The Falkirk FC Thread

[Reggie Perrin]

3 hours ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

Falkirk had a run that did exactly that from their academy.

For it to be viable that has to be its function. If it can't do that its pointless you would be better off spending the money on players and we tried that with Hartley 

Complete misrepresentation of the point I was making.

I repeat you cannot demand that an academy produces x number of first team ready players per season.

That fact certainly does not make having an academy pointless.

You seem unable to understand how an academy system works in the real world.

[BountyBairn]

21 minutes ago, Reggie Perrin said:

Complete misrepresentation of the point I was making.

I repeat you cannot demand that an academy produces x number of first team ready players per season.

That fact certainly does not make having an academy pointless.

You seem unable to understand how an academy system works in the real world.

You can’t guarantee it of course, but you can’t dispute the stream of graduates from our academy getting to the first was a sign that our academy worked to an extent.
 

 I dare say that all graduates with the exception of maybe a handful were way better to watch and done more than some of the total jobbers we’ve had in the last few years.

We did manage to miss out though where a fee might have been on the cards for maybe 4 or so who went to play higher level than us, but we lost them without recoup. 
 

for me the academy worked well but started to go downhill, the further into the younger age groups we reached to get first team players. Usually caused by slashing budgets and woeful recruitment.

[Guest]

In Scotland, the biggest issue is more often than not, if you find yourself with a young talented player, all too often diddy clubs seldom reap the rewards. Rather than say, being sold to a Burnley for £1.2 million, they end up going to a Hearts/Hibs/OF for £125k who 18 months later, sell them on to a Burnley for £2.2 million, with the diddy club having to be happy at getting £150k sell on fee.

I suppose it amplifies up the system, and Celtic got a lot more than they paid when they sold VVD to Southampton, but it was a fraction of what Southampton got from Liverpool when he was sold on.

I guess an academy will always have a fall back “community” drum to bang when pickings are poor.

[Reggie Perrin]

1 hour ago, BountyBairn said:

You can’t guarantee it of course, but you can’t dispute the stream of graduates from our academy getting to the first was a sign that our academy worked to an extent.
 

 I dare say that all graduates with the exception of maybe a handful were way better to watch and done more than some of the total jobbers we’ve had in the last few years.

We did manage to miss out though where a fee might have been on the cards for maybe 4 or so who went to play higher level than us, but we lost them without recoup. 
 

for me the academy worked well but started to go downhill, the further into the younger age groups we reached to get first team players. Usually caused by slashing budgets and woeful recruitment.

Our academy worked extremely well, yes there was a bit of a drop off in quality towards the end but there were several very promising prospects in the younger age groups.

Exactly what you would expect from any well functioning academy.

Disgraceful and extremely damaging decision to close it.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Reggie Perrin said:

Our academy worked extremely well, yes there was a bit of a drop off in quality towards the end but there were several very promising prospects in the younger age groups.

Exactly what you would expect from any well functioning academy.

Disgraceful and extremely damaging decision to close it.

There was a reason we took a sip IMO. We got into bed with the SFA creating FVA and lost lots of decent prospects due to parents not wanting to see Falkirk players ending up playing alongside poorer quality that the other clubs involved brought to the party.

Once they got over that issue you are right to say that quality started to flow again. The last time I looked around 12 or 13 we lost when we shut the academy have now signed full time contracts at clubs all over Scotland and one down south. 

Still the worst short sighted decision made at Falkirk - probably in my lifetime.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Back Post Misses

[Springfield]

6 hours ago, Reggie Perrin said:

Our academy worked extremely well, yes there was a bit of a drop off in quality towards the end but there were several very promising prospects in the younger age groups.

Exactly what you would expect from any well functioning academy.

Disgraceful and extremely damaging decision to close it.

Abhorrent decision to close the Academy, young players and families totally devastated, and simply deplorable/despicable how it was done. 

 

[PedroMoutinho]

The decision to close the academy was incredibly short-sighted and the way it was handled was even worse.

