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The Falkirk FC Thread


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22 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Now I'm not saying that the likes of Livingston and St Johnstone aren't well run, however they are where they are because they've appointed good football managers. Under our previous chairman (Ross McCarthur) we were run superbly as a buisness, but if you appoint Peter Grant and John Hughes and persist with Stevie Crawford you're only heading in one direction. 

Livingston are in the Premier because they have David Martindale. St Johnstone are financially in a great position, and on the pitch they've had success which fans of similar sized clubs can only dream off. However you go on their thread and they aren't very enamoured with Stevie Brown. 

You make a fair point, though finding a good, experienced manager in League 1 is difficult. The best you can often hope for is taking on a newbie and hoping they are good enough to get you up, or an experienced guy looking for a fair pay day.

On John Hughes, we got him at the right time in his managerial career. He was progressive and generally good in his early years. He peaked with us and started to go downhill in his final season. The Yogi of today isn't the same calibre of the one from the 2000s.

Falkirk's history of managerial appointments in the last 15 years is indeed a big part of why we are here. But it isn't the only thing. In the 2000s we had an academy that was brilliant. Not only did it produce players who did well for us and then moved on, but it lent us a reputation as a club that looked after youngsters. It made getting you up and coming players on loan easier. Binning the academy was a shocking act of self harm by the club.

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29 minutes ago, Bairney The Dinosaur said:

This has been scoffed at a bit and initially I did the same because a collective Falkirk Supporters Society just makes complete sense to me. However, see when I've been trying to convince folk to sign up this exact argument that comes back just about everytime. The idea of of a collective voice, a union and being part of something bigger than ourselves just doesn't appeal to everyone. It's a shame, a bit embarrassing I think, but this is probably one of the biggest barriers for FSS to address - what can we give back?

Not convinced that changing the structure of FSS to allow members to hold the shares in their own name is the right way to go. Anyone can do that as an individual anyway. Seems @Van_damage is suggesting that benefits would subject donations to VAT charges, be interesting to hear a bit more about this. I'm assuming it refers things like free gifts, club shop discount etc. If FSS was to offer membership only events (like the McGlynn Q&A) is this considered a benefit? The FSS prize draw doesn't impact on VAT charges? May be some work around here.

I don’t think the structure of the FSS should be changed but I do think there should be a sharesave scheme that allows individuals to buy shares in their own name.

I appreciate that this goes against the FSS ‘block vote’ idea, but I think it’s time to put pragmatism over ideology. I think getting something more tangible for your cash would persuade more to sign up.

In any event, surely having a larger shareholding from fans is no bad thing regardless of how these shares are held? Yes, these individuals would need to be persuaded to vote for the FSS ‘line’ but that is no bad thing in my view.

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4 minutes ago, PedroMoutinho said:

I don’t think the structure of the FSS should be changed but I do think there should be a sharesave scheme that allows individuals to buy shares in their own name.

I appreciate that this goes against the FSS ‘block vote’ idea, but I think it’s time to put pragmatism over ideology. I think getting something more tangible for your cash would persuade more to sign up.

In any event, surely having a larger shareholding from fans is no bad thing regardless of how these shares are held? Yes, these individuals would need to be persuaded to vote for the FSS ‘line’ but that is no bad thing in my view.

Not sure what's more tangible than the continuation of the club we support?

For me, the sharesave premise is based on the ability at some future date, to recoup what you've paid in.i

That is not what the ethos of FSS is as I understand it. 

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24 minutes ago, Bairney The Dinosaur said:

This has been scoffed at a bit and initially I did the same because a collective Falkirk Supporters Society just makes complete sense to me. However, see when I've been trying to convince folk to sign up this exact argument that comes back just about everytime. The idea of of a collective voice, a union and being part of something bigger than ourselves just doesn't appeal to everyone. It's a shame, a bit embarrassing I think, but this is probably one of the biggest barriers for FSS to address - what can we give back?

