The Falkirk FC Thread

[HopeStreetWalker]

16 minutes ago, Bantabairn said:

A couple of years back I’m sure someone posted ( or made reference to) walking away from TFS. If memory serves me there was someone saying about sharing at Broadwood. Sorry this might be a lot of sh..... but sure someone mentioned. Anyway knowing what our predecessors signed up to, wouldn’t surprise me if we’ve signed on for 100 years at TFS without being able to withdraw?

FFC are minor stakeholders in the stadium company. We can't walk away as we are still liable for the overheads of the complex whether we are there or not.

So we could go the other way and let the council buy out FFC share then rent the stadium on matchdays. Get a small office for administration somewhere in town on top of a club shop in the high street for example, and do the training at Stirling University. But suspect you are correct FFC will be well and truly stitched up and permanent tenants and an endless money pit for the council. You can bet your bottom dollar the stadium makes them money. They can charge themselves for the services and administration with whatever profit margin they like.

It's going to come to a crunch on the stadium. The set up we have is holding the club back.

[Stainrod]

Is there a nuclear option of telling the council they are welcome to continue with the stadium without us and going nomad? We really need to break this cycle. 
I think that's essentially what Coventry have done. Not saying it's a good option. 

Great opportunity to do that now when we could ground share with Cameron juniors and not have the worst ground at our “new” level !!

[MrDust]

1 hour ago, Stainrod said:

Concerns about his ability to score regularly in a full time league will ensure he gets a chance to prove himself with us ! If we go up

Clubs can be blinkered with goals a player scores, so many players have scored for fun in this league and failed to do the step up to the championship but 20+ goals will always have a championship willing to take a chance on such players.

Shankland was a failure at championship till the drop to this league with Ayr, McManus will have plenty suitors come May onwards

[AL-FFC]

Council are pretty much f**ked, as they have a massive funding black hole and as far as the FH reads they cant afford to fix the roads so in this case its a double edged sword they want money FFC or new owners prepared to offer it it helps them plug a funding blackhole or they could be cnuts about it (on track record they are liable to be cnuts)

[HopeStreetWalker]

13 minutes ago, AL-FFC said:

Council are pretty much f**ked, as they have a massive funding black hole and as far as the FH reads they cant afford to fix the roads so in this case its a double edged sword they want money FFC or new owners prepared to offer it it helps them plug a funding blackhole or they could be cnuts about it (on track record they are liable to be cnuts)

New owners brass neck it then. One off casher upfront - stadium - car park surrounding land. One off deal for 24hours take or leave it. 100k less every week you delay. Nothing to lose !

[knee jerk reaction]

I think I've asked on here before without getting a clear answer, but we owned brockville, we went with the council for the astroturf behind brockville and this meant the council owned 2/7th of everything, I'm assuming Morrison's paid for brockville so how did we get from that position to where we are now? Not even the world's biggest idiot would sign anything that just completely gave away so much for no gain. 

[Gaz]

1 minute ago, knee jerk reaction said:

I think I've asked on here before without getting a clear answer, but we owned brockville, we went with the council for the astroturf behind brockville and this meant the council owned 2/7th of everything, I'm assuming Morrison's paid for brockville so how did we get from that position to where we are now? Not even the world's biggest idiot would sign anything that just completely gave away so much for no gain. 

Amongst other things, we built a f***ing massive white elephant of a main stand.

[knee jerk reaction]

4 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Amongst other things, we built a f***ing massive white elephant of a main stand.

Still doesn't explain why the stadium deal is apparently so bad though?

[AL-FFC]

6 minutes ago, knee jerk reaction said:

I think I've asked on here before without getting a clear answer, but we owned brockville, we went with the council for the astroturf behind brockville and this meant the council owned 2/7th of everything, I'm assuming Morrison's paid for brockville so how did we get from that position to where we are now? Not even the world's biggest idiot would sign anything that just completely gave away so much for no gain. 

You are familiar on our boards track record this can be added to the list.

Pretty sure the car park (mono blocking) was paid for by a grant or something like that from the tourist board or govt and the electric points have been funded by the Scottish govt as Falkirk Council have the lowest electric charging points anywhere in Scotland even the Highlands and Islands have more charging points (this being a dig at the incompetence of Falkirk Council)blind leading the blind with FFC board and Falkirk Council

[BountyBairn]

7 hours ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

It's an estimate but when you add on. Rent of stadium, services- gas -electric water etc, staff, liability insurance, policing, stewards and on and on. Most dictated by the Stadium Company it all bites into the pound you spend getting in.

Am coming round to the thought. If we want to progress outright ownership of the stadium has to come first.

This is the only thought that’s accurate. 

The club loose out on 2 areas, paying rent for the internal space used in the main stand. Opportunity costs of not having the other space as an income generating asset. most of the things you mention are costs we would have to pay regardless of our odd setup at Westfield. Or are you suggesting that we wouldn’t need stewards, police, insurance gas water and leckie if we had our own place? 

[knee jerk reaction]

9 minutes ago, AL-FFC said:

You are familiar on our boards track record this can be added to the list.

