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The Falkirk FC Thread


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8 hours ago, Zbairn said:

Think the question should be “what return did we get from the academy?” . Simplistically how much per year did we pay out and what did we recoup in transfer fees and add ons?  That also doesn’t take into account game time in an FFC shirt.

That’s all very well if you’ve got the money to spend in the first place. We have a £400k black hole as it is and are looking at part time football next season.

In my view it would be reckless and irresponsible to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on an academy in our current predicament. The board are absolutely right not to entertain it and have us become a youth club with a sideline in professional football.

Edited by PedroMoutinho
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13 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Let’s just hope the club can somehow steer its way through these troubled times.

I can understand the 25STs and the immediate cash injection, but is it really that bad ? 

All they have to do is issue a statement outlining the facts.

They will need to do that anyway for the AGM.

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32 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Let’s just hope the club can somehow steer its way through these troubled times.

I can understand the 25STs and the immediate cash injection, but is it really that bad ? 

I don’t think it’s as bad as people make out. The BoD have spelled it out that we probably will need around £400k to cover a potential operating loss by the end of the season. New investment, loans and other incentives are the way to cover this shortfall. A half decent cup run and draw would help a lot as well.

This is not unusual for football clubs at our level. In the past we have been fortunate to cover this by Academy players being sold, the occasional transfer and sell-ons, a la Will Vaulks.

The issue is for next season if we are to operate under similar circumstances, because the club doesn’t get promotion. The club needs to identify ways to run as an ongoing business. This could mean going hybrid part-time. It could also mean potentially giving up on the fan ownership model and selling the existing unsold shares to someone.

Getting promoted would certainly help as the cash from the SPFL increases significantly. It would probably steady the ship financially but maybe not be enough to allow us to bring in the type of player needed for a push to the Premier league.

Edited by Zbairn
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11 hours ago, Ecosse83 said:

Wow what a way to twist what I said, at no point did I say they were better 😂🤷‍♂️

You said none of them were worse so at the bare minimum they are all on the same level which is utter nonsense. Comparing Steven mcginn to hetherington. Just nuts.

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10 minutes ago, Benny74 said:

Was the rumour about the AGM true or rubbish or a mixture of both? In order to sell the season tickets people will need some reassurance that the tickets will remain valid.

2 posts on the forum, as a Pars fan, both about Falkirks imminent demise 😂

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1 hour ago, Shodwall cat said:

You said none of them were worse so at the bare minimum they are all on the same level which is utter nonsense. Comparing Steven mcginn to hetherington. Just nuts.

Honestly just stop twisting what I’ve said and go away 😂

Absolutely pathetic! 

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1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

2 posts on the forum, as a Pars fan, both about Falkirks imminent demise 😂

......a bit like Dunfermline selling their soul to some German mob to make ends meet.  Sounds like a Brooks Mileson storyline to me :) 

As Peter Grant stated at the time "Its great that the German guys have come and seen Dunfermline as that potential club. That is what it is - potential - we need to go and make that a reality" 😅 ...... that reality was getting relegated last season !

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5 minutes ago, Ecosse83 said:

Honestly just stop twisting what I’ve said and go away 😂

Absolutely pathetic! 

I said please tell me I'm picking it up wrong in my original post so you could simply have explained it better . So what did you mean then when you said

'On the whole I don’t think any of the players that remained from last season are below what Mcglynn has brought in (Wilson and Ross obvious exceptions)'. 

🤷

Edited by Shodwall cat
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1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

All they have to do is issue a statement outlining the facts.

They will need to do that anyway for the AGM.

Reading this and other comments of a similar vein it occurred to me that the amount of official detail of the club's inner workings really is at  unprecedented levels.

@Dawson Park Boy I'm certain the board will let us know when they're ready and have all the facts. That said, what's issued to shareholders and the public domain will likely be two different things. Are you suggesting, or do you know, that that they have all the facts and are deliberately keeping us all in the dark? 

