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1 hour ago, Barga Bairn said:

I agree with a lot of what you say but I think there are some important things to consider. Here's my take on it

Hughes found himself facing a transition with the loss of Latapy and the academy being 2 years short of producing enough players. So he signed quality but experienced players to see him through. It didnae work particular well, but he didn't take us down and we should have won the cup.

Presley was also full of bluster, but he made some very good signings on a low budget.  He brought in El Alagoui, McGovern, Higginbotham, Taylor, and Marc Millar for example.

He also signed great youngsters like Murray Wallace, Will Vaulks and Luke Leahey, and played them.

He had possibly the youngest ever team in Scotland when he brought in Sibbald, Kingsley, Murdoch, Alston, Jay Fulton, Connor McGrandles.

Credit where credits due, these were all great players for us. The young team were a team worth supporting.

Holt was a disaster, both times.

Things were far from perfect, but I think Houston was unlucky, as Rangers and Hearts were dumped on us. That held back our promotion efforts.

I contend that it was from then it all went seriously, calamitously wrong. We made a bad mistake when we sacked Houston. His team looked tired and shorn of its best players after 2 decent efforts. He would possibly have turned it round and rebuilt. The guy had shown he was a decent manager in a business where few can be called that.

There were plenty of fans who wanted him out. There were also a hell of a lot of fans supporting the Hartley signings, the so called Brentford model. Plenty of idiots wanted rid of the academy. The utterly stupid board said the club couldn't support the academy financially,  sidestepping the money we had made and the obvious fact that our best players on the park for a number of years were actually academy graduates.

The unfathomable mess started with Hartley and the sub moronic board, pushed even further towards oblivion by the Deans board.

I'm shattered by the last 4 seasons. I've no idea where we go from here as even starting all over again looks impossible.

Excellent summary and exactly how I feel, and have been banging on about for years.

To go from that wonderful team of young players that made you so proud to a conveyor belt of absolute jobbers is heartbreaking, and there will be no return on any player for the foreseeable future.    

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The one problem I have, like I said is where is the accountability and how do you know if the people you voted in are the ones making the bad choices? 
 
It was said that they have collective responsibility which is all well and good but if mistakes are being made then I don’t think we can just continually replace the full board. Say we had signed Goodwillie then if there was someone in there who didn’t want them then it wouldn’t be fair for them to carry the can for it.
That's the problem with democracy . You sometimes have to accept your view is in the minority In those situations people either accept it or if they feel that strongly vote with their feet
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11 hours ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Hughes decided for some crazy reason to completely move from the policy that had worked so well of signing young players from down south to signing old farts on ridiculous wages plus Bob. We'd only missed out on top 6 by about ten mins the season before.  A tweak was all that was needed.  He's replaced by Eddie may when the club must've had its best ever options of a new manager in my lifetime. He's finally released from his agony and who do we replace him with another complete rookie who promises us that we'd stay up but in fact we go down without as much as a whimper despite Killie hardly winning a game for about two months. After pressleys miserable failure what do we do?We reward him with a new bloody contract. We then have a few years of never looking like going up as pressleys recruitment us in the main utter dross apart from the odd complete diamond.  We then get a break as someone incredibly wants to pay money to take him off our hands. That bit of luck is then thrown out the door by replacing him again with another guy with zero experience who immediately loses a 3 0 halftime lead In a cup semi final . He's given a bigger budget but chooses not to bother spending it all and a piss poor Dundee side win the league whilst we lose out to Hamilton in the playoffs. Holt runs back to Norwich and finally we appoint an experienced head in Houston fresh from winning the Scottish cup with United.  We have a disappointing first league season but we somehow manage to get to the cup final which we throw away. Next we have a fantastic season.with Houston's tactical nuance getting us second in an extremely tough league . The play off final proves a step too far though and we're muscled out of it completely. Houston says we need to sign some more physical players. Next season Houston doesn't sign any more physical players. We have a decent league campaign but have a disappointing exit to a mediocre United side in the playoffs. Poor recruitment is already beginning to tell on the ability of the squad. Next season Houston signs Alex Harris and Rory Loy who both turn out pish. He also announces he's retiring in the summer and the team down tools after a good pre season. With the club heading for relegation we sack Houston and appointment Hartley who signs some decent players in January and steers us away from the drop zone. The next season there is a great deal of optimism at the club despite the decision to suddenly dump the academy in order to sign players from clubs down south. Hartley stupidly goes along with this and takes the blame for it being a pile of shite and is sacked .  He's then replaced by McKinnon who ends up costing us a fortune despite having no real successful track record as a manager. We are again relegated without much fight.  The board couldn't make the same mistake again surely oh yes they could and he's kept on before being sacked when 3 points off the top of the league.  We then return to our old ways of giving it to people with no experience and a hairdresser and fitness fanatic takeover.  They do ok with McKinnon's players but a few poor results and more dreadful Jan recruitment mean we lose out to Raith by a point when the league is shutdown.  Next season they start off well before the board appoints Holt again this time as dof. Team loses one game and collapses. Recruitment in January is 3 kids . M and M sacked holt takes over and we get somehow even worse and end up out the playoffs completely.  A new manager is appointed.  Aberdeens kids coach takes over and we have a super new recruitment system which basically is as shit as the old one. After a decent first few games we lose one and again collapse.  Sheerin is sacked and replaced by Rennie who has absolutely no experience of the Scottish game. He signs 6 players but we are no better than we were before really. Queen's parks terrible form keeps us in sniffing distance of a spot in playoffs we all know we have zero chance of winning.  Next year who knows.

