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7 hours ago, latapythelegend said:

Without sounding stereotypical, there aren't many Asian supporters in Scottish football. I think most tend to support English teams.

There aren't enough facepalm emojis in the world for this 

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1 hour ago, MrDust said:

You do know he was ill ?

He is better away from our car crash behind the scenes, I'd say the same if he went to Brechin.

I don't see a problem with him being on the board, generally normal practice to offer him something to keep an employee to show you want to keep him. Do you have any examples of things he would promote and not whilst being on the board as opposed to not being on the board ?

Alex indeed was a master of his trade in his time and could sell sand to Arabs but I'd be surprised if he had much input in trucks, hot tubs, cranes etc 

I was under the impression Keiran was ill before Alex left, if the case where does this scrutiny start ?

Covid has hit all areas of sponsors and business income, yep Alex would squeeze blood out of a stone where he could but the blood would be drips and not flowing in a pre covid world.

As mentioned above, he is better away from it, he is obviously fit enough now and will fly high or fail in the same measure used when he was at Falkirk.

 

 

 

Ok, have a bash with 50-50 getting the full on treatment. Why? Because he got commission from it. Retail….didn’t give a monkey’s about it. Why? No commission. The CI guys fundraising ideas……actively discouraged. Why? Might negatively impact on 50-50 sales…..and less commission for him. That’s for starters.

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1 minute ago, Duncan Freemason said:

Ok, have a bash with 50-50 getting the full on treatment. Why? Because he got commission from it. Retail….didn’t give a monkey’s about it. Why? No commission. The CI guys fundraising ideas……actively discouraged. Why? Might negatively impact on 50-50 sales…..and less commission for him. That’s for starters.

50-50 is about all that could be done during the lockdown and the retail has been poor since long before his time

Why would the CI fundraising impact 50/50 ?

I'd guess a large portion of the 50/50 were watching the weekly repeats of old games

What was his commission rate ?

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, MrDust said:

 

Alex indeed was a master of his trade in his time and could sell sand to Arabs but I'd be surprised if he had much input in trucks, hot tubs, cranes etc 

As mentioned above, he is better away from it, he is obviously fit enough now and will fly high or fail in the same measure used when he was at Falkirk.

 

 

 

No he won’t. He will not have the headroom to self determine commission (the Hibs gig he turned down wasn’t commission based). AT didn’t do hot tubs….you are correct. AT brought in major commercial revenue by building and maintaining relationships. Once AT left and the contacts went with him, KK couldn’t recover them. Simple as that.

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Just now, MrDust said:

50-50 is about all that could be done during the lockdown and the retail has been poor since long before his time

Why would the CI fundraising impact 50/50 ?

I'd guess a large portion of the 50/50 were watching the weekly repeats of old games

What was his commission rate ?

 

 

 

 

Think beyond his commission rate. Think of the service provider he used for it.

Why would CI fundraising affect KKs take home pay? Because he reckoned every pound spent on CI was a £ lost to 50-50, and a £ lost to 50-50 was commission lost to him.

To keep a commercial manager, it is not normal practice to stick them in the boardroom. Quite the opposite. It clearly drives the wrong behaviours where go one way is more beneficial to the club, but go another way, and more commission for him (where “him” is anyone in such a position). KK was worried from the day and minute the Rawlins had their feet under the table. Ŵe we’re back in the land of George Craig where he had effectively been left to the day to day running of the club, and applying his own spin to matters in Board meetings. Hardly surprising he was stressed.

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4 hours ago, 18BAIRN76 said:

Have we made any signings so far that Sheerin couldn't have identified himself had Holt not been there?

I've heard his nephew, brother-in-law's postman and auntie's parrot are next in line.

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3 minutes ago, Duncan Freemason said:

Think beyond his commission rate. Think of the service provider he used for it.

Why would CI fundraising affect KKs take home pay? Because he reckoned every pound spent on CI was a £ lost to 50-50, and a £ lost to 50-50 was commission lost to him.

To keep a commercial manager, it is not normal practice to stick them in the boardroom. Quite the opposite. It clearly drives the wrong behaviours where go one way is more beneficial to the club, but go another way, and more commission for him (where “him” is anyone in such a position). KK was worried from the day and minute the Rawlins had their feet under the table. Ŵe we’re back in the land of George Craig where he had effectively been left to the day to day running of the club, and applying his own spin to matters in Board meetings. Hardly surprising he was stressed.

I couldn't tell you the service provider but the end of the day the club is ran at a social club level, so it's no surprise.

On that basis that's not Keirans fault and I'm still struggling to see what the CI fundraising had much effect on 50/50.

It is indeed not normal practice to stick a commercial director on the board but see above, social club part, the normal business part is to make someone feel wanted, throw cars, money, bonuses etc the way we have been run, does it surprise you ?

The end of the day he is better out of it at Falkirk and he will sink or swim at Queen's without the same circus, as far I feel he did a great job and if he made money on commission it was on the terms he was employed under.

You don't have those figures re his commission ?

 

 

 

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No commission figures. Hibs in the top flight couldn’t match FFC in L1. That alone should tell you something.

You feel he did a great job, and I am sure that was the case for much of his time there. As for the monies from 50-50 to a service provider….off the scale negligence.

He got involved or enrolled into too many things. Things were going swimmingly provided no-one else took an interest. Nothing illegal. Simply the old failing of zero oversight.

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As far as I am aware, KK appointed the service provider.

