The Falkirk FC Thread

[LatapyBairn.]

46 minutes ago, Brockvillenomore said:

Let’s see what the shortfall is. I expect it to be no where near the full amount. The Falkirk fans will rally round and support fan ownership. 
It’s not lost on me the biggest hole in the investment plan is somewhere between £200k and £250k not being invested by the Rawlins.  

FWIW I can separate emotion & grievance from the facts and what’s important. It seems most of us here can. Thankfully. 
 

This actually occurred to me as well, shares were ring fenced at 40p through the recent share issue specifically for the Rawlins to invest further as time went on taking a bigger chunk of the club to at least hold they’re 26% shareholding (they actually indicated they would most likely invest over and above this) They now seem to have backed away from taking that option up and seem happy for there current shareholding to be further diluted, what’s changed? There is a more than decent chance the club were relying on that investment.

[Jimmy1876]

30 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Neither of the parts in bold are true though, certainly not with a successful outcome.

I think the operative point here is that it's very unusual, to make the commitments to the costs first then chase about a few months later looking for the means of financing it. It is entirely understandable though if it's simply the case that Martin Ritchie and Sandy Alexander had already agreed to underwrite it and they just are being evasive about it because to say so would reduce the incentive for other fans to contribute and increase the liability those two gentlemen would have to cover.

You would normally secure the investment before you authorise the spend. If they really have to go "find investment elsewhere" now to cover commitments they've already made without someone having underwritten it then that's a crazy business model.

Why are you "very concerned about the finances" if everything is common and not unusual and there are no suggestions they are in trouble?

Simple Google says you are wrong, soft loans are common even for top tier clubs. So definitely appear to be common, but likely doesn't need publicised constantly unless a club happens to be in administration etc. Also I'm more inclined to believe our board who again have been demonstrating a pattern of open honesty. But do soft loans demonstrate a need for increased finance? Yes, and that is never easy. And I am also concerned because I really believe in fan ownership but unfortunately right now we dont have enough fans buying into it, and have a deadline of October, so I'm concerned at missing that chance. 

[bridge of allan bairn]

Just managed to watch the latest Falkirk daft podcast with the 2 directors. Thought Kenny and Keith came across brilliantly. Learnt a lot about the club I didn't know.

Wished we could get out of this contract with the council and own our own stadium on a very long term mortgage basis. Councils are under more financial pressure than ever and now might be a good point of leverage. Appreciate we are too, but the very significant premier League size rent might cover most of a very long term loan.

Re Falkirk daft well done guys, have watched most of them and really enjoyed them. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by bridge of allan bairn

[Fifes Elite Force]

5 hours ago, Jimmy1876 said:

So basically there is an aim to raise £400k to cover an operating loss, this loss has usually been covered by various other means in the past, soft loans, share holders, investment, player sales. However, this new board is trying to make a push for fan ownership and so the goal is to have two fans organisations raise 250k each (to give a £100k flexibility). One of those fan organisations is the Falkirk Supporters Society (FSS). The money must be raised by end of the season, but the board needs to guarantee that and so we need the total figure to be "pledged" or signed up to by the end of October otherwise the shares designated to FSS will have to be sold elsewhere to guarantee the £400k operating loss is covered. Currently FSS had 500 members (before the recent call to sign up) donating on average £12. To cover the £250k designated to FSS we would need between 2500 to 3000 members at an average of £12 per month. There appears to have been an uptake since the call for sign ups both in new members but also in current members increasing their monthly subscription but as of yet not clear exactly how much. Hope that explains it and makes up for my earlier frustration.  

Cheers for explaining.

 

It does seem like an ambitious target. A couple of years ago something similar happened where a few of our fans(board members etc) had put their hand in their pocket and decided enough was enough and we needed investment from elsewhere(still fan owned at this point). Which is why we seeked investment from the outside which is now our German owners and had a season of really cutting back under Crawford and playing youngsters while looking for them. We do have a scheme similar to yours called the lifeline which was pushed during admin times, its more a draw type thing but loads of people signed up to help save the club. That got 1000 people. That wasnt the only vehicle at the time for fundraising but it was a major one that was pushed to normal punters. Given we are both similar sized clubs and if 2500 sign ups is the target it seems ambitious given we only got 1000 when it was panic stations for us. Maybe thats too basic an outlook on it and its more nuanced than that.

From being involved with fan engagement stuff at the pars its pretty clear 90% of the support dont really want to get involved more than paying for their ticket and going to the games which is maybe why allot of people dont know about it. 