I'd say that about sums it up.

George Craig, Craig Campbell and Gary Deans - the architects of our downfall.

No one will ever convince me otherwise, we are where we are because of that unholy trinity.

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6 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

The BOD or the FSS committee can’t and shouldnt be asking the fans or the FSS membership to vote in decisions like that surely! We elect officials to run the club on our behalf those officials then stand or fall by the decisions they take, do people not know how democracy works? 

How does the elected FSS Director know the views of the FSS membership unless you have a vote?  Whether a manager is given a new contract seems like quite a big deal, even if it was just to convey the views of the membership at board level. 

In reality you're only having a say in who is elected, nothing else.

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2 minutes ago, Bigbri Bairn said:
13 minutes ago, Caractacus Potts said:
The one problem I have, like I said is where is the accountability and how do you know if the people you voted in are the ones making the bad choices? 
 
It was said that they have collective responsibility which is all well and good but if mistakes are being made then I don’t think we can just continually replace the full board. Say we had signed Goodwillie then if there was someone in there who didn’t want them then it wouldn’t be fair for them to carry the can for it.

That's the problem with democracy . You sometimes have to accept your view is in the minority In those situations people either accept it or if they feel that strongly vote with their feet

I understand that but my point is how do you know how your representative has been voting?

Again using the Goodwilie issue as a case in point but if one of the FSS directors thought it was ok to sign him then I wouldn’t vote for them again. As it is with that and other issues we have no idea whose making decisions that you agree with or not. 

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I had no problem with the appointment of Rennie at the time and also fully back the short term deal. What I don’t get at the moment is the desperation to convince people he’s doing well. He’s not.
 

He might in time but at the moment he’s not. If the BOD decide he has the CV/potential/experience/contacts to be successful then fair enough but don’t pretend what we’ve seen so far is a success. The next 3 or 4 fixtures will be telling. 

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14 minutes ago, Caractacus Potts said:

I understand that but my point is how do you know how your representative has been voting?

Again using the Goodwilie issue as a case in point but if one of the FSS directors thought it was ok to sign him then I wouldn’t vote for them again. As it is with that and other issues we have no idea whose making decisions that you agree with or not. 

If you are an FSS member, go to one of the 3 upcoming live events, and ask the question? If there answer is yes, let them know that that decision alone shows they are not fit for purpose and you will not be voting for them again. 