Anyhoo, it’s all pound notes under the bridge now. He got his settlement and an NDA, and has found his new home. Safe to say anyone in the same role would now be making significantly less.

I would assume Sammy is the new AT, and in that respect, I doubt that there is anyone out there capable of giving it a better go than him.

Edited by Duncan Freemason
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1 hour ago, Duncan Freemason said:

No he won’t. He will not have the headroom to self determine commission (the Hibs gig he turned down wasn’t commission based). AT didn’t do hot tubs….you are correct. AT brought in major commercial revenue by building and maintaining relationships. Once AT left and the contacts went with him, KK couldn’t recover them. Simple as that.

Very badly run operation if KK and AT didn’t get to know each other’s contacts to prevent loss of continuity in the event of one leaving the organisation.

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1 hour ago, Duncan Freemason said:

As far as I am aware, KK appointed the service provider.

Anyhoo, it’s all pound notes under the bridge now. He got his settlement and an NDA, and has found his new home. Safe to say anyone in the same role would now be making significantly less.

I would assume Sammy is the new AT, and in that respect, I doubt that there is anyone out there capable of giving it a better go than him.

All speculation, but like M&M the social club deliver settlements with a NDA and who is next ?

You hit the nail on the head with nothing illegal comment, he is guilty of making the club money and himself if the commission you speculate is correct and also all under the terms of his employment contract. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Duncan Freemason said:

Ok, have a bash with 50-50 getting the full on treatment. Why? Because he got commission from it. Retail….didn’t give a monkey’s about it. 

I’d imagine that KK wasn’t involved in the retail operation as it was not his job to do so and I’d guess he knows very little about that area. 

There have been a number of individuals brought in to manage the retail side while he’s been in post- the owner of Sisters was closely involved for a time if I remember directly.

Clearly retail hasn’t been up to scratch for a long time now- and hopefully the new partnership with Greaves will sort it out.

But not everything is some grand conspiracy- I don’t believe KK somehow sabotaged the retail operation due to not earning commission from it and I don’t believe the club made up a fake friendly against Arbroath. 

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6 hours ago, PedroMoutinho said:

I’d imagine that KK wasn’t involved in the retail operation as it was not his job to do so and I’d guess he knows very little about that area. 

There have been a number of individuals brought in to manage the retail side while he’s been in post- the owner of Sisters was closely involved for a time if I remember directly.

Clearly retail hasn’t been up to scratch for a long time now- and hopefully the new partnership with Greaves will sort it out.

But not everything is some grand conspiracy- I don’t believe KK somehow sabotaged the retail operation due to not earning commission from it and I don’t believe the club made up a fake friendly against Arbroath. 

Sorry it you are going to post get your facts right first. KK was in charge of the retail operation. I dealt with him directly on 3 or 4 retail projects the most recent where we sold circa 1000 facemasks earning the club and its main charity partner a decent some of money. 
 

In my dealings with him I found it a bit of a mixed bag. Some good some bad. On the whole however I believe he tried, what he thought, to do the best for the club. If he earned out of that, good for him. If it was excessive, I have no idea if it was, then the people to blame are his bosses who manage him. 
 

On the 50-50 front the club used PayPal which by its very nature is the most expensive provider which would have cost the club more than other mainline ways to run this. It did however raise a significant amount of cash for the club but was eventually over played. 

Edited by Back Post Misses
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16 hours ago, Duncan Freemason said:

I know I banged on about it at the time, but elevating him to the Boardroom “in case we lose him” was buffoonery of the highest order. So, a board member on salary plus commission.,…guess which things he would push and promote, and which things he would ignore?
After AT left, his goose was cooked as he earned commission on stuff that was seen as not being down to him. He couldn’t replace that revenue because he didn’t have AT’s contacts, so he was exposed to a bit of scrutiny.

I am sure he did some great work, but I am sure also that he got himself into a position that no-one questioned how he operated. The minute that scrutiny came his way, there could only be one ending.

TBF on KK I would have thought a good number of the sponsors he would have brought on not AT. The likes of Ineos, Imperial Cars, the new shirt sponsor and Horizon would be him I would guess?  I don’t know that for certain but a good few of the big sponsors would surely have been KK? 

The fella has moved on, he will have to prove himself to new masters now. There is a lot more fundamentally wrong with FFC than KK was despite not agreeing with everything he did.  

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Agree with BPM, Alex over the last number of years did the golf days, dinners etc which all made money and can’t be faulted or mocked but the number of big companies or deals KK will have brought in is decent. I don’t think that side of his role could be or should be questioned in terms of getting companies in and spending.  

A quick search on the web shows MAN, Ineos, Arco, Horizon, Clarke epos, Council/take the right route, Imperial cars, Benny ts, the Hot tub place. There’s prob more but it doesn’t need that much detail. 
 

Can’t comment on PayPal as only use it as a buyer of goods but even with charges, didn’t the club say it brought in over £100k? Not bad if that’s close to £50k in the clubs bank give or take a couple of grand. 

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20 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

TBF on KK I would have thought a good number of the sponsors he would have brought on not AT. The likes of Ineos, Imperial Cars, the new shirt sponsor and Horizon would be him I would guess?  I don’t know that for certain but a good few of the big sponsors would surely have been KK? 

For a number of years until covid I was helping to promote sponsorships for what felt like 3 or 4 days a week. From all the hundreds of conversations I heard between clients and club staff, it was crystal clear that KK was very much the main man. 

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