 

Good luck with it though I hope it helps cover the shortfall that you might have(if any). And obviously I hope you do poorly on the pitch

Edited October 6, 2022 by Fifes Elite Force

[ShaggerG]

22 hours ago, StuartA said:

Just to be clear - FSS membership is one member, one vote.  It’s on the website.  There are no plans to change that. 
 

And anyone can join by Standing Order too. It’s also on our website and we’ve been leafleting home games much of the season with an SO mandate. We’ll be asking for volunteers to help leaflet the Alloa and Kelty games so we can get them in more people’s hands. 

Hi Stuart,

I've been doing a bit of 'pressganging' in an effort to get folk signed up and I spoke to a guy this morning who had no idea of our financial situation despite the fact that he attends nearly all home games. Would it be possible to get something on the official site? Maybe something with red flashing lights that describes the situation exactly! He doesn't do twitter etc, so assume the main site is his only source of info and I think there will be many others in the same situation.

I believe the last update on the OS was September 2nd so now may be a good time to put something up.

[LatapyBairn.]

Might not be a bad idea to do a bit of FSS promotional stuff half time at one of our home games, maybe an ex favourite player on the pitch with a microphone in conjunction with one of the FSS guys asking fans to sign up and explaining how to go about it. Even just a five minute announcement over the speaker system might help. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by LatapyBairn.

[Bairnardo]

Might not be a bad idea to do a bit of FSS promotional stuff half time at one of our home games, maybe an ex favourite player on the pitch with a microphone in conjunction with one of the FSS guys asking fans to sign up and explaining how to go about it. Even just a five minute announcement over the speaker system might help. 

Crunchie, Latapy, God and Will Vaulks please.

[ShaggerG]

34 minutes ago, LatapyBairn. said:

Might not be a bad idea to do a bit of FSS promotional stuff half time at one of our home games, maybe an ex favourite player on the pitch with a microphone in conjunction with one of the FSS guys asking fans to sign up and explaining how to go about it. Even just a five minute announcement over the speaker system might help. 

Fantastic idea. Could get Crunchie to do the crossbar challenge while he's out there!

[Guest Caractacus Potts]

41 minutes ago, ShaggerG said:

Hi Stuart,

I've been doing a bit of 'pressganging' in an effort to get folk signed up and I spoke to a guy this morning who had no idea of our financial situation despite the fact that he attends nearly all home games. Would it be possible to get something on the official site? Maybe something with red flashing lights that describes the situation exactly! He doesn't do twitter etc, so assume the main site is his only source of info and I think there will be many others in the same situation.

I believe the last update on the OS was September 2nd so now may be a good time to put something up.

Which is exactly why it’s important to not abandon the main website! 

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, Jimmy1876 said:

Simple Google says you are wrong, soft loans are common even for top tier clubs. So definitely appear to be common, but likely doesn't need publicised constantly unless a club happens to be in administration etc. Also I'm more inclined to believe our board who again have been demonstrating a pattern of open honesty. But do soft loans demonstrate a need for increased finance? Yes, and that is never easy. And I am also concerned because I really believe in fan ownership but unfortunately right now we dont have enough fans buying into it, and have a deadline of October, so I'm concerned at missing that chance. 

Ah Google, that bastion of football finance! Are you seriously taking your financial advice from Google? You started posting by criticising others for not knowing what they were talking about in football finance and you're googling things? You've moved the goalposts anyway. Nobody said soft loans were all that unusual, particularly at the very biggest clubs (you know, the sort Google will be referring to). We were talking about bankrolling a large six figure budget deficit by calling on fans to fund it through a donation membership scheme AFTER you've already committed to it. If you don't think that's unusual you're limiting your sample to Hearts, Motherwell, St Mirren and Morton! (yes I know there will be others, but it's sure as hell not a normal or remotely sustainable business model).

[18BAIRN76]

Apologies if this has been posted already, and Ken it’s probs peanuts, but any idea how much you actually get for a cup game on Alba? 

[Dawson Park Boy]

6 minutes ago, 18BAIRN76 said:

Apologies if this has been posted already, and Ken it’s probs peanuts, but any idea how much you actually get for a cup game on Alba? 

Who is Ken?

