doing in the gym and muscle being heavier than fat.

Also looking for tips on toning my stomach but thats another matter.

[Moriarty]

Cut out all the shite you normally eat during the week, and do some exercise that you can fit into your daily routine (cycle to work/uni; run at lunchtime; go for a swim pre/post work etc.). If you can resist the tempatation to eat sweeties, cakes and other shite like that, and not drink alcohol or consume sugar-laced soft drinks during the week, then you can let yourself go a bit at the weekend.

I've been doing this for a couple of years (give or take the odd lapse), and have pretty much hovered around my 'ideal' weight. I'm also fitter than I've ever been since I was a young boy.

Commuting by bike is my exercise of choice, with weekend and evening rides when I get a chance. I've signed up to various sportive events in order to have a goal and a bit of achievement to look forward to, and find my mental health has improved when I'm regularly exercising.

It's all about self-discipline and restraint.

Would echo this.

In the first 9 months of last year, I lost about 25 pounds by stepping up the exercise and eating a bit more sensibly. Through the winter I didn't do anything like as much exercise, but continued to eat pretty well and lost another 4 pounds. Hovering around my ideal weight now. Doing exercise to get the weight off in the first place is really important, but just as important in my opinion is a decent diet because there will be times in everyone's life when the exercise lessens and that's when the weight can go back on.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Moriarty

[Mak]

Ive been 13 stone for about 3 weeks, went from 14.5 to 13 in the first 5/6 weeks. Im eating weight watchers meals so my portion size is controlled through that.

Im looking to get to 12.5 by the 25th of May. Been told it might be something to do with upping the amount of weights I am doing in the gym and muscle being heavier than fat.

Also looking for tips on toning my stomach but thats another matter.

Okay, first of all if you're on a caloric deficit then you'll always lose weight; if you aren't losing weight, then it isn't because of 'muscle weighing more than fat', but because you aren't burning more calories than you're consuming. In order to gain weight through muscle, you'd need to be eating more calories than you were burning. That's not necessarily to say that you can't gain muscle whilst on a caloric deficit, especially not if you were fairly overweight to start with, but you'd still be losing weight.

You've mentioned Weightwatchers meals: whilst the Weightwatchers diet will probably work, at least in the short term, if followed correctly, eating their meals won't necessarily be enough on its own. A much more sustainable and enjoyable way of doing things is to cook your own meals from scratch, making sure to only use healthy ingredients and keep an eye on portion sizes. If you've only been at it for a couple of months then I don't think that jumping straight into counting calories and macronutrients is necessarily a good idea, but try to make one small change every week and stick to it. Base meals around lean proteins such as chicken and white fish, slow release carbs such as quinoa, brown rice and oats and make sure to get enough healthy fats from sources such as nuts, seeds, avocado and oily fish. Eat as many portions of fresh vegetables as possible, as well as around 1-2 pieces of fruit a day. Cut out stuff like sweets, crisps and fizzy juice (fruit juice too, while I'm at it; if you want fruit, eat fruit).

There's a good deal of more specific advice elsewhere in this thread but I think that there's a danger of people like me blinding people with figures to try and show off how clever we are, which can actually just be discouraging. The starting point for anyone wanting to lose weight and become fitter should just be to start thinking in terms of eating healthily. It's only really worth complicating matters further once you're firmly set in those good habits.