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The Falkirk FC Thread

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34 minutes ago, renton said:

It's a 4-5 month lay off that includes the off season, so more like a 2-3 month unscheduled lay off. Why would a season kicking off a month late, as per your September prediction (granted that's the earliest you say) be a commercial disaster? 

Assuming staff are furloughed, then the majority of the workforce should still have jobs to go back into. Not to play down the economic struggles here, but unlike an economic downturn caused by an implosion of the financial sector, most pundits seem to think that there would be a quick bounce back here precisely because companies have the various government protections in place (what that means for public spending down the line is another thing).

I dont for a second think that the narrative you've laid out is not plausible. It is. However, a season kicking off a month late than it other wise should've, so long as clubs have the ability to plan for that, shouldn't be something that puts scores of clubs under. 

For me the danger is in a significant lag time between furlough and season starting, and if players come off furlough in June time (for argument sakes, based on Michael Gove's leaked efforts yesterday) then it has to be with the plausible intention of putting the season on before October. Otherwise there would need to be some form of limited extension for some industries like football to make it through.

You make good points. Your comment on players being furloughed only applies to your contract of employment. Football clubs have players on short term contracts. We have 10 players signed for next season ( is there a get out clause if we don't get promoted ? ) plus Miller and McCracken out of contract end of June. 

With no certainty on what the future holds you can't budget because you don't know your income so you don't know your expenditure. If you can't budget then you cut costs and hang on for as long as you can with the reserves you have.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

You make good points. Your comment on players being furloughed only applies to your contract of employment. Football clubs have players on short term contracts. We have 10 players signed for next season ( is there a get out clause if we don't get promoted ? ) plus Miller and McCracken out of contract end of June. 

With no certainty on what the future holds you can't budget because you don't know your income so you don't know your expenditure. If you can't budget then you cut costs and hang on for as long as you can with the reserves you have.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's fair, and it's why some degree of clarity around post lockdown planning is a must. Even if it means a longer lay off than we'd all like, better to be able to plan against something with a degree of confidence.

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1 hour ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

Players, Staff and Fans safety is the criteria that has to drive any restart. Then and only then can you look at players retained , on the market or free agents for your playing squad.

Many professional football players will have left the game due to the 4 - 5month layoff and the insecurity of not knowing when football will start again. They need money coming in and it won't come from football.

If you are coming to the end of your career Gomis for example. Training getting your touch and the pace of the game back will be a torrid experience. For what ? a season of goodness knows what. No chance - call it a day.

After such a lay off many will be a shadow of the player they were and clubs will want to know what they are getting. Then you have the contracts and out of contracts all over the place. Not so much a merry go round but a Marx Brothers farce.

Cannot see a league starting without 2-3 months notice. With that timeline it's September - October kick off at the earliest, and that would be a commercial disaster.

Then there is the fans. Many if not most will not have the disposable income they had pre Covid19. It therefore stands to reason crowds all round will be down. That cascades to reduced sponsorship and advertising.

Its a total mess ! and there are going to be a clubs that sadly won't make it.

I don't apologise for the doom and gloom but we require a reality check on what is unfolding in the next few months.

I just hope FFC in some form is there. Nothing ambitious than that. 

 

 

GD suggested in his interview without getting the begging bowls out we are ok till around Aug/Sept time

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GD suggested in his interview without getting the begging bowls out we are ok till around Aug/Sept time

The longer this goes on the more apparent it becomes we may never return to fitba life as it was. Realistically Scotland has moved on anyway from the days when football attracted the crowds necessary to support the numbers of professional/ semi pro teams we currently have.
Re -Construction should result in one pro league of 14clubs , gate money should be shared. It would be a brave move and the silver lining is that crowds might just increase ( Edinburgh could have 50,000 fans each week falkirk 10,000 ) Newcastle (smaller than Edinburgh gets 50000) to watch a currently poor side but the difference is the wage differential in their league might only be the bottom sides are on 50% of the man city wages not the 95% differential that we have in Scotland. The game here is fuckfed and outside the old firm the fans show it by voting not to bother and preferring to watch the more competitive premier league on tv The game needs to have a more equitable basis in Scotland and increased competition just might make the league more attractive to TV and therefore investors ,resulting in dare I say it a better old firm that are if challenged week in week out it might make them more competitive in Europe.
If covid devastates our game ( and it could ) we need to re think take advantage and bounce back with a much improved set up for the modern day fan + media to be interested . This could be a once in a generation chance to get the product right, The current product bores everyone shitless , even Aberdeen get out bid by English non league teams.
Unfortunately that means the end of the likes of stranrar voting on the proposals . Without the league membership payout they are no bigger than Camelon juniors and they should be competing in a part time league from which they can get promoted to the professional league only if they have decent facilities and can go full time .
It won’t happen sadly but if it did here would be my controversial 14
Celtic
Rangers
Dundee city
Hearts
Hibs
Falkirk ( central)
Fife United
Ayrshire
Lanarkshire
Aberdeen
Highlands
Perth saints
Livingston
Dunfermline
After a few years the complaints would die away and we could have a great set up !