[StuartA]

1 hour ago, ShaggerG said:

Hi Stuart,

I've been doing a bit of 'pressganging' in an effort to get folk signed up and I spoke to a guy this morning who had no idea of our financial situation despite the fact that he attends nearly all home games. Would it be possible to get something on the official site? Maybe something with red flashing lights that describes the situation exactly! He doesn't do twitter etc, so assume the main site is his only source of info and I think there will be many others in the same situation.

I believe the last update on the OS was September 2nd so now may be a good time to put something up.

Hi Shagger (feels like I’m talking to myself…)

Do you mean the club or FSS site? I suppose both makes sense. We have tried to get the message out far-and-wide but it’s clear it hasn’t reached everyone.

[LatapyBairn.]

1 hour ago, ShaggerG said:

Fantastic idea. Could get Crunchie to do the crossbar challenge while he's out there!

Price of the season ticket would be worth it for this alone, just to see the wee legend on the park kicking a ball again! Even if it was the cross bar challenge. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by LatapyBairn.

[Guest Brockvillenomore]

34 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Ah Google, that bastion of football finance! Are you seriously taking your financial advice from Google? You started posting by criticising others for not knowing what they were talking about in football finance and you're googling things? You've moved the goalposts anyway. Nobody said soft loans were all that unusual, particularly at the very biggest clubs (you know, the sort Google will be referring to). We were talking about bankrolling a large six figure budget deficit by calling on fans to fund it through a donation membership scheme AFTER you've already committed to it. If you don't think that's unusual you're limiting your sample to Hearts, Motherwell, St Mirren and Morton! (yes I know there will be others, but it's sure as hell not a normal or remotely sustainable business model).

FYI and context. The shares being sold were ratified at an EGM nearly two years ago.
 

The club had 1,000 pledges that would see the investment pretty much sorted in 18 months.  The club were also anticipating a further £250k investment from the Rawlins that didn’t materialise. 

It may have escaped your attention the last couple of years have been somewhat “unusual”.  

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by Brockvillenomore

[RC55 FFC]

25 minutes ago, 18BAIRN76 said:

Apologies if this has been posted already, and Ken it’s probs peanuts, but any idea how much you actually get for a cup game on Alba? 

I believe their is no extra fee for a televised match in this comp. 

[ShaggerG]

37 minutes ago, StuartA said:

Hi Shagger (feels like I’m talking to myself…)

Do you mean the club or FSS site? I suppose both makes sense. We have tried to get the message out far-and-wide but it’s clear it hasn’t reached everyone.

Aye, sorry, I meant the club site.

[FFC 1876]

34 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Who is Ken?

Childish if you ask me.

[LatapyBairn.]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Ah Google, that bastion of football finance! Are you seriously taking your financial advice from Google? You started posting by criticising others for not knowing what they were talking about in football finance and you're googling things? You've moved the goalposts anyway. Nobody said soft loans were all that unusual, particularly at the very biggest clubs (you know, the sort Google will be referring to). We were talking about bankrolling a large six figure budget deficit by calling on fans to fund it through a donation membership scheme AFTER you've already committed to it. If you don't think that's unusual you're limiting your sample to Hearts, Motherwell, St Mirren and Morton! (yes I know there will be others, but it's sure as hell not a normal or remotely sustainable business model).

There’s a bit of a difference between “donation” as you’ve put it and purchasing shares in the club. I donated money in 1997 when the club was in dire straits, in this instance my direct debt to the Falkirk Supporters Society is something completely different, the society along with the patrons group will eventually own 51% of the club effectively safeguarding the club from unscrupulous opportunist individuals we’ve seen over the years and giving us fans a proper voice. To say that the model isn’t sustainable is quite obviously untrue when you look at clubs of similar size thriving under fan ownership, Motherwell and St Mirren being the obvious examples and Hearts to a larger extent. Morton are now also majority fan owned I believe and although not flush with cash are on a far more stable footing than they were previously, there are far more examples of successful fan owned and run clubs than there are examples of unsuccessful ones.

Edited October 6, 2022 by LatapyBairn.

[Springfield]

There’s various sales and marketing techniques that the representatives and club should be implementing, and agree with some posters saying that many fans are still not fully aware of the FSS and the current financials.

ST renewal - come absolutely clean and tell the fans how it is……. Get rid of the early bird and increase the STs for around £50 (ie £25 early bird + £25 increase) would bring in an immediate £100K based on 2000 fans.

This is only a broad example of how the club could generate cash. Absolutely sure there would be fans upset, yes we’re living in times of increased costs, but as said TELL THE FANS the truth and no bullshit / begging / arse licking / blackmail it might just work.