I want fan ownership, I like the different approach, which as far as I understand it was intended to make things clearer and bring us together as a support. But has it?  Or is it a lightning rod for the different factions to fire pot shots at each other. Which FWIW, to me, is more tiresome than fans of Airdrie, Morton and Dunfermline taking pot shots at us. 

 

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16 hours ago, roman_bairn said:


I am not sure how I can write that he’s the best we have had since Houstie but he deemed the most critical when there are others apparently questioning if we should be considering change?
I have noted the very pro board sentiments on here for weeks and weeks and have always approached things on here from a devils advocate perspective as I hate the imbalance that I think we are seeing on here at the moment and there are plenty of us on here that are fed up with the constant defence of anything that gets criticised by those of us not in the know.
You should note that again, you are doing the same of myself.
Irrespective, I think we are a better team and I DO feel we have better people in place but I’m genuinely concerned re our financial situation and the fact that we need to go cap in hand to the very people we were trying to get shot of. What worries me more is that we have no update on that and possible credible indication that the accounts may not yet be signed off and AGM postponed.
I’ll accept and apologise for the dig at you re friends on the board as that was probably unfair, but I also think you need to accept that from an outsiders perspective the board should receive the same balanced criticism of previous boards when there are issues in question.
I’ll leave it there and continue to look forward to your constructive and informative posts on occasion……

As I said to another poster it is the fans board not “this board” and not some distant shareholder or shareholders board. Combined the FSS and Patrons are the largest shareholders. Four of the directors are elected by the two organisations. They are working on OUR behalf not anyone else. The sooner the mistrust and the us and them mentality goes the better. 

That doesn’t mean we should not be critical if we deem necessary. IMO they are doing a good job. Have they got everything right? No they haven’t. Rennie was a mistake (but they took away the long term commitment to him upfront which was a good call). I think they should have a Chairman and they have made a couple of comms mistakes. However given their predecessors catalogue in errors those issues are pretty small in the big scheme of things.

IMO They will get the club through the short term financial issues and providing we stick together we have a chance to make the fan ownership plan work.

However it needs a larger number of fans to buy in. If we are fan owned then more than 10/15% of the fanbase need to carry the financial burden. Plenty may not like to hear that but that is the reality. If they don’t fanownership will go the way of Dundee and Dunfermline. If they do we have a chance to do a Motherwell or St.Mirren.

If we don’t then IMO there will be no option but to seek an investor and fans lose the control we have and if that investor is not the right one no one knows the clubs future. 

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1 hour ago, Brockvillenomore said:

Reading this and other comments of a similar vein it occurred to me that the amount of official detail of the club's inner workings really is at  unprecedented levels.

@Dawson Park Boy I'm certain the board will let us know when they're ready and have all the facts. That said, what's issued to shareholders and the public domain will likely be two different things. Are you suggesting, or do you know, that that they have all the facts and are deliberately keeping us all in the dark? 

I want fan ownership, I like the different approach, which as far as I understand it was intended to make things clearer and bring us together as a support. But has it?  Or is it a lightning rod for the different factions to fire pot shots at each other. Which FWIW, to me, is more tiresome than fans of Airdrie, Morton and Dunfermline taking pot shots at us. 

 

Firstly, I have no knowledge other than what has been put out at the meetings early in the season, the podcast and the statements put out.

Forecasting finances of football clubs strikes me as being fairly straightforward as the income comes from supporters, advertisers, sponsors, hospitality and occasionally player sales. Costs are mainly fixed with wages making up the bulk.

We started the season knowing there was a loss of at least £400k and it is probably higher as we haven’t moved any players on.

Attendances have probably been better than forecast so that would help a bit. Sponsorship income, etc. - probably better than forecast.

Anyway, a big gap to fund.

To fill this, we have FSS which is great but lower than what was hoped.

There is the Patrons investments which again is great but not enough.

From all that, we have the delay in the AGM which rings alarm bells.

