The Falkirk FC Thread

[BMbairn]

The FV thing did seem to be where it went downhill and FFC lost control of development and when we could sell. It never felt right almost as if we were subsidising other teams

[Falkirk_Bairn_1983]

I have no idea if getting rid of the academy is a good thing or not but from a personal point of view I do like seeing a player we have developed making their debut and getting a chance in the first team. 

Did we have any sort of academy all those years ago when Lee Miller and Mark Kerr came into the team?

[Guest]

Was anything said about the situation with McKinnon and Morton?

Aye, Morton complained to Spfl. Spfl looked at it and thought there could be a case to answer so have set a date to have a detailed meeting on it

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

 

Aye, Morton complained to Spfl. Spfl looked at it and thought there could be a case to answer so have set a date to have a detailed meeting on it

 

So they have had the sweetie man’s version of events. Excellent. That’s their case well and truly screwed then if it differs one inch from his public utterances (which it will have to in order to be any kind of case at all). Oh well, little branch Ton will have to find another reason to get out of bed in the morning. Maybe he could do a few scripts for CSI Kilmalcolm.

[Hank von Hell]

2 hours ago, CC52 FFC said:

 

In terms of us being under the “elite” umbrella we would have to have had (or built) a indoor Astro pitch. As it was obvious we weren’t going to achieve the elite status the board met with others such as Michael McArdle and said it would be hard to attract the high end kids they previously had because them and their parents would want to be at an elite club. Which then makes the academy unsustainable. The board said in terms of our academy we had always been operating at an elite level anyway and were not prepared to operate at a lower level but would have and did apply for the second level.

 

Thanks for the good clarification. 

Not sure about their comment on "parents would want to be at an elite club" - it's just not as simple as that. There are a helluva lot of kids trying to make it and they can;' all go to the small group of elite clubs. Geography comes into it as well , plus the fact that kids mature at different ages - the small skinny kid at 14 could become a potential superstar by 16. It's just too convenient for them to say it was "unsustainable" , I wonder exactly what research they did on this, or even thought about trialing it - it seems they just immediately went for shutdown.

Slightly confused by the last sentence - " they were not prepared to operate at a lower level but would have and did apply for the second level".  That reads as very contradictory., or is it just me?

 

[Hank von Hell]

1 hour ago, BMbairn said:

It hasnt produced any players for a few years though. Youth football is important but a massive academy for a first division club is too expensive.

Tony Gallacher was sold for 200k in January 2018. 

We won't see that kind of money again. Thanks Margaret. 

[Hank von Hell]

1 hour ago, Rob - FFC said:

First post but wanted to respond on the academy situation. Margaret stated that after speaking with Mick several players had already left, after we never got elite status, from the most promising age group in the academy. Totally inaccurate as only 1 player left and that was before elite status was known about. Also it was said that we would not be able to attract players as we didn’t have elite status. Prior to project brave our status was less than other clubs such as Rangers and Celtic and we still attracted players who chose Falkirk over the old firm as they could see a more realistic pathway. We only had silver status under the old banding so not sure why attracting players would change and they have no facts to back up that this would happen. On the costs of the academy then if you look at a similar status academy to Falkirk who publish year end accounts then you can see the net deficit of running their academy is £50k and not what the club have been reporting. 

Epic first post Rob-FFC !! Welcome. At last someone else (as well as BPM ) to shoot holes in Margaret's smoke & mirrors. 

We do not need elite status as we are far from an elite club , but we could still bring through our own young players - the lifeblood of small to medium clubs since forever.

This Project Brave was a very convenient reason for them to fall over themselves in the rush to shut the academy .

Best interests my ass. 

[Hank von Hell]

1 hour ago, Back Post Misses said:

Do not forget too that without the player sales you would either be choked out with soft loans or bust
 

 

This.

[Ryan-FFC]

Thought she was rather patronising TBH. Calling the fans keyboard warriors early on didn’t help

Got the same impression, felt they got let off pretty easily for the most part.

[Guest]

In terms of us being under the “elite” umbrella we would have to have had (or built) a indoor Astro pitch. As it was obvious we weren’t going to achieve the elite status the board met with others such as Michael McArdle and said it would be hard to attract the high end kids they previously had because them and their parents would want to be at an elite club. Which then makes the academy unsustainable. The board said in terms of our academy we had always been operating at an elite level anyway and were not prepared to operate at a lower level but would have and did apply for the second level.

I think the Mick McArdle point (as someone else has pointed out) has been twisted. The people at the academy who worked there in coaching and most importantly the scouting side of things acknowledged it would have been competitive but it was always this. They expected to lose one or two but not many and to counter that others would come in.

Their view is you get a churn anyway and sometimes kids like players flourish at different places and also develop later. You only need look at three of our best McGrandles, Wallace and Fulton they all dropped in at 14 and 15 to us from two clubs who are now at the elite level.

