AL-FFC Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, The Moonster said: That's not what Shadwell is arguing. He doesn't think football clubs should get preferential treatment. It's a fair question. I find it bizarre that people who have businesses are saying "I'm getting nothing so others shouldn't get anything" rather than asking "why is my business not getting anything?". Money should be available for all who need it. We've wasted £22 Billion on test and trace and it doesn't even work, I'm fine with football clubs being given a bit to survive. In fairness i agree with both points made it shouldnt get preferential treatment, but at the same time any help in this climate is appreciated. The lower league clubs seem to be weathering it better than the championship clubs i dont doubt there are clubs struggling but the 2 main ones that hit the panic button are in the championship being Morton and ICT less than 3 months into saying they could complete the season with no fans. Edited December 31, 2020 by AL-FFC 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Have you written to your board requesting that they refuse this payment or is it just perceived lesser clubs than yours receiving money that you don't like? You asked me that about 20 pages back FFS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) Serious question. Do football clubs have access to the standard government assistance available to organisations at this time? I know money is available to pubs and restaurants etc depending on whether they were partially open, fully closed etc. Interest free loans have also been made available depending on the size of the organisation. Are these not available to football clubs too? Edited December 31, 2020 by Shadwell Dog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bairn88 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, The Moonster said: That's not what Shadwell is arguing. He doesn't think football clubs should get preferential treatment. It's a fair question. I find it bizarre that people who have businesses are saying "I'm getting nothing so others shouldn't get anything" rather than asking "why is my business not getting anything?". Money should be available for all who need it. We've wasted £22 Billion on test and trace and it doesn't even work, I'm fine with football clubs being given a bit to survive. I think you’re misunderstanding everyone’s point. I genuinely am happy that a package has been put together that should mean no club goes bust. I wouldn’t want a club to go bust, even if their board haven’t planned for this season without fans etc. Behind dodgy boards is usually a fan base not much different to our own. What does seem absurd is clubs can be better off from this pandemic season than they would’ve been without it. Alloa, arbroath etc getting 500k, turning a tidy profit? Whilst countless businesses (pubs, restaurants etc.) literally go out of business? This blanket approach allows that to happen. I don’t think there is a 100% satisfactory way of doing this. However, to me, the approach they have taken seems lazy, and if I was a struggling business owner where 50 or 100k grant could’ve saved my livelihood, or my employee’s livelihood, or my families ability to stay in their house or eat, I really think joking with inane memes about those pointing out some clubs will be doing VERY well out of this package would stick in my throat. Edited December 31, 2020 by bairn88 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proudtobeabairn Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, Numbers_One_To_Eleven said: Maybe I’m basing it on historical evidence but in 45 years since league reconstruction we’ve had 4 spells in the top flight and looked to really kick on twice, in 94/95 and the mid noughites, and messed it up pretty quickly. Now there is even more completion as I said with newer clubs in the mix and are now more established. Kind of like Scotland and more countries and tougher countries to face compared to past times. Having aspiration is great but a dose of reality shouldn’t be dismissed either. Pish - Falkirk are a bigger club (in terms of support and potential income) than a good number in the SPL and all of those 'new' clubs you've mentioned. We aren't there because of mismanagement. Get things right off the park and in the dugout and we can 100% become an established premier league club. Any argument to the contrary is just accepting failure. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggerG Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Numbers_One_To_Eleven said: I don’t agree. When you say “we should be an SPL team” I assume you mean something along the lines of a Kilmarnock or St Johnstone. Year in year out SPL status and even flourishing at times. Good luck with that ambition supporting us. Tired of the nearly club tag like some are tired of the happy clapper supporters which has been aimed at me. And no, I’m not thunderously applauding a 0-0 home draw against Raith Rovers! And neither you should, considering it was 0-0 home draw against Partick Thistle! The problem you have here is that there's a system of promotion and relegation. Assuming (it's a big assumption) that the season is played to a conclusion, it's highly likely that Hearts will be back up with a fair chance of a Dundee or a Dunfermline joining them. We'll also have a Hamilton, Ross County or maybe even a St Johnstone coming down. If we manage to get promoted we're very likely to be one of the 'biggest' clubs in the Championship who, with the right direction, should be able to compete with whichever teams we're up against. It's hardly a stretch to suggest that we could get promoted again from that situation. The reason that clubs the size of ourselves and PT are where we are is down to mismanagement of the previous BODs and disastrous managerial appointments. The irony is that, even with all the recent shit we've had to put up with, the fan base is as strong as it has been for years and we're definitely a bigger club than we were when we left Brockville. If we manage to get success on the park I can only see the club getting stronger and don't see any reason why we can't compete with the likes of Motherwell & Kilmarnock in the long term. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL-FFC Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) Out the clubs names i could say Motherwell (since administration), St MIrren, St Johnstone and Hamilton are the ones being ran right County have the potential to do a Gretna once the funding stops, Livingston admin 3 times and how they manage to keep things going just now jury is out, Killie recently had a CVA with their creditors i believe and wrote off some debts. For us the source of our funding disappeared when we cut the academy (which they have now realised and trying to remedy) as no saleable assets in players. The Brentford model was poorly executed, the players recruited the less said the better not to mention paying of f**k knows how many players and a fine for tapping a poor excuse for a manager not to mention one half arsed ill thought out approach after the other. Edited December 31, 2020 by AL-FFC 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Our main issue by far over the past decade or so has been football decisions . Since the ridiculous appointment of Eddie may it's been one feck up and crap manager after another with the exception of the 3 seasons under Houston. In the main in recent years the football budget has been very competitive it's just how it's been spent that has been the main problem. Recruitment since we dropped from the premier has been utterly dreadful bar the odd gem and continues in than vein currently unfortunately. It has to improve massively if we are to get anywhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Some of the whining is embarrassing over this grant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL-FFC Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Hopefully have Keena back this weekend in some sort of capacity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbers_One_To_Eleven Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, Proudtobeabairn said: Pish - Falkirk are a bigger club (in terms of support and potential income) than a good number in the SPL and all of those 'new' clubs you've mentioned. We aren't there because of mismanagement. Get things right off the park and in the dugout and we can 100% become an established premier league club. Any argument to the contrary is just accepting failure. Not buying it, the best this club is geared up for is yo-yo between Prem and Championship or Hamilton levels of survival and, really, who wants that?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbers_One_To_Eleven Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: Our main issue by far over the past decade or so has been football decisions . Since the ridiculous appointment of Eddie may it's been one feck up and crap manager after another with the exception of the 3 seasons under Houston. In the main in recent years the football budget has been very competitive it's just how it's been spent that has been the main problem. Recruitment since we dropped from the premier has been utterly dreadful bar the odd gem and continues in than vein currently unfortunately. It has to improve massively if we are to get anywhere. Clubs do bounce back from bad appointments, we do like to dwell on bad appointments. Presley wasn’t great but hardly a disaster and hamstrung by the league system of only one automatic promotion, won by clubs that were able to blitz the league. Holt was pretty good in his year. Houston was good but fell a bit short. I know Hartley and MacKinnon were poor but Hartley did sort out Houston’s mess to an extent in his first season and MacKinnon was sorting out Hartley mess before inexplicably playing it safe and sharply going downhill. I reiterate, they are still poor but things were sorted out pretty quickly by the club. The single worst thing to happen to this club since Prem relegation was Hartleys pre-season, that’s what really set us back! My main point is I do feel, as fans overall, we have a part to play in the downturn. If we can find an excuse or a justification or a moan, then we will grab it quickly and with both hands!! Edited December 31, 2020 by Numbers_One_To_Eleven 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopeStreetWalker Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 35 minutes ago, Numbers_One_To_Eleven said: Not buying it, the best this club is geared up for is yo-yo between Prem and Championship or Hamilton levels of survival and, really, who wants that?? Falkirk have under preformed for decades. Glimpses of what could be done were seen with Cunningham , Totten , Jeffries , Hughes , Houston before it all goes wrong. It's as if we have this gene for grasping defeat and decline form the jaws of long term success. In the end it comes down to ownership St Johnstone being the example of what happens when you get it right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbers_One_To_Eleven Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said: Falkirk have under preformed for decades. Glimpses of what could be done were seen with Cunningham , Totten , Jeffries , Hughes , Houston before it all goes wrong. It's as if we have this gene for grasping defeat and decline form the jaws of long term success. In the end it comes down to ownership St Johnstone being the example of what happens when you get it right. . Even the stadium is an example of it! Also, can you not go back further after the Scottish Cup win and the ensuing relegation then mediocre 60s?? Edited December 31, 2020 by Numbers_One_To_Eleven 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Not buying it, the best this club is geared up for is yo-yo between Prem and Championship or Hamilton levels of survival and, really, who wants that?? No ambition and blaming fans fans for our downturn. I thought you had fucked off Lex? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Shadwell Dog said: Serious question. Do football clubs have access to the standard government assistance available to organisations at this time? I know money is available to pubs and restaurants etc depending on whether they were partially open, fully closed etc. Interest free loans have also been made available depending on the size of the organisation. Are these not available to football clubs too? We have a government loan of, I think £50k which is sitting in our Bank Account. Remember Gary saying they took it ‘just in case’. Havent checked the accounts yet but I’m sure someone else will confirm or deny. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 55 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said: Some of the whining is embarrassing over this grant. To be fair to FFC, Gary stated he was over the moon at the £150k. More than he expected. It was just the ridiculous amount paid to the part time Championship sides which he found irritating. I agree with him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbers_One_To_Eleven Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said: No ambition and blaming fans fans for our downturn. I thought you had fucked off Lex? Standard response from a large section of our support. Of course, with the hackneyed humour of saying it came from someone else on the board. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Standard response from a large section of our support. Of course, with the hackneyed humour of saying it came from someone else on the board.Sorry Andy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 To be fair to FFC, Gary stated he was over the moon at the £150k. More than he expected. It was just the ridiculous amount paid to the part time Championship sides which he found irritating. I agree with him.Was actually talking about the fans. For what it is worth football should think they are bloody lucky, shut up and get on with things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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