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The longer this goes on the more apparent it becomes we may never return to fitba life as it was. Realistically Scotland has moved on anyway from the days when football attracted the crowds necessary to support the numbers of professional/ semi pro teams we currently have.
Re -Construction should result in one pro league of 14clubs , gate money should be shared. It would be a brave move and the silver lining is that crowds might just increase ( Edinburgh could have 50,000 fans each week falkirk 10,000 ) Newcastle (smaller than Edinburgh gets 50000) to watch a currently poor side but the difference is the wage differential in their league might only be the bottom sides are on 50% of the man city wages not the 95% differential that we have in Scotland. The game here is fuckfed and outside the old firm the fans show it by voting not to bother and preferring to watch the more competitive premier league on tv The game needs to have a more equitable basis in Scotland and increased competition just might make the league more attractive to TV and therefore investors ,resulting in dare I say it a better old firm that are if challenged week in week out it might make them more competitive in Europe.
If covid devastates our game ( and it could ) we need to re think take advantage and bounce back with a much improved set up for the modern day fan + media to be interested . This could be a once in a generation chance to get the product right, The current product bores everyone shitless , even Aberdeen get out bid by English non league teams.
Unfortunately that means the end of the likes of stranrar voting on the proposals . Without the league membership payout they are no bigger than Camelon juniors and they should be competing in a part time league from which they can get promoted to the professional league only if they have decent facilities and can go full time .
It won’t happen sadly but if it did here would be my controversial 14
Celtic
Rangers
Dundee city
Hearts
Hibs
Falkirk ( central)
Fife United
Ayrshire
Lanarkshire
Aberdeen
Highlands
Perth saints
Livingston
Dunfermline
After a few years the complaints would die away and we could have a great set up !

Are you having a fuc.....


Never mind

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Yes sadly guess I am we no longer have corner shops , the man from the Pru , reliant robins or coal mines so why should fitba stay the same ..... the world has moved on

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Nice thought Stainrod but the problem with that is it would take a generation or two to be accepted. How many Falkirk fans would accept a new team that played in Falkirk if it didn't play in blue and wasn't called Falkirk? Same for Fife and  Dundee it's only human nature.

Had this conversation a few times and I could only go to a game involving a Fife Utd side if I was taking a grandchild, I'm too dyed in the wool to support another team now.

Also why not go the full hog and have a British league with 1 team in Edinburgh, 1 in Dundee, 1 in Dundee and one in the North (Aberdeen), surely that'd be the next logical step.

Interestingly why did you suggest Livvi & Dunfermline would survive but not Falkirk or say Motherwell?

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1 hour ago, Long Suffering Bairn said:

If the impossible happens, what do you think reconstruction would look like?   Three leagues of 14?   That would mean playing 39 games, with some teams having the advantage of playing some teams twice at home and once away?   Some other way?

Depends what clubs are left. Some of those surviving will be financially distressed which is not good for the product on the pitch. That in turn could get some clubs thinking the unthinkable and do an Inverness Caledonian - Thistle amalgamation. If its an alternative to closure it will focus some minds.

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Nice thought Stainrod but the problem with that is it would take a generation or two to be accepted. How many Falkirk fans would accept a new team that played in Falkirk if it didn't play in blue and wasn't called Falkirk? Same for Fife and  Dundee it's only human nature.
Had this conversation a few times and I could only go to a game involving a Fife Utd side if I was taking a grandchild, I'm too dyed in the wool to support another team now.
Also why not go the full hog and have a British league with 1 team in Edinburgh, 1 in Dundee, 1 in Dundee and one in the North (Aberdeen), surely that'd be the next logical step.
Interestingly why did you suggest Livvi & Dunfermline would survive but not Falkirk or say Motherwell?

