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4 hours ago, JustLuvinThepian said:

Rule 11.2.2 of the SFA Disciplinary code:

During a suspension, a player or member of Team Staff is excluded from the Playing Zone at any match played under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA until the expiry of the suspension. The “Playing Zone” is the area used by players and Team Staff at a match and shall extend to both teams’ dressing rooms, the match officials’ dressing rooms, the players’ tunnel to the pitch, any corridors leading to and/or connecting the said rooms and the players’ tunnel to the pitch, the technical areas and substitutes’ benches, the track, the playing surface and any area within 2 metres of any part of the touch line or goal line of the playing surface. The exclusion shall apply from 75 minutes prior to the scheduled time of kick-off of a match until 15 minutes following the referee having signalled the end of the match. For the avoidance of doubt, the exclusion continues to apply during extra time and/or kicks from the penalty mark when required in any match

Looks like John Potter could be up in front of the SFA for breaching his touchline ban on Saturday. What that might mean is up for debate.  Could we be awarded the game 3-0 as he was, on more than one occassion, giving orders to Tidser when he called him over for instructions.  

3 hours ago, bairn88 said:

A complete hypothetical, one for the boffins out there.

Say we’d beaten Kelty 0-5 on Saturday. Potter found to have breached that rule and punishment would be forfeit of match. Would the result be turned into a 0-3, effectively punishing us? There must be examples of this type of thing previously. 

 

3 hours ago, Artemis said:

Not a boffin but my guess is they would probably give them a points deduction instead. I think teams have been deducted points where they fielded an ineligible player in a game that they lost, for example. 
 

Jesus wept. 😂

Never in the history of Scottish football has any club had a result changed one iota by a manager breaching a touchline ban. If he did he'll get a fine and have to serve it again.

What did he do anyway? I take it he wasn't technically standing on the terrace? The Playing Zone doesn't extend onto the public areas no matter how close to the pitch. Managers under ban can (and regularly do) stand anywhere that the public do if it's close. Dick Campbell for instance has sat in a seat in the stand literally right next to the dugout at Arbroath. That's absolutely fine.

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5 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

Jesus wept. 😂

Never in the history of Scottish football has any club had a result changed one iota by a manager breaching a touchline ban. If he did he'll get a fine and have to serve it again.

What did he do anyway? I take it he wasn't technically standing on the terrace? The Playing Zone doesn't extend onto the public areas no matter how close to the pitch. Managers under ban can (and regularly do) stand anywhere that the public do if it's close. Dick Campbell for instance has sat in a seat in the stand literally right next to the dugout at Arbroath. That's absolutely fine.

We won the game mate, why would we want the result changed?

As noted in the post, a complete hypothetical. Similarly eg if an ineligible player was played in a league game, and changing the result to a 0-3 would actually harm the team who won, say, 5-0, what would the ruling be. No need to be upset. 

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24 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

Jesus wept. 😂

Never in the history of Scottish football has any club had a result changed one iota by a manager breaching a touchline ban. If he did he'll get a fine and have to serve it again.

What did he do anyway? I take it he wasn't technically standing on the terrace? The Playing Zone doesn't extend onto the public areas no matter how close to the pitch. Managers under ban can (and regularly do) stand anywhere that the public do if it's close. Dick Campbell for instance has sat in a seat in the stand literally right next to the dugout at Arbroath. That's absolutely fine.

 

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10 hours ago, Trump said:

Ultimately our closing of the academy, the reason for it, and what we did next were completely different to Brentford. We were quoted of using ‘the Brentford model’ but it couldn’t be further from that. Whilst the Bees used pioneering data to find players, we used an agent called Richard Mitchell who chucked any old English player at us. At Scottish second tier level I’m not sure of how much data like Brentford’s would help attract players from further afield, who knows.

Brentford were investing a lot of cash in their academy only for their players to get picked off at a youngish age for a relatively short sum of cash. Can’t say this was the case with us, more that we were having to sell a player every season to balance the books of it, which wasn’t sustainable. The idea of having more money to put towards the first team was a wise one, what we did with it was a shambles.

What was also a shambles was how it was communicated to players and their families, and then when offered external funding to keep it going, it was rejected by the club. 
 

Falkirk and Brentford are labelled together when it comes to closing their academies but really the two stories are very different and the clubs have said opposite effects since doing so.

 

Very well put! 

The B team aspect of Brentford was a minor part of the success story, 

It wasn't the case the the youth team was ditched and with it, all the success came! 

 

What Brentford, and Brighton have is access to this wild statistical database, they also had a decent amount of cash invested to get the process started of buying players and selling them on. If it was simple to replicate every team would be doing it. 

 

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53 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

Jesus wept. 😂

Never in the history of Scottish football has any club had a result changed one iota by a manager breaching a touchline ban. If he did he'll get a fine and have to serve it again.

What did he do anyway? I take it he wasn't technically standing on the terrace? The Playing Zone doesn't extend onto the public areas no matter how close to the pitch. Managers under ban can (and regularly do) stand anywhere that the public do if it's close. Dick Campbell for instance has sat in a seat in the stand literally right next to the dugout at Arbroath. That's absolutely fine.

