The Falkirk FC Thread

[Reggie Perrin]

It certainly would be, it would be good to know exactly what we have at Westfield.
We have SSDL, FFC, FCSL and  Council in some form or another at Westfield.
With the shock of the Academy being binned, there was a statement used that the costs of running the academy were too expensive. 
Wouldn’t it be a line in the sand for our new chairman to give the fans a comprehensive factual breakdown of what It costs to play at the stadium.
Im sure that after the recent two/three seasons where the relationship ( sorry no relationship) between the fans & BOD has become poisonous at times, could we have some sort of new beginning ?
We currently have an opportunity or an olive branch to get back the fans who walked away following many bad decisions by the BOD, with the academy shutting, the appalling race card, the attack on our fans etc etc 

Don’t hold your breath.

[Shadwell Dog]

5 minutes ago, Bantabairn said:

It certainly would be, it would be good to know exactly what we have at Westfield.

We have SSDL, FFC, FCSL and  Council in some form or another at Westfield.
With the shock of the Academy being binned, there was a statement used that the costs of running the academy were too expensive. 
Wouldn’t it be a line in the sand for our new chairman to give the fans a comprehensive factual breakdown of what It costs to play at the stadium.

Im sure that after the recent two/three seasons where the relationship ( sorry no relationship) between the fans & BOD has become poisonous at times, could we have some sort of new beginning ?

We currently have an opportunity or an olive branch to get back the fans who walked away following many bad decisions by the BOD, with the academy shutting, the appalling race card, the attack on our fans etc etc 

FCSL are the council. They own FCSL and use it to run the revenue raising areas of the stadium. FFC then own the north stand,pitch, floodlights and seats in the west stand etc. We also rent the South stand from Sandy Alexander via the SSDL. 

[Shadwell Dog]

1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Yes.

I don’t know the terms of the lease between FFC and SA(SSDL).

Would be interesting to know?

So far we've paid circa 800k in rent to SSDL.  That would put us almost a third of the way through paying it off the 2.5m it cost. I'd like to think that once we've done that SA would do the decent thing and hand it over surely.

[HopeStreetWalker]

1 hour ago, Bantabairn said:

Sorry missed Dawson Park confirming earlier post. So as far as the south stand is concerned the South Stand Development Ltd is SA  who is one of our major shareholders ?

There is just no clarity regarding who own what in the stadium. Whether this is intentional or just being inept is for each individual to make their mind up.

People have posted in good faith what they have managed to find out and it is a farce what is being exposed. The Council own the Community stadium company. They own everything apart from the South stand which is owned by Alexander, the seating in the whole stadium and the pitch is owned by FFC.

What a way not to run a business. Those involved at FFC that resulted in this situation should be named and shamed.

It just reinforces my opinion we get out and leave them to it. Hire the place when required just as companies hire it for a concert.

[Shadwell Dog]

2 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

There is just no clarity regarding who own what in the stadium. Whether this is intentional or just being inept is for each individual to make their mind up.

People have posted in good faith what they have managed to find out and it is a farce what is being exposed. The Council own the Community stadium company. They own everything apart from the South stand which is owned by Alexander, the seating in the whole stadium and the pitch is owned by FFC.

What a way not to run a business. Those involved at FFC that resulted in this situation should be named and shamed.

It just reinforces my opinion we get out and leave them to it. Hire the place when required just as companies hire it for a concert.

They dont own the north stand. We own that as it has no other use than for football . So I suppose the one wee benefit we got was not having to pay the cost of it. Small fry though when compared to what the council got out of it.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[HopeStreetWalker]

21 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

They dont own the north stand. We own that as it has no other use than for football . So I suppose the one wee benefit we got was not having to pay the cost of it. Small fry though when compared to what the council got out of it.

One thing I have learned Shadwell from the last days posts on this subject. There are so many fingers in the pie regarding the stadium. FFC  buying it outright is impossible and was never a workable option.

We have to sever all ties regarding having a share in the Stadium. If that means handing our shares in the Stadium Company over to the council so be it. Nothing to lose as it has never made money. Lets be nothing more than a company that hires the venue when required. It would save FFC a fortune per season. 

 

[AL-FFC]

2 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

One thing I have learned Shadwell from the last days posts on this subject. There are so many fingers in the pie regarding the stadium. FFC  buying it outright is impossible and was never a workable option.

We have to sever all ties regarding having a share in the Stadium. If that means handing our shares in the Stadium Company over to the council so be it. Nothing to lose as it has never made money. Lets be nothing more than a company that hires the venue when required. It would save FFC a fortune per season. 

 

Thing with that is the council are staring at a financial abyss you only need to look at how much they have sold various bits around the area off for i.e. lidl, bantaskine estate if they were given a decent offer they would probably bite the clubs hands off the trouble is the MSG are stagnant and they neither have the will nor desire to do anything that would be seen as progress given the way we feel towards to them and vice versa lets face it  your not going to go out your way to improve things if your hated so why would they.

