The Falkirk FC Thread

[Syd Puddefoot]

If folk that can afford it don't want to sign up then fine, but please, please don't moan and complain if we go hybrid/ part time and the playing budget is cut .

[ShaggerG]

39 minutes ago, AGPar said:

You've been openly asking on here for the reasons why people have not signed up.

And the simplest answer - in the politest possible terms - is that is it absolutely none of your - or anyone else's - business. It is not for you to understand

The whole "buying a season ticket/paying at the gate/going home and away is no longer enough" uberfan w****r narrative that intermittently rears its head can just get so, so, so far into the sea. And stay there.

Aye, very good. We're trying to do something good with the FSS but we're not getting the numbers that we need to make sure it succeeds. Surely trying to understand why that is can't be a bad thing? IMO, to encourage more people to sign up we need to understand why they haven't so far. I should add also that I merely subscribe to the FSS, I'm not on the committee or on the BOD or anything like that but I would like it to succeed (or else I wouldn't have subscribed) and won't apologise for trying to promote it.

I never at any point said that buying a season or anything else wasn't enough, once again you're trying to put words in my mouth. And please don't don't refer to me as an 'uberfan', I am not suggesting that fans who 'only' pay at the gate or buy a season or whatever are not good enough - we're surely all in the same boat?

[ShaggerG]

26 minutes ago, PedroMoutinho said:

For your £250 quid season ticket money you get access to 18 league games. For your £120 FSS contribution, you don’t hey anything tangible.

Surely it’s pretty self explanatory what the difference is and why one scheme is far more popular than the other.

Don't really think that needs a reply TBH.

[ShaggerG]

17 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Yes 

I'll bow to your superior knowledge on the subject then. Surely can't be by much though?

[Duncan Freemason]

2 hours ago, Springfield said:

I think you’ve got to ask the question why have only 620 contributed, when we’ve got a core support just shy of 4000 in division 1 or the third tier of Scottish football. Yes the horror of inflation/fuel/food hikes. But maybe just maybe the fans have had their fill and waiting to see what this season brings.

Our stretch target is probably around 1,000 members. There is only the well of paid up ST holders to drink from for 80% of the FSS membership. A family of say 2 parents and 2 young kids are not going to take out 4 FSS subscriptions.

Edited January 18 by Duncan Freemason

[gav-ffc]

38 minutes ago, ShaggerG said:

Do we have smaller crowds than we did 4 years ago?

Our last 2 fixtures pre covid we had 3561 against Montrose and 3507 against Peterhead.

3771 on Saturday v Clyde. 

[Braes_Bairn]

1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

The minimum you can buy is 1000 shares costing £400.

Exactly my point. I’m sure a share save scheme where supporters actually get shares in their own name would be popular. 

[RC55 FFC]

Just to add, for those not wishing to join FSS but do want to invest themselves, any existing shareholder can buy ANY amount of additional shares & not that minimum amount of £400 that’s in place for new shareholders. 

Also, any new shareholder can opt to pay for their £400 block in instalments too if they wish but the share certificate won’t be issued until final payment obviously. 

This came from the club recently when asked. 

[SouthStander1876]

22 minutes ago, Duncan Freemason said:

Our stretch target is probably around 1,000 members. There is only the well of paid up ST holders to drink from for 80% of the FSS membership. A family of say 2 patents and 2 young kids are not going to take out 4 FSS subscriptions.

Was going to mention this, a big portion of the fan base are children and teenagers who will still be and school, and if not, on a very low wage. So will not be attainable, I’d say maybe 20%ish are under 20 so that takes a big chunk of season ticket holders out of the equation for FSS

[Reggie Perrin]

2 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

50% is, IMO still not nearly enough if fan ownership is going to be achieved 

Fan ownership will not happen in my opinion.

 

[Duncan Freemason]

Thing is, even with our perceived low uptake of 610 members, the monies raised are fairly quickly racking up a significant shareholding in the club to a point where all unsold shares will be swallowed up in a few years. Then what? Do the club then issue a new raft of shares to dilute everyone’s current shareholding by a significant %?

Or do we have the likes of the Rawlins (remember them?) seeking to unload their shares to the FSS (and in the process, contribute not one penny to the club).

[Brockvillenomore]

1 hour ago, AGPar said:

You've been openly asking on here for the reasons why people have not signed up.

And the simplest answer - in the politest possible terms - is that is it absolutely none of your - or anyone else's - business. It is not for you to understand

The whole "buying a season ticket/paying at the gate/going home and away is no longer enough" uberfan w****r narrative that intermittently rears its head can just get so, so, so far into the sea. And stay there.

You know both sides of this debate can actually be right. As a support we all have different perspectives, priorities outside the FFC bubble, expectations etc.