Having said that, in my view the academy should always support the first team rather  than detract from it. I don’t think it was sustainable to continue with the academy in the form it was with the resources that were required outside the premier league. 

The sensible option would’ve been to look at where savings could be made rather than scrapping in entirely.

[Shodwall cat]

We didn't reap the full rewards we should have from our academy due to the financial issues at the club at the time unfortunately and our poor recruitment post premiership years.  Players were sold on to the first decent bid we got and were getting moved on at younger and younger ages which to me was partly to blame for the fallow spell we suffered.  We also weren't the best at ensuring players contracts were kept at a decent length giving you a far stronger position when dealing with other clubs.  The fact we managed to produce a number of fine players and yet still failed to make any real challenge for the title was a travesty . Managers like  Presley wasted the talent by signing a lot of complete dross in the main to play alongside these youngsters unfortunately. The decision to close it was perhaps the worst in the history of the club right up there beside giving Eddie may the managers job .

[Shodwall cat]

1 hour ago, PedroMoutinho said:

The decision to close the academy was incredibly short-sighted and the way it was handled was even worse.

Having said that, in my view the academy should always support the first team rather  than detract from it. I don’t think it was sustainable to continue with the academy in the form it was with the resources that were required outside the premier league. 

The sensible option would’ve been to look at where savings could be made rather than scrapping in entirely.

Exactly. You cut your cloth accordingly to suit your finances you don't scrap it all together.  The narrative that Campbell spouted was that players wouldn't come to Falkirk if they weren't an elite academy which was absolute nonsense. We had a name for giving young players a chance and parents could see that. Kingsley, Arfield, Wallace, Fulton and so on all got their chance here and went on to have great careers.  Other clubs like Raith for instance didn't have an elite academy but still have brought through some great talent which has made them decent money.

[ShaggerG]

12 hours ago, BountyBairn said:

You can’t guarantee it of course, but you can’t dispute the stream of graduates from our academy getting to the first was a sign that our academy worked to an extent.
 

 I dare say that all graduates with the exception of maybe a handful were way better to watch and done more than some of the total jobbers we’ve had in the last few years.

We did manage to miss out though where a fee might have been on the cards for maybe 4 or so who went to play higher level than us, but we lost them without recoup. 
 

for me the academy worked well but started to go downhill, the further into the younger age groups we reached to get first team players. Usually caused by slashing budgets and woeful recruitment.

Do you mean youngsters who hadn't yet played in the first team? I can only think of Sibbald who had played first team football that we lost for nothing.

[Hank von Hell]

2 hours ago, Shodwall cat said:

Exactly. You cut your cloth accordingly to suit your finances you don't scrap it all together.  The narrative that Campbell spouted was that players wouldn't come to Falkirk if they weren't an elite academy which was absolute nonsense. We had a name for giving young players a chance and parents could see that. Kingsley, Arfield, Wallace, Fulton and so on all got their chance here and went on to have great careers.  Other clubs like Raith for instance didn't have an elite academy but still have brought through some great talent which has made them decent money.

If you ever re-watch the 2013 Falkirk Hibs semi and listen to the commentary, or read any newspapers at the time, they were absolutely singing our praises on youth development, our academy success and outstanding young players in the first team. I remember feeling very proud of our club , no less than SEVEN promoted academy players were in our actual starting line up - and on merit. We were the envy of many clubs for our academy, I agree we had that reputation in the game which IMO would have held up.  

Same was probably said about our 2015 Cup Final squad, I watched it in a pub in Sydney and couldn't hear the commentary, but we had seven ex academy players in the full squad.   

We absolutely blew it...........and I'm not talking about the matches.

 

Craig Campbell had a vision, bin the academy (at Xmas), cash saved to spend on his Brentford Model and in came your Dennon Lewis, TOE, Dan Turner, Froxy etc and the club had a new direction and identity. I wasn't too proud then - in fact I don't think I'd hated our squad more. The dismal merry go round of jobbers followed replacing the junk we'd bought the window before almost entirely each time and we get to where we are now. Out of cash with zero value in the squad. Oh for a young Sibbald, Murdoch, Fulton, Kingsley, McGrandles, Duffie breaking thru now and the young fans singing "he's one of our own".       