[Shadwell Dog]

8 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

One thing I have learned Shadwell from the last days posts on this subject. There are so many fingers in the pie regarding the stadium. FFC  buying it outright is impossible and was never a workable option.

We have to sever all ties regarding having a share in the Stadium. If that means handing our shares in the Stadium Company over to the council so be it. Nothing to lose as it has never made money. Lets be nothing more than a company that hires the venue when required. It would save FFC a fortune per season. 

 

Or build a 4th stand with changing rooms and hospitality facilities then we wouldnt need to rent anything off the council as all we would use in the west stand is the seats we own.

[HopeStreetWalker]

18 minutes ago, AL-FFC said:

Thing with that is the council are staring at a financial abyss you only need to look at how much they have sold various bits around the area off for i.e. lidl, bantaskine estate if they were given a decent offer they would probably bite the clubs hands off the trouble is the MSG are stagnant and they neither have the will nor desire to do anything that would be seen as progress given the way we feel towards to them and vice versa lets face it  your not going to go out your way to improve things if your hated so why would they.

But we would have to get all the parties and Uncle Tom Cobblie's that have invested in this money making scam at FFC's expense to agree to sell at the same time. Never going to happen !

[MrDust]

15 hours ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Mind playing tranmere and john Aldridge scoring from the half way line in a 4 1 pumping.

I got Aldridge's autograph after that game after going round main entrance and getting in with some Tranmere fans.

I tried to get him to write"they don't talk like we do do la, we have to teach them to talk proppa John Aldridge" but he just signed his name, for those that don't know that was his part in the Anfield rap.

After meeting a few Tranmere players(Sarah Scott was puzzled why I was there) we all ended up round at the Graeme and planned to meet up at St Johnstone whom they were playing couple of days later. I turned up in shorts and Falkirk top in the main stand, one stand only open of which I got some Perth scowls for a game which Tranmere were getting humped in first half, then basically changed full 11 and humped St Johnstone 2nd half and won 3-1 or 3-2 I think.

Another Tranmere story To edge away from the stadium blues ! I went to every cup game in the year we got to the final v Killie in a Tranmere top and not to break the superstition I had it on at the final of which Tony and I think Angela Tranmere fans whom I met in our friendly and when I was down to see Tranmere.The pair of them were  wearing Falkirk tops, I managed to catch up with them in the ground via amazing stewards, who allowed me to get me up to top tier of the broomloan stand pre kick off to say Hiya etc before getting back down to my seat in the lower part. The result doesn't need to be discussed but Tony is now an Ambassador at Tranmere and I haven't been back down to Tranmere since either Yeovil or Brentford game with the latter Farid on the bench.

[HopeStreetWalker]

17 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Or build a 4th stand with changing rooms and hospitality facilities then we wouldnt need to rent anything off the council as all we would use in the west stand is the seats we own.

Get what you mean ! but that leaves FFC still in the hands of the stadium company that own the building the seats are on. Therefore at the mercy of the council that can up costs at will. Out of the frying pan and into the fire - It's madness ! We must be the only football club that owns seats but not the grandstand. 

As for the 4th Stand. There is the new synthetic pitch to consider. Where would the parking be ? Got it in one the council owned carpark opposite. 

[Shadwell Dog]

10 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

Get what you mean ! but that leaves FFC still in the hands of the stadium company that own the building the seats are on. Therefore at the mercy of the council that can up costs at will. Out of the frying pan and into the fire - It's madness ! We must be the only football club that owns seats but not the grandstand. 

As for the 4th Stand. There is the new synthetic pitch to consider. Where would the parking be ? Got it in one the council owned carpark opposite. 

But we wouldnt need to pay them for anything though surely as we wouldnt be using anything the stadium company own. All we would use in the west stand would be the seats and to be honest depending on the number of seats in the east stand you could probably get away without using it at all for most games. Build an east stand with 2k seats and your capacity is still more than enough. Leave the west stand empty unless the old firm or hibs and hearts come to town. Your then only paying SA for the south stand.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[HopeStreetWalker]

11 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

But we wouldnt need to pay them for anything though surely as we wouldnt be using anything the stadium company own. All we would use in the west stand would be the seats and to be honest depending on the number of seats in the east stand you could probably get away without using it at all for most games. Build an east stand with 2k seats and your capacity is still more than enough. Leave the west stand empty unless the old firm or hibs and hearts come to town. Your then only paying SA for the south stand.

The game of endless scenarios continue. Interesting point on the hotel suggestion. That would depend on the Council giving planning permission - aye I can see going well - - Not !

[HopeStreetWalker]

20 minutes ago, Bantabairn said:

Fed up saying this but utter incompetence/negligence from the day we signed over Brockville to Morrison’s 

Yes ! hindsight is a great thing. But alarm bells should have been ringing right from the start. Number 1- This is Falkirk Council we are dealing with. No further comment required.