Yes, I’m sure the Directors are working hard to get soft loans, increase the Patrons, sell ST’s for years ahead etc., etc.,

As yet we don’t know the result of their endeavours and, you’re right, we’ve no reason to be told.

What I don’t want is a last minute announcement that there is a problem and urgent help is needed to avert a crisis.

I would have thought that it would be better to announce now the current state of play and how much is required to see us through to the end of the season. If I knew the exact position then I for one would offer help at the level I can manage as I’m sure would many others. Obviously most folks can’t manage £100k plus sums but a lot could manage more modest amounts.

Anyway, that’s where I stand and I will certainly give the BOD credit for at last appointing a real football manager.

 

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52 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Firstly, I have no knowledge other than what has been put out at the meetings early in the season, the podcast and the statements put out.

Forecasting finances of football clubs strikes me as being fairly straightforward as the income comes from supporters, advertisers, sponsors, hospitality and occasionally player sales. Costs are mainly fixed with wages making up the bulk.

We started the season knowing there was a loss of at least £400k and it is probably higher as we haven’t moved any players on.

Attendances have probably been better than forecast so that would help a bit. Sponsorship income, etc. - probably better than forecast.

Anyway, a big gap to fund.

To fill this, we have FSS which is great but lower than what was hoped.

There is the Patrons investments which again is great but not enough.

From all that, we have the delay in the AGM which rings alarm bells.

Yes, I’m sure the Directors are working hard to get soft loans, increase the Patrons, sell ST’s for years ahead etc., etc.,

As yet we don’t know the result of their endeavours and, you’re right, we’ve no reason to be told.

What I don’t want is a last minute announcement that there is a problem and urgent help is needed to avert a crisis.

I would have thought that it would be better to announce now the current state of play and how much is required to see us through to the end of the season. If I knew the exact position then I for one would offer help at the level I can manage as I’m sure would many others. Obviously most folks can’t manage £100k plus sums but a lot could manage more modest amounts.

Anyway, that’s where I stand and I will certainly give the BOD credit for at last appointing a real football manager.

 

Can't argue with any of that @Dawson Park Boy. I'm going to be positive and optimistic here (and hopefully not live to regret it) but I'm going to take confidence from the 'silence' (or perception of silence) as confirmation everything is in hand and they're dotting the I's and crossing the t's. Time will tell. 

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3 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

If we are fan owned then more than 10/15% of the fanbase need to carry the financial burden. Plenty may not like to hear that but that is the reality.

I don't see it as anything other than a choice really, we either want a majority fan owned club or we don't.

By "we" I mean all the supporters and FFC minded folk, wherever you are.

FSS was launched a year ago in the belief there was an appetite for fan ownership. 12 months on we have 600+ members and we are at a crossroads. To push on we need to grow and grow quickly. The current financial climate sets our objectives back, but we can't complain about the cards we've been dealt.  We are where we are, as smart arses like to say 🤣

We can't let it degenerate into blame, or recrimination, or being a part of one group, or one faction, or settling old scores - that pish will only holds us back.

 

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3 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

As I said to another poster it is the fans board not “this board” and not some distant shareholder or shareholders board. Combined the FSS and Patrons are the largest shareholders. Four of the directors are elected by the two organisations. They are working on OUR behalf not anyone else. The sooner the mistrust and the us and them mentality goes the better. 

That doesn’t mean we should not be critical if we deem necessary. IMO they are doing a good job. Have they got everything right? No they haven’t. Rennie was a mistake (but they took away the long term commitment to him upfront which was a good call). I think they should have a Chairman and they have made a couple of comms mistakes. However given their predecessors catalogue in errors those issues are pretty small in the big scheme of things.

IMO They will get the club through the short term financial issues and providing we stick together we have a chance to make the fan ownership plan work.

However it needs a larger number of fans to buy in. If we are fan owned then more than 10/15% of the fanbase need to carry the financial burden. Plenty may not like to hear that but that is the reality. If they don’t fanownership will go the way of Dundee and Dunfermline. If they do we have a chance to do a Motherwell or St.Mirren.