He was standing in an area to the side and rear of the dugout which, as far as I know, wasn't open to fans, certainly not away fans anyway. There were no Kelty fans in that area at any point during the game. I would have thought that a main purpose of such a ban would be to stop the manager from having any direct contact with his players yet Potter was able to issue instructions to numerous players, including substitutes as they took to the field and was also able to summon his captain to the touchline to issue instructions to him. All of this was done within the two metres outlined in the rule.

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47 minutes ago, ShaggerG said:

He was standing in an area to the side and rear of the dugout which, as far as I know, wasn't open to fans, certainly not away fans anyway. There were no Kelty fans in that area at any point during the game. I would have thought that a main purpose of such a ban would be to stop the manager from having any direct contact with his players yet Potter was able to issue instructions to numerous players, including substitutes as they took to the field and was also able to summon his captain to the touchline to issue instructions to him. All of this was done within the two metres outlined in the rule.

I've only been to Kelty once but from memory its a strange ground with all sorts of areas you can wander around and fans were able to basically stand at the dressing room door when we were there and players walk to and from the pitch across the terrace. It may potentially be more restrictive when Falkirk are there with a bigger support. Its probably relatively 'grey' whether the area he was in was open to public or not. Chances are if he's made a show of not actually being IN the dugout nobody will care much. Pretty certain managers routinely breach that rule when banned by being in dressing rooms at half time / before game. Nobody can actually police that.

The 2m thing is utterly irrelevant if its in a public section of terrace / stand. Like I said earlier, Dick Campbell was legitimately able to sit right next to the dugout at Arbroath when banned.

 

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3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 Pretty certain managers routinely breach that rule when banned by being in dressing rooms at half time / before game. Nobody can actually police that.

 

 

I have thought this is the far more important part of the ruling,  and it shouldn't be that difficult to enforce.  Access to dressing rooms is carefully controlled and it shouldn't be too difficult for a one of the officials or ref observer etc to make sure there isn't a banned manager in there.  Matches with a ref observer could easily require the manager to be in the stand during the required times.     Then again its treated with players that its not the refs job to make sure they are eligible to play and that could be applied to managers as well.

I guess tho that given these bans are normally for touchline behaviour or media comments then nobody is actually that bothered about it being a sporting punishment as such and more of a go sit/stand on the naughty step,  so long as there seems a recognition from the manager they have been punished that seems enough.

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8 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I've only been to Kelty once but from memory its a strange ground with all sorts of areas you can wander around and fans were able to basically stand at the dressing room door when we were there and players walk to and from the pitch across the terrace. It may potentially be more restrictive when Falkirk are there with a bigger support. Its probably relatively 'grey' whether the area he was in was open to public or not.

I'm not being a smartass but it's not even remotely grey. 

The area around the dugout is cordoned off, presumably to keep the fans from bothering the managers. There's a cabin there which appears to be home to the announcer and I noticed that the Match Safety Officer stood there for much of the game. The same area also gives access to the East TV scaffold where FFCTV and the Falkirk video analysis guys were. 

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19 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I've only been to Kelty once but from memory its a strange ground with all sorts of areas you can wander around and fans were able to basically stand at the dressing room door when we were there and players walk to and from the pitch across the terrace. It may potentially be more restrictive when Falkirk are there with a bigger support. Its probably relatively 'grey' whether the area he was in was open to public or not. Chances are if he's made a show of not actually being IN the dugout nobody will care much. Pretty certain managers routinely breach that rule when banned by being in dressing rooms at half time / before game. Nobody can actually police that.

The 2m thing is utterly irrelevant if its in a public section of terrace / stand. Like I said earlier, Dick Campbell was legitimately able to sit right next to the dugout at Arbroath when banned.

 

It wasn't public.  The security guard refused access to the lady running the pie stall when she was trying to take the takings into the clubhouse.  Nobody was geting into that area.  TThe guy gave me a bloody headache with his constant shouting at the players. 

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Latest episode of the Falkirk Daft podcast - Episode 29…Limbs! - is out NOW. Where we; 

🔵 Review the HUGE win over Kelty Hearts 
⚪️ Preview Alloa Ath (A) on Tues 🐝
🔵 Discuss the latest news from The Bairnabau 🏟️
⚪️ How to WIN 2 x Free tickets to Falkirk Football Club Speakers Night on 3rd March 
🔵 And we preview the BIG Scottish Cup tie in the company of @darvelfc manager @Mickkennedy1904 🏆

📱 Apple: apple.co/3PX3l02
🎧 Spotify: spoti.fi/3PCiXGJ
🖥️ Youtube: bit.ly/3b4R4YH

Thank you to this weeks sponsor - Falkirk Supporters Society 👏🏻

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On 06/02/2023 at 09:37, Grant228 said:

All to do with the change in stature of the club. 

 

The academy was closed because being a League 1/Championship side in London meant the top talents would inevitably be picked off. Now they're a Premiership side, with the funding that brings it makes sense to have an academy. 

Brentford have been forced to re-open their academy due to a rule change in the EPL where all clubs must have a ca00tegory 3 academy by the start of season 24-25.  

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