[Shadwell Dog]

42 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

The game of endless scenarios continue. Interesting point on the hotel suggestion. That would depend on the Council giving planning permission - aye I can see going well - - Not !

Not so much hotel just hospitality boxes and rooms within the stand for matchday and our own board room there so theres no need to use the ones the council have.

[Bainsfordbairn]

2 hours ago, Shadwell Dog said:

So far we've paid circa 800k in rent to SSDL.  That would put us almost a third of the way through paying it off the 2.5m it cost. I'd like to think that once we've done that SA would do the decent thing and hand it over surely.

If your figures are accurate, then it's taken us ten years to pay for a third of the build cost in rent.  Which means it's going to be another 20 before Sandy Alexander sees a penny in profit.

I've no idea how old he is, but I'd guess somewhere in the region of 60-75. So I'd also guess that he won't live long enough to see any return on the money. Or if he does he won't be healthy or active enough to spend it. In which case a lot of the "nice little money-earner" hate posts that he sometimes gets on here are wide of the mark.

As always, the devil is in the detail. And we don't know what that detail is. 

If the stand is donated to us by SA after the rental period covers the build cost then it's a good deal for FFC, as it would basically have been an interest-free loan to fund the construction. And we're making profit from it in the interim via the South stand bar and gymn.

If the stand is gifted to us after he passes away, then it's likewise a good deal. 

It only becomes a bad deal if we're still paying rental 21 years from now in order to give his descendants an income.

Is that fair comment or have I misunderstood the figures?

 

 

[Shadwell Dog]

1 minute ago, Bainsfordbairn said:

If your figures are accurate, then it's taken us ten years to pay for a third of the build cost in rent.  Which means it's going to be another 20 before Sandy Alexander sees a penny in profit.

I've no idea how old he is, but I'd guess somewhere in the region of 60-75. So I'd also guess that he won't live long enough to see any return on the money. Or if he does he won't be healthy or active enough to spend it. In which case a lot of the "nice little money-earner" hate posts that he sometimes gets on here are wide of the mark.

As always, the devil is in the detail. And we don't know what that detail is. 

If the stand is donated to us by SA after the rental period covers the build cost then it's a good deal for FFC, as it would basically have been an interest-free loan to fund the construction. And we're making profit from it in the interim via the South stand bar and gymn.

If the stand is gifted to us after he passes away, then it's likewise a good deal. 

It only becomes a bad deal if we're still paying rental 21 years from now in order to give his descendants an income.

Is that fair comment or have I misunderstood the figures?

 

 

Sounds spot on to me mate. Just needs some clarification. Surely someone on here must know what the score is.

[HopeStreetWalker]

11 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Sounds spot on to me mate. Just needs some clarification. Surely someone on here must know what the score is.

Agree with the sentiments of the post. It's the need for clarification that is so frustrating. What would be helpful was if FFC were to lay out exactly who owns what and in what % of the Stadium facility. We know the club monitors this forum. So whoever read this -  It would improve relations with the fans if this information was made public. Over to you FFC !

[Bairn in Exile]

I don’t know all the ins and outs of the situation re: who owns what of the stadium but how does this sound:

We transfer home fans from the south stand to the north stand (which is hardly used these days anyway, surely we can house away fans in the main stand?).

We stop using the seating and facilities in the south stand (are we committed to a long term rental here or is negotiated annually etc.?) so SA either has to re-negotiate the deal or see that he is stuck with a white elephant. We will probably never need 3 stands again, never mind 4, until / when / if we are back in the Premiership.

We give up the hospitality facilities in the main stand and try to build a hospitality extension or something on to the north stand. Or even have temporary double decker Portakabin type units running the length of the east side of the ground for hospitality.

Happy to take instruction from somebody more knowledgeable than myself on this subject.

[Shadwell Dog]

20 minutes ago, Bairn in Exile said:

I don’t know all the ins and outs of the situation re: who owns what of the stadium but how does this sound:

We transfer home fans from the south stand to the north stand (which is hardly used these days anyway, surely we can house away fans in the main stand?).

We stop using the seating and facilities in the south stand (are we committed to a long term rental here or is negotiated annually etc.?) so SA either has to re-negotiate the deal or see that he is stuck with a white elephant. We will probably never need 3 stands again, never mind 4, until / when / if we are back in the Premiership.

We give up the hospitality facilities in the main stand and try to build a hospitality extension or something on to the north stand. Or even have temporary double decker Portakabin type units running the length of the east side of the ground for hospitality.

Happy to take instruction from somebody more knowledgeable than myself on this subject.

Cant see that happening having just spent 30k on kitting out the south stand. Depends on the deal with SA anyway. If we're just paying him rent till the stand is paid off then it's a decent deal for the club. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Shadwell Dog