Falkirk would essentially survive given the facilities we have livi geographically could support a team given the facilities . Hamilton and airdrie are joke teams Motherwell have a dump as a stadium combining them into one decent team makes sense.
The argument about tradition is always going to be there but I you never hear from meadowbank , Clyde bank or third lanark fans plus it has to change sometime for the game to survive , Why not now the pandemic might just be the straw that breaks the camels back . Football in the main has turned into a virtual museum for many clubs who just exist to preserve the status quo and history. That may well have been enough in the past but given the growth of the game down south the days if stainrod Andy gray Waddell mo Johnston mcavenny etc signing for us have gone! The Gap just gets wider and wider cause our product is shit . If we think continuing to preserve our own museum is a viable plan for the future and we don’t grasp the opportunity for real change then in my opinion it’s an opportunity lost.

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29 minutes ago, Scottydog said:

Nice thought Stainrod but the problem with that is it would take a generation or two to be accepted. How many Falkirk fans would accept a new team that played in Falkirk if it didn't play in blue and wasn't called Falkirk? Same for Fife and  Dundee it's only human nature.

Had this conversation a few times and I could only go to a game involving a Fife Utd side if I was taking a grandchild, I'm too dyed in the wool to support another team now.

Also why not go the full hog and have a British league with 1 team in Edinburgh, 1 in Dundee, 1 in Dundee and one in the North (Aberdeen), surely that'd be the next logical step.

Interestingly why did you suggest Livvi & Dunfermline would survive but not Falkirk or say Motherwell?

Dundee already have 2 teams ??

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11 minutes ago, Stainrod said:


Falkirk would essentially survive given the facilities we have livi geographically could support a team given the facilities . Hamilton and airdrie are joke teams Motherwell have a dump as a stadium combining them into one decent team makes sense.
The argument about tradition is always going to be there but I you never hear from meadowbank , Clyde bank or third lanark fans plus it has to change sometime for the game to survive , Why not now the pandemic might just be the straw that breaks the camels back . Football in the main has turned into a virtual museum for many clubs who just exist to preserve the status quo and history. That may well have been enough in the past but given the growth of the game down south the days if stainrod Andy gray Waddell mo Johnston mcavenny etc signing for us have gone! The Gap just gets wider and wider cause our product is shit . If we think continuing to preserve our own museum is a viable plan for the future and we don’t grasp the opportunity for real change then in my opinion it’s an opportunity lost.

But Falkirk don't have the facilities. This has been discussed at great lengths over the last few weeks, we are tenants of the Falkirk Community Stadium.

Change whether amalgamation or any other reason will only come about due to mutual survival in some form. ie Arbroath -Montrose - Forfar - Brechin. If they all look like going under then they think the unthinkable. 

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The longer this goes on the more apparent it becomes we may never return to fitba life as it was. Realistically Scotland has moved on anyway from the days when football attracted the crowds necessary to support the numbers of professional/ semi pro teams we currently have.
Re -Construction should result in one pro league of 14clubs , gate money should be shared. It would be a brave move and the silver lining is that crowds might just increase ( Edinburgh could have 50,000 fans each week falkirk 10,000 ) Newcastle (smaller than Edinburgh gets 50000) to watch a currently poor side but the difference is the wage differential in their league might only be the bottom sides are on 50% of the man city wages not the 95% differential that we have in Scotland. The game here is fuckfed and outside the old firm the fans show it by voting not to bother and preferring to watch the more competitive premier league on tv The game needs to have a more equitable basis in Scotland and increased competition just might make the league more attractive to TV and therefore investors ,resulting in dare I say it a better old firm that are if challenged week in week out it might make them more competitive in Europe.
If covid devastates our game ( and it could ) we need to re think take advantage and bounce back with a much improved set up for the modern day fan + media to be interested . This could be a once in a generation chance to get the product right, The current product bores everyone shitless , even Aberdeen get out bid by English non league teams.
Unfortunately that means the end of the likes of stranrar voting on the proposals . Without the league membership payout they are no bigger than Camelon juniors and they should be competing in a part time league from which they can get promoted to the professional league only if they have decent facilities and can go full time .
It won’t happen sadly but if it did here would be my controversial 14
Celtic
Rangers
Dundee city
Hearts
Hibs
Falkirk ( central)
Fife United
Ayrshire
Lanarkshire
Aberdeen
Highlands
Perth saints
Livingston
Dunfermline
After a few years the complaints would die away and we could have a great set up !