I don’t think a tenner a month should get you any more say than that tbh. 

Edited by bairn88
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If you are an FSS member, go to one of the 3 upcoming live events, and ask the question? If there answer is yes, let them know that that decision alone shows they are not fit for purpose and you will not be voting for them again. 
I don’t think a tenner a month should get you any more say than that tbh. 
Exactly. The £10+ is not a gift it is your entry fee into the decision making process. To get a result from your money get personally involved. Okay your views may not be in the majority but at least they are being heard. EASY

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24 minutes ago, bairn88 said:

If you are an FSS member, go to one of the 3 upcoming live events, and ask the question? If there answer is yes, let them know that that decision alone shows they are not fit for purpose and you will not be voting for them again. 

I don’t think a tenner a month should get you any more say than that tbh. 

Didn’t say anything about the tenner a month, just talking about how we can judge the job the representatives are doing. 

I’ll take your point on board but as has been said previously I imagine the answer will be that these decisions are protected by boardroom confidentiality.

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3 hours ago, Barga Bairn said:

I agree with a lot of what you say but I think there are some important things to consider. Here's my take on it

Hughes found himself facing a transition with the loss of Latapy and the academy being 2 years short of producing enough players. So he signed quality but experienced players to see him through. It didnae work particular well, but he didn't take us down and we should have won the cup.

Presley was also full of bluster, but he made some very good signings on a low budget.  He brought in El Alagoui, McGovern, Higginbotham, Taylor, and Marc Millar for example.

He also signed great youngsters like Murray Wallace, Will Vaulks and Luke Leahey, and played them.

He had possibly the youngest ever team in Scotland when he brought in Sibbald, Kingsley, Murdoch, Alston, Jay Fulton, Connor McGrandles.

Credit where credits due, these were all great players for us. The young team were a team worth supporting.

Holt was a disaster, both times.

Things were far from perfect, but I think Houston was unlucky, as Rangers and Hearts were dumped on us. That held back our promotion efforts.

I contend that it was from then it all went seriously, calamitously wrong. We made a bad mistake when we sacked Houston. His team looked tired and shorn of its best players after 2 decent efforts. He would possibly have turned it round and rebuilt. The guy had shown he was a decent manager in a business where few can be called that.

There were plenty of fans who wanted him out. There were also a hell of a lot of fans supporting the Hartley signings, the so called Brentford model. Plenty of idiots wanted rid of the academy. The utterly stupid board said the club couldn't support the academy financially,  sidestepping the money we had made and the obvious fact that our best players on the park for a number of years were actually academy graduates.

The unfathomable mess started with Hartley and the sub moronic board, pushed even further towards oblivion by the Deans board.

I'm shattered by the last 4 seasons. I've no idea where we go from here as even starting all over again looks impossible.

Hughes success was signing players from arsenal , Ipswich etc . Young players that weren't quite good enough for them but we're more than good enough for the Scottish top flight.  He merged them with some more experienced Scottish talent. However, he suddenly veered completely away from that and it was a financial disaster. 

For every decent player Pressley signed he signed 2 or 3 absolute duffers which meant turning to playing the youngsters from the academy. To have all those great youngsters come through though and never get near a promotion place was pitiful. If he'd done better in his experienced signings we would've had far more chance in going up. Too many Haworth's though and not enough farids. Leahy started 5 games under Pressley and vaulks 4 so he didn't really play them. Houston got the best out of leahy and Holt played vaulks far more. 

Houston was packing in at the end of the season anyway but should never have announced it as it gave the players an excuse to down tools. He certainly wasn't going to hang about for a rebuild that's for sure. He was tactically astute but did far better with Pressley and Holts players than he did with the players he brought in. His recruitment was God awful with the likes of Taylor Morgan and Rory boulding stinking the place out. A constant decline in the calibre of players being brought in lead up to the disastrous final season of his. 