What we need to avoid is for these differences to become something that divides us and is used as a stick to batter each other over the head with  

We can’t deny is the facts and the reality these facts impose on all Falkirk supporters  

Fact 1. In our third season in League One our financial position while maintaining FT football isn’t positive. The rumours, if true about our loss last financial year says it all. 

Fact 2. For the last decade we’ve lost an average of £400k a year in both the championship and league one.

Fact 3. This season the BoD planned to lose that amount in the belief that we’d all buy the unissued shares. For whatever reason or reasons the level of take up didn’t materialise. 

Fact 4.  Based on all this fan ownership doesn’t like an option to get us promotion and challenge for the Premiership next season or the season after and arguably the season after  

Those that can afford to pay a little bit more over and above their ST etc should do so. 

Those that can’t or don’t want to aren’t a lesser supporter. 

Ultimately the coming weeks and months will probably decide what path we end up on and what sort of team we have on the park next season. 

The reality is the more that support FSS, or buy shares individually, or join the patrons the better chance we will have to succeed, unless we find a multi millionaire happy to lose £500k to £600k a year for the joy of seeing Falkirk back in the premiership. 
 

[Duncan Freemason]

Or perhaps some sort of study to better understand where our overheads sit amongst those of our competitors. We have been unable to best several L1 clubs these past few years all of whom operate on half or less of our turnover.

Now the Launderers might not be the perfect example, but other than that which goes unspoken, how is it a club with a core support of 800 (on a good day) outperform us with monotonous regularity. Like us, they occupy an ostensibly council owned facility, but pay rent on a sliding scale depending on what league they are in (in the top flight, it’s peppercorn, in the lower leagues, it’s half of sod all). All this in exchange for providing the good people on their council with a nice hospitality box.

They have a Trust that puts in less than £2k per season…..they have nothing like FSS.

We seem to be stuck with massive overheads. Doubtless there are reasons why.

[Bigbrbairn]

3 hours ago, Senor Bairn said:

So ehhhhh any new signings in before Alloa? X 

Do we play football? Over the last few pages i thought we were just a business

[Back Post Misses]

7 hours ago, Blame Me said:

At this point fan ownership isn't the aim of FSS.

It's understandable that the FSS - and the club - want rapid growth but whilst it's in its infancy I think it's going to be quite organic and slow.

Of course Fan ownership is the aim. If it isn’t my monthly subs are a waste of my money 

[Back Post Misses]

11 hours ago, Springfield said:

Said weeks ago, with the previous/current circumstances it would be a struggle to attract significant numbers. Covid/Redundancy/Inflation/Soaring Fuel/Energy/Food costs. Add on four seasons of absolute shite with players not fit to wear the jerseys. It was always going to be a struggle.

Should we achieve promotion this year I would expect numbers to get near four digits. As said a decent season or two in the championship would expect numbers to increase.

I think the opposite. If the club were about to go pop everyone would rally then. That is what happened before and history shows that is what happens at other clubs. The irony is this scheme is there to stop the crisis but not enough are backing it sadly. 

[Back Post Misses]

9 hours ago, Braes_Bairn said:

Personally I think the FSS model is all wrong, why would I sign up to pay £10 a month when I get nothing in return? I’d be much more likely to sign up to a share shave scheme where you actually get shares in your name.

What you get is collectively the club is owned by those who care the most about the club - it supporters. It give us collectively the right to elect people to run it on our behalf and protects the club from falling into the hands of a Mark Campbell (and his secret backers). It isn’t about “what’s in it for me” unless of course you don’t think being part of a collective owning and protecting what is important to you is not of any value. 

You have been able to buy shares as an individual for years and years. 

[Back Post Misses]

6 hours ago, PedroMoutinho said:

For your £250 quid season ticket money you get access to 18 league games. For your £120 FSS contribution, you don’t get anything tangible.

Surely it’s pretty self explanatory what the difference is and why one scheme is far more popular than the other.

Other than collectively owning your club, which I assume is important to you, have an input into who runs it and protects the club from a vulture like Mark Campbell. You really don’t get it. 

[Back Post Misses]

5 hours ago, Braes_Bairn said:

Exactly my point. I’m sure a share save scheme where supporters actually get shares in their own name would be popular. 

I bet you wouldn’t get 100. 

[Back Post Misses]

6 hours ago, Duncan Freemason said:

Our stretch target is probably around 1,000 members. There is only the well of paid up ST holders to drink from for 80% of the FSS membership. A family of say 2 parents and 2 young kids are not going to take out 4 FSS subscriptions.

It isn’t going to work then. FFS Morton have 1000. How can a St.Mirren and Motherwell make this work and we can’t ? Motherwell have about 3500 members I believe.