Not convinced that changing the structure of FSS to allow members to hold the shares in their own name is the right way to go. Anyone can do that as an individual anyway. Seems @Van_damage is suggesting that benefits would subject donations to VAT charges, be interesting to hear a bit more about this. I'm assuming it refers things like free gifts, club shop discount etc. If FSS was to offer membership only events (like the McGlynn Q&A) is this considered a benefit? The FSS prize draw doesn't impact on VAT charges? May be some work around here.

There definitely will be work arounds but the worry is if there was an audit on the accounts a retrospective action taken as a result of contributions being deemed subject to VAT. I know FoH are very weary about that. 

There can be more to add but as mentioned other organisations offer not much more in return and those that do haven’t really bucked the trend of much more membership than 50% of ST sales.

The problem is for anyone who wants value for money then it will be hard to offer them anything to convince them otherwise that won’t come at a cost so you have to weigh that up the and the time to service these benefits. The current volunteers won’t always be on the committee too and if you can’t get someone else that is willing to do the work and uphold these benefits what happens then? There’s a lot to consider as once you add benefits you can’t really take them away and if you don’t get the uptake expected then you still have to offer them to the 600+ members at present. 

As I said though it would be good to know anyone that hasn’t signed up for those reasons though what they would like in return. If you have any friends who’d be willing to discuss this with me then please put them in touch as doing a bit of market research too and that information would be just as valuable. 

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4 hours ago, Van_damage said:

As for what you get in return then as LatapyBairn pointed out, the FSS is more like a Union of fans. You pay to have a voice with the collective shareholding and board representation that comes with it. It’s strength in unity to question the hierarchy should there be something of concern to the membership. 

Excellent summary. Personally i think the above is an area where the perceived cosy relationship between FSS and the Patrons could create an issue. 

Until recently, we had a situation where the entire board (including the FSS reps) was comprised of patrons. In my view, that ‘dual-hatting’ could be problematic if a situation arose where the FSS should question the hierarchy in the interests of the wider fanbase. Clearly there could be very different interests and concerns between those investing £10k plus v £10 a month.

An example would be when an FSS board resigned and the FSS did not want to provide further details out of “respect” to the board and patrons. If one of the FSS’s objectives is to question the hierarchy, it should not necessarily be ‘respectful’ to the board Imo. However, I can see the difficulty if you have a close relationship with the organisation that makes up the whole board.

Purely my thoughts- I know others will disagree.

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13 minutes ago, Blame Me said:

For me, the sharesave premise is based on the ability at some future date, to recoup what you've paid in.i

That is not what the ethos of FSS is as I understand it. 

Not sure how you’ve reached that conclusion. I own shares in the club and see that purely as an opportunity to own a tiny part of the club I support and attend AGMs and vote in my own name etc.

I have no desire or intention to recoup what I’ve paid in, and I’d assume most other small shareholders will feel similar.

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It was interesting listening to one of the key players in FoH. He is a tremendous public speaker, and of course, pulls on the heart strings to great effect. He said that everyone who is a member should look at their bank statement and feel immense pride in seeing the line item where they make their payment to FoH……an organisation they are part of which in turn, was critical in saving the club they love.

Done by other clubs, but one of the things that has gone down very well with the Hearts support is having member’s names sewn into the fabric of the Hearts strips. It’s there, it’s tangible, it’s not overly expensive to do……..and guess what? Shirt sales increased on the back of it.

Cant say I know the details of how it is done, but it has worked for them, and the increase in shirt sales has been an incidental benefit.

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30 minutes ago, PedroMoutinho said:

Excellent summary. Personally i think the above is an area where the perceived cosy relationship between FSS and the Patrons could create an issue. 

Until recently, we had a situation where the entire board (including the FSS reps) was comprised of patrons. In my view, that ‘dual-hatting’ could be problematic if a situation arose where the FSS should question the hierarchy in the interests of the wider fanbase. Clearly there could be very different interests and concerns between those investing £10k plus v £10 a month.

An example would be when an FSS board resigned and the FSS did not want to provide further details out of “respect” to the board and patrons. If one of the FSS’s objectives is to question the hierarchy, it should not necessarily be ‘respectful’ to the board Imo. However, I can see the difficulty if you have a close relationship with the organisation that makes up the whole board.