Edited by Shadwell Dog
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1 hour ago, knee jerk reaction said:

I've said I'd be open to Rennie staying and having a summer transfer window to really do something and people are right to both critisise and defend him as he's not had long but there hasn't been the improvement hoped for.  Let's be honest though even under Sheerin we were never going down!

I am not so sure. The QP game wasn’t a blip, it wasn’t just one of those unexplainable results that come along every now and then. It was a team that had well and truly chucked it.

Aye, they put in a half hearted performance once Sheerin had gone, but it was for Danny Grainger who was walking around with a face like a smacked arse declaring his loyalty to Sheerin. By that stage, any sense of unity of purpose was broken beyond repair.

Remember too that three of our team/squad were there for the previous humiliation at Firhill. Two games at Firhill in which we scored a big fat zero goals and conceded eleven. Morrison was on the pitch for both (Miller and Mutch for the first), with Miller on the bench for the second thrashing.

We will never know where Sheerin was taking us if he had been allowed to see out the season. At no point did it ever feel like an upwards trajectory. MR might be trying to nurse a few battered egos through to the end of the season.

As I said before, once we cannot be relegated or promoted, then I expect the gloves to come off wrt our playing squad. I want to see clear direction then before I will be convinced one way or the other. Do we plod on, or is there a real sense of sleeves being rolled to deal with the here and now? If it’s the latter, I will stick around for a while yet (but as I get older, I have to accept that Gods have a bigger say in how long that might be).

I now know that what keeps me away from FFC isn’t bad football…….it’s bad people, and this past year I have learned to separate the two.

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14 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

Having pressed for meaningful change for 12 years I am happy to be patient for the new Board to rebuild this wreck of a football club. 

 

13 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

. Most of the players Rennie has brought in are an upgrade IMO. 

 

13 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

Would he? He wouldn’t have had 230k from Patrons so doubtful. 

 

11 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

 

The club is now in good hands. 

. I will support this Board to the end as they are good people. If they fail it will not be because they have not tried to do the right thing for the club or run it to suit their own personal agendas like it has been in the past

 

10 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:


he has improved us IMO. We would be staring relegation in the face if we had not got investment and players in. 

I have told you before if being supportive and loyal to people running the club I rate and like then so be it. If that is bias so fucking be it. 
 

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Edited by Bairn in Exile
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15 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

Would he? He wouldn’t have had 230k from Patrons so doubtful. 

 

14 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

not investing won’t help. Chicken and egg really. We either trust the new regime or we don’t. Those who don’t won’t invest but it won’t improve things much. If Rennie is appointed and it is their red line then so be it.

So if individual fans don’t want to invest in a new boardroom structure because they don't like the manager in place then they're not helping the club, they're "lost causes" and various other thinly veiled digs which amount to them not being real Falkirk fans like you. However you seem to be implying that your mates wouldn't have invested £230K if Paul Sheerin was still manager, and that money was dependent on his removal?

For what it's worth I agree that investing in a fan membership scheme trying to establish a stake in a club and presumably increase it over time shouldn't be dependent on the short term consideration of who the manager is. We had the same issue at Morton where our fan organisation owns the club outright, but we had people threatening to cancel memberships or actually doing it over Gus MacPherson not being sacked quickly enough, among other issues. While appointing and standing by a shite manager is absolutely an issue an elected board should be held democratically accountable to the fanbase for if they consistently make such poor decisions, declaring that the whole model is doomed to fail every time something goes wrong on the park misses the whole point of the exercise and is simply a guarantee you'll have no long term stability as your fan organisation can't sustainably plan for the future if they fear losing dozens of members with any poor run of form.

None of that makes your blind insistence that as this board appointed Martin Rennie he must be the next Alex Ferguson any less ridiculous. What's even worse are your attacks on anyone who acknowledges the fact - not opinion, the literal fact of his league record - he has an almost identical record than Paul Sheerin, as if the only way anyone could believe this is if they are sleeper agents planted by Gary Holt trying to undermine the new board and bring Gary Deans back.

There is certainly someone fawning over a Falkirk board and refusing to accept any criticism of them here, and it's not people criticising Martin Rennie's managerial record.