If we don’t then IMO there will be no option but to seek an investor and fans lose the control we have and if that investor is not the right one no one knows the clubs future. 

It is not a fans board yet (but appreciate strides have been taken forward in this area).  Remember that 2/5 of the directors were appointed by a group of 20 or so wealthier supporters.  I'm sure you'd agree that those 20 are hardly a representative sample of the entire fan base.

You've missed a few errors from your list too - a pursuit of David Goodwillie and adding nearly £200k onto the playing budget against the backdrop of a £400k operating loss.

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14 minutes ago, RC_Bairn said:

It is not a fans board yet (but appreciate strides have been taken forward in this area).  Remember that 2/5 of the directors were appointed by a group of 20 or so wealthier supporters.  I'm sure you'd agree that those 20 are hardly a representative sample of the entire fan base.

You've missed a few errors from your list too - a pursuit of David Goodwillie and adding nearly £200k onto the playing budget against the backdrop of a £400k operating loss.

2 of 20 wealthier supporters = fans

2 of 600 supporters = fans

Bottom line…end of! 
 

edited to add. The DG comment is an assumption. Regardless of people saying they are itk, no one has come out categorically and stated this has been the case. 
 

If the extra cash hadn’t been spent we would probably be looking at staving off relegation or at best mid table mediocrity. Then the crap re financials would really have hit the fan.

Edited by Zbairn
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4 hours ago, Shodwall cat said:

I said please tell me I'm picking it up wrong in my original post so you could simply have explained it better . So what did you mean then when you said

'On the whole I don’t think any of the players that remained from last season are below what Mcglynn has brought in (Wilson and Ross obvious exceptions)'. 

🤷

I don’t think what Mcglynn has signed overall (as a whole) is exactly head and shoulders above the players we already have in the squad from last season. Yes you can pick out individuals like Mcginn over Hetherington but I’m looking at the big picture. I’m just a bit bored of hearing that because we have players from last season that’s why we are struggling. 
 

He made 4 subs on Saturday, 3 of them that came on are his signings so if his signings are so much better they should all start surely? 
 

Now that’s not me having a go at Mcglynn I actually praise him for getting more out of what we have but it’s the argument that last seasons players are why we aren’t going great that gets to me! 
 

Hopefully my pint is clearer now. 

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15 minutes ago, RC_Bairn said:

It is not a fans board yet (but appreciate strides have been taken forward in this area).  Remember that 2/5 of the directors were appointed by a group of 20 or so wealthier supporters.  I'm sure you'd agree that those 20 are hardly a representative sample of the entire fan base.

You've missed a few errors from your list too - a pursuit of David Goodwillie and adding nearly £200k onto the playing budget against the backdrop of a £400k operating loss.

No idea if they went for Goodwillie or not. That is a manager call if they did anyway - so on Rennie. 
If they didn’t add anything to the budget you were left with 13 players - So that was never a mistake. 
Patrons and FSS are THE largest shareholders combined. EVERY single fan has had more than enough time to join either group so it is the fans board. Sadly however only 10-15% have decided to join so far. That is not the clubs fault it is fans decision. They either want to own the club as I said or allow it to be sold to someone who could do anything with it 

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13 minutes ago, Ecosse83 said:

I don’t think what Mcglynn has signed overall (as a whole) is exactly head and shoulders above the players we already have in the squad from last season. Yes you can pick out individuals like Mcginn over Hetherington but I’m looking at the big picture. I’m just a bit bored of hearing that because we have players from last season that’s why we are struggling. 
 

He made 4 subs on Saturday, 3 of them that came on are his signings so if his signings are so much better they should all start surely? 
 

Now that’s not me having a go at Mcglynn I actually praise him for getting more out of what we have but it’s the argument that last seasons players are why we aren’t going great that gets to me! 
 

Hopefully my pint is clearer now. 

🤔 how many cloudy pints have you had?

 

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