An excuse for a bad decision for me

[ANEWHOPE]

I think the Mick McArdle point (as someone else has pointed out) has been twisted. The people at the academy who worked there in coaching and most importantly the scouting side of things acknowledged it would have been competitive but it was always this. They expected to lose one or two but not many and to counter that others would come in.

Their view is you get a churn anyway and sometimes kids like players flourish at different places and also develop later. You only need look at three of our best McGrandles, Wallace and Fulton they all dropped in at 14 and 15 to us from two clubs who are now at the elite level.

An excuse for a bad decision for me

Several of the coaches also felt in the last few years of the Academy the pathway to the first team was being hampered by a manager not as willing as previous incumbents to play some of the Academy players.

Some may argue that maybe the talent wasn’t there but I always felt meaningful game time would have benefited several of them. However I can see a balance needed to be struck given we in the midst of a promotion push.

But players like Alston, Kingsley and McGrandles all struggled at first, they all looked out of place and only a bit of faith, patience and games changed that.

[ka202]

Several of the coaches also felt in the last few years of the Academy the pathway to the first team was being hampered by a manager not as willing as previous incumbents to play some of the Academy players.

Some may argue that maybe the talent wasn’t there but I always felt meaningful game time would have benefited several of them. However I can see a balance needed to be struck given we in the midst of a promotion push.

But players like Alston, Kingsley and McGrandles all struggled at first, they all looked out of place and only a bit of faith, patience and games changed that.

I remember speaking to a former Falkirk player who was at Falkirk at the time of Alston, Kingsley, Fulton, Mcgrandles and Sibbald.

He told me Steven Presley was the best man manager he’d ever worked with in his life, maybe that had something to do with it.

[Harry Kinnear]

Remember something else Margaret Lang said last night. St Johnstone make £300k alone a year from the sale of teas at funeral wakes at McDiarmid park.

 

It's clear that if there was any way we could take over control of the entire stadium it would be massive for the progression of the club.

 

We all need to get our Euro millions tickets.

 

 

[BMbairn]

2 hours ago, ANEWHOPE said:

 

Several of the coaches also felt in the last few years of the Academy the pathway to the first team was being hampered by a manager not as willing as previous incumbents to play some of the Academy players.

Some may argue that maybe the talent wasn’t there but I always felt meaningful game time would have benefited several of them. However I can see a balance needed to be struck given we in the midst of a promotion push.

But players like Alston, Kingsley and McGrandles all struggled at first, they all looked out of place and only a bit of faith, patience and games changed that.
 

 

I believe all of you with more knowledge of the academy system than me and I don't believe everything the board say. This is the point I was getting at, the first team were not benefitting in the way they were before and if that was the managers fault then it's clearly disappointing we let talent slip through the system to other clubs willing to play them

[Nkomo-A-Gogo]

11 hours ago, Gaz said:

I went along to the forum at the stadium a few years ago, where we listened for an hour to how the club was skint but still wanted to build a fourth stand. Then some smug twat from the Trust spent about ten minutes telling us to put up or shut up, or we wouldn't have a club to support.

Realised after that that these things are a waste of time.

Keyboard warrior found.

[TheScarf]

St Johnstone have it sorted with McDiarmid.  An unbelievable cash cow for them.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

11 hours ago, Hank von Hell said:

I'm a Keyboard Warrior of Genghis Khan

"Burnin', lootin', rapin' and no shots on target"

[Believe The Hype]

3 hours ago, ANEWHOPE said:

 

Several of the coaches also felt in the last few years of the Academy the pathway to the first team was being hampered by a manager not as willing as previous incumbents to play some of the Academy players.

Some may argue that maybe the talent wasn’t there but I always felt meaningful game time would have benefited several of them. However I can see a balance needed to be struck given we in the midst of a promotion push.

But players like Alston, Kingsley and McGrandles all struggled at first, they all looked out of place and only a bit of faith, patience and games changed that.
 

 

Let's be honest here, it wasnt faith or patience, we had no other option but to play the kids. It wasn't a master stroke of genius football management and foresight. So given the option should we take the hit on the product on the park until kids are up to speed in the hope that some of them might turn out to be decent a season down the line, or if you have money, sign players that would have the club competing straight away. It's a no brainer for me, and these kids and academy should only be a viable option once we start competing again. 

[Shodwall cat]

19 hours ago, EdiBairn said:

At the end of the day, there is a not insubstantial six figure cost to running an academy, which we funded for 8 seasons, during which time we failed to get out of this league.

I couldn't care less about local kids getting to play for the club they support. We're not a youth club- whether the cost is £100k or £500k, I'd much rather see it invested in the playing squad so that the club can do as well as possible. 

Just because Hartley and Mitch signed a lot of rubbish, doesn't mean that increasing the first team budget wasn't right. 

We didnt get out the league because we had cretins as managers who signed shit players. Feck all to do with the academy. St Mirren managed to get promoted fine with an academy last season.

[Stuperman01]

12 hours ago, Bairn Necessities said:

Did anyone ask Lang why she invited emails after her statement then didn't answer them?

She did say she was inundated with e mails.