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Without covering old ground on Rennie (handed a team of charlatans/notoriously difficult transfer window etc)my main concerns/worries;

1.didn’t address our main weaknesses which has haunted us this season, “decent midfielders”

2.persisted with a back five of mix and match and clearly didn’t work, persisted with certain players clearly uncomfortable/not capable, and bizarre substitutions.

If we’d addressed these issues we’d probably be in the mix. 

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44 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Without covering old ground on Rennie (handed a team of charlatans/notoriously difficult transfer window etc)my main concerns/worries;

1.didn’t address our main weaknesses which has haunted us this season, “decent midfielders”

2.persisted with a back five of mix and match and clearly didn’t work, persisted with certain players clearly uncomfortable/not capable, and bizarre substitutions.

If we’d addressed these issues we’d probably be in the mix. 

He hasn’t played a back 5 for weeks now and we are in the mix. 4th place was the only chance we had after Sheerin 

Edited by Back Post Misses
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1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said:

 

So if individual fans don’t want to invest in a new boardroom structure because they don't like the manager in place then they're not helping the club, they're "lost causes" and various other thinly veiled digs which amount to them not being real Falkirk fans like you. However you seem to be implying that your mates wouldn't have invested £230K if Paul Sheerin was still manager, and that money was dependent on his removal?

For what it's worth I agree that investing in a fan membership scheme trying to establish a stake in a club and presumably increase it over time shouldn't be dependent on the short term consideration of who the manager is. We had the same issue at Morton where our fan organisation owns the club outright, but we had people threatening to cancel memberships or actually doing it over Gus MacPherson not being sacked quickly enough, among other issues. While appointing and standing by a shite manager is absolutely an issue an elected board should be held democratically accountable to the fanbase for if they consistently make such poor decisions, declaring that the whole model is doomed to fail every time something goes wrong on the park misses the whole point of the exercise and is simply a guarantee you'll have no long term stability as your fan organisation can't sustainably plan for the future if they fear losing dozens of members with any poor run of form.

None of that makes your blind insistence that as this board appointed Martin Rennie he must be the next Alex Ferguson any less ridiculous. What's even worse are your attacks on anyone who acknowledges the fact - not opinion, the literal fact of his league record - he has an almost identical record than Paul Sheerin, as if the only way anyone could believe this is if they are sleeper agents planted by Gary Holt trying to undermine the new board and bring Gary Deans back.

There is certainly someone fawning over a Falkirk board and refusing to accept any criticism of them here, and it's not people criticising Martin Rennie's managerial record.

People have every right to be critical if they want. My point however is two fold

1. As a club we have been mismanaged for years. The new guys are sorting out all sorts of problems that is not going to take five minutes to fix and some seem to think they should have things turned round already. Progress is going to be slow IMO.

2. Rennie has been left the worst squad since the 70’s. I thought it would have been better I have consistently said that it was never going to be great overnight. IMO it is still too early to judge Rennie properly. 

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9 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

He hasn’t played a back 5 for weeks now and we are in the mix. 4th place was the only chance we had after Sheerin 

Hate to bring some objectivity in to the discussion again but we were 4 points away from 3rd and 4th when Sheerin was sacked and only 6 points off 2nd and 9 from 1st. 

Due to Graingers subsequent defeat we were then 4 points from 4th, 7 from 3rd, 9 from 2nd and 12 from 1st when Rennie took over. If Rennie was adamant a 6 point gap wasn’t insurmountable with 7 games to go then I’d like to think he’d have fancied his chances of climbing a 9 point gap with 19 games left to reach 2nd. 

For absolute clarity on the ‘progress’ made since Rennie has been in charge the swing in points from 1st to 4th after 17 matches when Rennie took over to now, are as follows:

1st: was 12 now 25 so 13 points worse off

2nd: was 9 now 20 so 11 points worse

3rd: was 7 now 11 so 4 points worse off

4th: was 4 now 3 so 1 point closer

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