Livingston?? Why? What do they bring to the table? Christ almighty, Raith and Airdrie are bigger than that lot (although funded differently). If you have a Hearts and a Hibs, you do not need a Livingston.

Dundee City would never work. A Fife United and a Dunfermline? Wtf is that?

Ayrshire....not a snowball’s chance in hell.

Gate money being shared? Not a chance. That caper died post the Ibrox disaster, and will never come back. Not ever.

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If Falkirk aren't just plain old Falkirk then I'll just give up. I'm 80% of the way there anyway and it's simply the fact I've been going week in and week out for 34yrs that keeps me coming back. Every season gets harder to justify and the last 3 seasons have really tested my resolve. The away trips aren't what they were, the banters non existent and the fans are on the whole a bunch of whining p***ks who like watching Barcelona on tv but are happy with Buckie Thistle on the park.

And I'm not one to slope off and pretend I've a 2nd team in the English Premiership either, I'd rather just give up the game completely.

Edited by ChrispPancake

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The longer this goes on the more apparent it becomes we may never return to fitba life as it was. Realistically Scotland has moved on anyway from the days when football attracted the crowds necessary to support the numbers of professional/ semi pro teams we currently have.
Re -Construction should result in one pro league of 14clubs , gate money should be shared. It would be a brave move and the silver lining is that crowds might just increase ( Edinburgh could have 50,000 fans each week falkirk 10,000 ) Newcastle (smaller than Edinburgh gets 50000) to watch a currently poor side but the difference is the wage differential in their league might only be the bottom sides are on 50% of the man city wages not the 95% differential that we have in Scotland. The game here is fuckfed and outside the old firm the fans show it by voting not to bother and preferring to watch the more competitive premier league on tv The game needs to have a more equitable basis in Scotland and increased competition just might make the league more attractive to TV and therefore investors ,resulting in dare I say it a better old firm that are if challenged week in week out it might make them more competitive in Europe.
If covid devastates our game ( and it could ) we need to re think take advantage and bounce back with a much improved set up for the modern day fan + media to be interested . This could be a once in a generation chance to get the product right, The current product bores everyone shitless , even Aberdeen get out bid by English non league teams.
Unfortunately that means the end of the likes of stranrar voting on the proposals . Without the league membership payout they are no bigger than Camelon juniors and they should be competing in a part time league from which they can get promoted to the professional league only if they have decent facilities and can go full time .
It won’t happen sadly but if it did here would be my controversial 14
Celtic
Rangers
Dundee city
Hearts
Hibs
Falkirk ( central)
Fife United
Ayrshire
Lanarkshire
Aberdeen
Highlands
Perth saints
Livingston
Dunfermline
After a few years the complaints would die away and we could have a great set up !

WTF is this????…

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1 hour ago, ChrispPancake said:

If Falkirk aren't just plain old Falkirk then I'll just give up. I'm 80% of the way there anyway and it's simply the fact I've been going week in and week out for 34yrs that keeps me coming back. Every season gets harder to justify and the last 3 seasons have really tested my resolve. The away trips aren't what they were, the banters non existent and the fans are on the whole a bunch of whining p***ks who like watching Barcelona on tv but are happy with Buckie Thistle on the park.

And I'm not one to slope off and pretend I've a 2nd team in the English Premiership either, I'd rather just give up the game completely.

It's all hypothetical at the moment and hopefully there is an FFC at the end of this unfolding human tragedy that does put football into perspective.

In the end it all comes down to certainty. When will life, crowds at football matches etc become possible ? What timeline will the authorities that run the game give for clubs to sort themselves out and put a team on the pitch ? What football league structure will we have as there will be clubs that don't make it ?

Once there is a timeline and clubs know where they stand then there is a way forward.

Stay Safe !