Houstie said on BBC Radio Scotland that Margaret Lang was very pro our academy, " until that new CEO came in"

Campbell's the biggest mistake in our history, he ripped out the soul of the club. 

 

[Reggie Perrin]

15 minutes ago, Hank von Hell said:

If you ever re-watch the 2013 Falkirk Hibs semi and listen to the commentary, or read any newspapers at the time, they were absolutely singing our praises on youth development, our academy success and outstanding young players in the first team. I remember feeling very proud of our club , no less than SEVEN promoted academy players were in our actual starting line up - and on merit. We were the envy of many clubs for our academy, I agree we had that reputation in the game which IMO would have held up.  

Same was probably said about our 2015 Cup Final squad, I watched it in a pub in Sydney and couldn't hear the commentary, but we had seven ex academy players in the full squad.   

We absolutely blew it...........and I'm not talking about the matches.

 

Craig Campbell had a vision, bin the academy (at Xmas), cash saved to spend on his Brentford Model and in came your Dennon Lewis, TOE, Dan Turner, Froxy etc and the club had a new direction and identity. I wasn't too proud then - in fact I don't think I'd hated our squad more. The dismal merry go round of jobbers followed replacing the junk we'd bought the window before almost entirely each time and we get to where we are now. Out of cash with zero value in the squad. Oh for a young Sibbald, Murdoch, Fulton, Kingsley, McGrandles, Duffie breaking thru now and the young fans singing "he's one of our own".       

Houstie said on BBC Radio Scotland that Margaret Lang was very pro our academy, " until that new CEO came in"

Campbell's the biggest mistake in our history, he ripped out the soul of the club. 

 

Quite a feat being a bigger idiot than George Craig.

[BountyBairn]

2 hours ago, Reggie Perrin said:

Quite a feat being a bigger idiot than George Craig.

[BountyBairn]

3 hours ago, ShaggerG said:

Do you mean youngsters who hadn't yet played in the first team? I can only think of Sibbald who had played first team football that we lost for nothing.

Was thinking Scobbie, Barr, Alston, Sibbs - don’t think we sold any of those?

[BountyBairn]

8 hours ago, Springfield said:

Abhorrent decision to close the Academy, young players and families totally devastated, and simply deplorable/despicable how it was done. 

 

Done at Christmas time too IIRC?

[HopeStreetWalker]

16 hours ago, Reggie Perrin said:

Complete misrepresentation of the point I was making.

I repeat you cannot demand that an academy produces x number of first team ready players per season.

That fact certainly does not make having an academy pointless.

You seem unable to understand how an academy system works in the real world.

Demanded nothing of the sort. Over say a 5 year spell it is reasonable to expect 10-15 players to come from the academy into the first-team squad.

That end product and the funds generated from sales finance the whole operation that's how an academy system works.

 

[ShaggerG]

45 minutes ago, BountyBairn said:

Was thinking Scobbie, Barr, Alston, Sibbs - don’t think we sold any of those?

Forgot about Alston, he just left at the end of his contract, like Sibbs. I had Scobbie and Barr as pre-academy as I don't think it was officially an academy at the time. Still came through the youth system though.

[Guest]

The bit everyone forgets is that a lad of 16/17 coming into the first team is on a lot less cash than a jobber at 29 who has had 10 clubs in 10 years. It then allows you to bring in quality to fill in the gaps like Taylor, Farid and McGovern 

[Reggie Perrin]

1 hour ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

Demanded nothing of the sort. Over say a 5 year spell it is reasonable to expect 10-15 players to come from the academy into the first-team squad.

That end product and the funds generated from sales finance the whole operation that's how an academy system works.

 

Re read your initial post.

[latapythelegend]

Been hearing that 4 players may be dropping to part time with careers in the fire service in the pipeline.