Purely my thoughts- I know others will disagree.

Noone other than members of the Patrons group have been willing to stand for the Fan Director positions.
 

In my personal view n the long term I would like someone with a different background to stand ( this is absolutely not a criticism of the current fan directors who are working hard behind the scenes) but despite actively asking such people none was willing to stand for the positions. 
 

You can’t change things if no one is willing to take on the work. And our current directors are doing well. 

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8 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

It isn’t going to work then. FFS Morton have 1000. How can a St.Mirren and Motherwell make this work and we can’t ? Motherwell have about 3500 members I believe. 
 

If you go back a few years to the BTB initiative that didn't come to fruition, apart from prospective Patrons, some 800 or so others had intimated an interest to pledge within an instant. At that time i circulated "The Appeal" from BTB to many friends / work mates in my address book, and i know a Bolton Fan, West Ham Fan, and Leeds Fan ( All work mates ) and two relations who never attend games but see Falkirk as their football team that were prepared to " Sign Up" 

I think the BTB call at the time had more bite to it, than the current FSS

I believe it is from people not 100% into the club that an increase in numbers could come from. Fans family members. Friends elsewhere in UK and abroad who look out for Falkirk's result.

Look at the numbers locally who give a monthly donation to Strathcarron, that probably have little or no association with the Charity. They do it as they see it as a local organisation worth supporting financially on a small scale. 

 

 

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Hoping to start a bit of a distraction from all the chat going on here.

 

I'm personally quite worried about the next month or so as I can't see us beating Alloa 3 times in such a small amount of time. Especially considering it's a Brian Rice side. Really need another striker in for a better chance at winning all 3 I think. Obviously very hypothetical, but if offered, would people be happy with losing in the cup but taking 6 points from them in the league?

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2 minutes ago, SouthStander1876 said:

Hoping to start a bit of a distraction from all the chat going on here.

 

I'm personally quite worried about the next month or so as I can't see us beating Alloa 3 times in such a small amount of time. Especially considering it's a Brian Rice side. Really need another striker in for a better chance at winning all 3 I think. Obviously very hypothetical, but if offered, would people be happy with losing in the cup but taking 6 points from them in the league?

Yes

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i am a season ticket holder and i pay £20 a month to FSS. I am a big fan of people ownership and think it is going slowly but well. I like many others donate this money to the club i love but trust others to use it wisely which i feel is happening at present. People like me dont want to OWN the club but merely want to see us winning games of football which for the time being is generally happening

Edited by Bigbrbairn
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14 minutes ago, Long Suffering Bairn said:

I hope we sign someone today so we can temporarily talk about football.

If you listen to McGlynns post match interview on Saturday from about the five minute mark, he goes into detail with the issues they're having. Reading between the lines of what he said, I got the impression that signings are more likely to happen towards the end of the window rather than the middle. 

Not that it stops folk tweeting the club every day asking for signings, as if that will make a difference. 🙈

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16 minutes ago, Duncan Freemason said:

There’s a match thread for the Alloa game over in the Cups forum.

I realise funding is an important issue.   I have no money so can't contribute to the club.  I can't even afford to go to games anymore and that is not likely to change.  My priorities at the moment is keeping warm and buying food.   I am reduced to "watching" our games on BBC live text.  I fully accept this is no-one's fault other than mine, but I find it depressing seeing people talk about large sums of money while I am sitting here with no heating until 6pm.

I do hope we sign someone today, take my find of it for a little while.  Just ignore me, I guess I am feeling sorry for myself today.

Edited by Long Suffering Bairn
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1 hour ago, Back Post Misses said:

Apathy ach someone else will sort, think they paying enough already, can’t afford, don’t believe in it, want my old mates back on the board ……

variety of reasons 

Family and personal finances are the main contributors to the take-up

Rightly so these are a priority in particular with people coming off the Electricity and Gas fixed deals and finding that outlay doubling and more throw into that job insecurity with the loss of employment protections caution is understandable. 

The take-up so far should not be looked on as disappointing

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