Pretty sure the car park (mono blocking) was paid for by a grant or something like that from the tourist board or govt and the electric points have been funded by the Scottish govt as Falkirk Council have the lowest electric charging points anywhere in Scotland even the Highlands and Islands have more charging points (this being a dig at the incompetence of Falkirk Council)blind leading the blind with FFC board and Falkirk Council

It's easy to have a go at the board but guys like Martin Ritchie are not stupid, and as a board they have made so huge mistakes but why would anyone let the council with a small share in brockville just take a majority share in the new stadium? If there was grants etc for the car park and it wasn't council money then that makes even less sense to hand over control to them. 

[HopeStreetWalker]

19 minutes ago, BountyBairn said:

This is the only thought that’s accurate. 

The club loose out on 2 areas, paying rent for the internal space used in the main stand. Opportunity costs of not having the other space as an income generating asset. most of the things you mention are costs we would have to pay regardless of our odd setup at Westfield. Or are you suggesting that we wouldn’t need stewards, police, insurance gas water and leckie if we had our own place? 

Not at all. These people are needed. But they are employed by the Community Stadium Company that operate and manage the facility. They have a free hand on how much they charge and you can be sure it gives them a cracking profit. If it was our own place they would be inhouse employees not people that have a profit margin put on their work.

[HopeStreetWalker]

45 minutes ago, knee jerk reaction said:

I think I've asked on here before without getting a clear answer, but we owned brockville, we went with the council for the astroturf behind brockville and this meant the council owned 2/7th of everything, I'm assuming Morrison's paid for brockville so how did we get from that position to where we are now? Not even the world's biggest idiot would sign anything that just completely gave away so much for no gain. 

The council owned the land the stadium was built on. They sold the land to the Community Stadium Company at the value if a Hotel was to be built in the future. therefore hefty price per sq metre. In other words they sold land to themselves, recycling the cash and got the majority shareholding on the stadium. Once the ink was dry the Blast Zone was made public.

[BountyBairn]

10 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

Not at all. These people are needed. But they are employed by the Community Stadium Company that operate and manage the facility. They have a free hand on how much they charge and you can be sure it gives them a cracking profit. If it was our own place they would be inhouse employees not people that have a profit margin put on their work.

Absolute pish. Security, police etc are engaged by the club. 
Try finding stuff out...your core issue is sound but the reasons are a bit EdiBairn sounding.

[TxRover]

3 hours ago, Bairn Necessities said:

Is there a nuclear option of telling the council they are welcome to continue with the stadium without us and going nomad? We really need to break this cycle. 

I think that's essentially what Coventry have done. Not saying it's a good option. 

Don’t forget the South Stand. FFC is obligated for a number of years to pay an escalating fee for it. Length is unclear, but based upon cost as constructed and estimated fees paid, that’s at least a £1.2m debt.

[HopeStreetWalker]

2 minutes ago, BountyBairn said:

Absolute pish. Security, police etc are engaged by the club. 
Try finding stuff out...your core issue is sound but the reasons are a bit EdiBairn sounding.

Not so sure on that. The Community Stadium Company operate and manage the facility. Suspect these staff are employed by them and contracted to FFC for the game. For example the police operate inside and outside the ground. Therefore it is reasonable that they are engaged by the Stadium Company. After all they own the car park and surrounding area and  the stadium. They are therefore free to put a mark up on their services.

One of these issues that requires clarification at the next AGM. You could well be right but there is no reason to compare me to EdiBairn LOL !

 

[Shadwell Dog]

16 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

The council owned the land the stadium was built on. They sold the land to the Community Stadium Company at the value if a Hotel was to be built in the future. therefore hefty price per sq metre. In other words they sold land to themselves, recycling the cash and got the majority shareholding on the stadium. Once the ink was dry the Blast Zone was made public.

We also had to use some of the cash from brockville to pay of our debts  including the 1.5 million loan to eddie healy or whatever his name was. That meant we were never going to have a majority stake in the new place

[HopeStreetWalker]

1 minute ago, Shadwell Dog said:

We also had to use some of the cash from brockville to pay of our debts  including the 1.5 million loan to eddie healy or whatever his name was. That meant we were never going to have a majority stake in the new place

Fair point. But the slight of hand by the council selling an unused bit of land to themselves increased there share in the facility with minimum cost. The council knew full well about the blast zone. The land price would have been a fraction of what we paid if we had known. The timing of the disclosure after the deal was signed and there was an inkling of a Hotel did not look right.

We can agree FFC have been well and truly screwed regarding the stadium.

[Harry Kinnear]

It must be absolute shite following a well run club that does everything right and never makes an arse of things.

[AL-FFC]

1 hour ago, knee jerk reaction said:

It's easy to have a go at the board but guys like Martin Ritchie are not stupid, and as a board they have made so huge mistakes but why would anyone let the council with a small share in brockville just take a majority share in the new stadium? If there was grants etc for the car park and it wasn't council money then that makes even less sense to hand over control to them. 

The only thing that makes sense out of it is if the stadium company or council whatever it is is responsible for the upkeep then the likes of the storm damage to the main stand etc being repaired its on them, i cant imagine that would be cheap to replace any of it giving the fact it would be high access etc.