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It's always the wee teams who lose out when reconstruction is proposed but brechin, stenny etc can survive, they aren't looking to get to the top league and compete with a Aberdeen, hibs, hearts, Celtic and rangers so won't struggle the way teams with some ambition have, us, dunfermline, partick etc. Why not leave them and the pyramid alone to get on the way they always have, playing an important part in each community. As for a top league, 14 teams with basically st johnstone, livy and dunfermline while amalgamating ayr/killie etc is (sorry to say) just daft. Plus ignoring the main positive of having city teams, Edinburgh could compete with glasgow, scrap the old firm and you get the boost of ending the sectarian crap right throughout scotland and every town and city in scotland would have loads of ex old firm fans to boost the support of their new local teams (not sure if this really would be good or not considering the old firm supporters) so start at the top with amalgamation and work down not up! 

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See if we end up with behind closed doors football, I will more than happily stump up a tenner for FTV to watch the games and keep the club solvent.

But they fucking better invest in some better internet, and some support for the guys doing it.

They get slagged a lot on here but if they are all we have to watch football and put money in, they deserve much better support from the club.

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Falkirk would essentially survive given the facilities we have livi geographically could support a team given the facilities . Hamilton and airdrie are joke teams Motherwell have a dump as a stadium combining them into one decent team makes sense.

The argument about tradition is always going to be there but I you never hear from meadowbank , Clyde bank or third lanark fans plus it has to change sometime for the game to survive , Why not now the pandemic might just be the straw that breaks the camels back . Football in the main has turned into a virtual museum for many clubs who just exist to preserve the status quo and history. That may well have been enough in the past but given the growth of the game down south the days if stainrod Andy gray Waddell mo Johnston mcavenny etc signing for us have gone! The Gap just gets wider and wider cause our product is shit . If we think continuing to preserve our own museum is a viable plan for the future and we don’t grasp the opportunity for real change then in my opinion it’s an opportunity lost.

Are you really Ann Budge in disguise?.....

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The longer this goes on the more apparent it becomes we may never return to fitba life as it was. Realistically Scotland has moved on anyway from the days when football attracted the crowds necessary to support the numbers of professional/ semi pro teams we currently have.

Re -Construction should result in one pro league of 14clubs , gate money should be shared. It would be a brave move and the silver lining is that crowds might just increase ( Edinburgh could have 50,000 fans each week falkirk 10,000 ) Newcastle (smaller than Edinburgh gets 50000) to watch a currently poor side but the difference is the wage differential in their league might only be the bottom sides are on 50% of the man city wages not the 95% differential that we have in Scotland. The game here is fuckfed and outside the old firm the fans show it by voting not to bother and preferring to watch the more competitive premier league on tv The game needs to have a more equitable basis in Scotland and increased competition just might make the league more attractive to TV and therefore investors ,resulting in dare I say it a better old firm that are if challenged week in week out it might make them more competitive in Europe.

If covid devastates our game ( and it could ) we need to re think take advantage and bounce back with a much improved set up for the modern day fan + media to be interested . This could be a once in a generation chance to get the product right, The current product bores everyone shitless , even Aberdeen get out bid by English non league teams.

Unfortunately that means the end of the likes of stranrar voting on the proposals . Without the league membership payout they are no bigger than Camelon juniors and they should be competing in a part time league from which they can get promoted to the professional league only if they have decent facilities and can go full time .

It won’t happen sadly but if it did here would be my controversial 14

Celtic

Rangers

Dundee city

Hearts

Hibs

Falkirk ( central)

Fife United

Ayrshire

Lanarkshire

Aberdeen

Highlands

Perth saints

Livingston

Dunfermline

After a few years the complaints would die away and we could have a great set up !

 

Livingston most of the Championship and 3 teams in League 1 have a bigger fan base than that no mark franchise.

 

Teams covering an area would only work if they were setup when football started in the 19th century, football is too tribal and rivalries too fierce.

 

Mergers don’t really work, the only mergers that have any hope of success have to be teams from the same town/city like Inverness. Fife United! So where would they play? I’m guessing Kirkcaldy as it’s the biggest town but then it’s a Kirkcaldy team and fans of East Fife will just start up a new team in Non League or be lost to the game forever. While teams will pick up support from surrounding towns and villages 90% come from the town it’s based in or they or their family previously lived there. Having 1 team in Angus based in Arbroath doesn’t mean the Support will be Montrose + Brechin + Arbroath + Forfar it means Arbroath + 10% of Brechin + 10% of Montrose + 10% of Forfar.

 

 

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