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The Falkirk FC Thread


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Just now, Kevin James Left Knee said:

There is nothing to stop that person (as no-one can investigate who is signing up) from opening  5 different memberships one in each name of his family. Under 16s are not meant to get a vote in the elections but in practice that is not checkable as no-one asks for proof of age when joining. I still think it is best to be a single payer and accept parity in voting but the reality doesn't stop what you are arguing for.

No being funny and I can see your point with the 5 different memberships but do you really think that someone would go to the trouble to create 5 different email accounts verify such email accounts and then maintain them, just for a vote at the club.  if anything human nature and especially in this day and age but people will take the path of least resistance so basically (they wouldn't be arsed).

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3 minutes ago, AL-FFC said:

No being funny and I can see your point with the 5 different memberships but do you really think that someone would go to the trouble to create 5 different email accounts verify such email accounts and then maintain them, just for a vote at the club.  if anything human nature and especially in this day and age but people will take the path of least resistance so basically (they wouldn't be arsed).

I know of one person who has three accounts that he pays for which include his children. I am not saying this is how people should progress or is a good idea but if its a big deal it could be a way round the one vote per account. We just don't have the resources to check every membership sign up.

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3 hours ago, Springfield said:

Deliberately kept away from the “debate” however some interesting comments and some absolute shite.

Like the vast majority if not all supporters of the club, we’ve been subjected to the worst few years we could have ever imagined. Now in the lower reaches of Scottish football, three BODs and four/five managers in past few seasons confirm our abhorrent decline.

All I want is a credible/stable BOD, people with the ability to run the club, in all capacities, and if these people are “Falkirk People” it’s a bonus. For me the current BOD have made some howlers/errors but I’m sure they’ve all learned ie DGW/Griffiths/Jeremy Beadle. 

I don’t know any of the current directors, but I do believe that they are trying their bollocks to get the club on a stable financial footing, and ultimately have the club in “fan ownership”.

My views are this is going to be a huge challenge, we’d stand a better chance of people signing up if we were challenging in next league up and different economic conditions, but that’s where we are.

I will one hundred percent back the BOD  and club, but it want stop my having a genuine dig if I feel the theirs a genuine reason to do so.

With the appointment of M&S, and without getting carried away, there’s signs that if we can keep our key players fit, we won’t be far away at season end. 


 
 

 

I agree with you. No board should ever be immune from criticism. 

What I can say on behalf of those in the CI is that dealing with the new board has been night and day to the last lot. That doesn’t mean to say there wasn’t one or two things we had issues with however Keith and Kenny are willing to listen and stand to reason. That never occurred with Deans and Co. 

There’s definitely still room for improvement in all areas of the club but I don’t think they would suggest otherwise and feel there has been a steady improvement since they took over. Hopefully we can continue to progress and the decision they made to increase the budget will be prove to be the right one. Think they explained the decision to make that pretty well and there will be an increase in FSS membership to help plug the gap. 

 

Edited by Guest
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45 minutes ago, Duncan Freemason said:

I will just go with the first bit. Paying £10 a month to buy the vote that someone who can’t afford £10 to buy a vote is in every essence, you making my argument for me. You cannot escape the principle.

Ceding more votes to someone paying £100 a month isn’t anything to do with worthiness. It’s reflects their contribution to the group, and I ask again, is the person who does that very thing, and is assigned 10 votes, a threat to the other 529 votes out there? What about 10 people doing £100 a month? Is their 100 votes enough to destabilise or undermine the other 520 votes?

Bear in mind that beyond all the heady inclusive chat, the FSS is about one thing……..raising as much cash as possible……and like everything in life, there is little wrong in recognising contributions that are above and beyond the base requirement. Hell, it’s why people who pay more for a ST get a Prime seat.

Your point about “go buy shares” is ultimately a bit daft, as that is exactly what FSS does, and that is what buys FSS its power……..again, the more contributions FSS makes, the more valid, important and worthy the voice of FSS becomes…..no?

There is a whole raft of stuff that for me, makes this “equality” stuff creak at the seams. How many monthly contributions do you need to make before you can vote? Does a single £10 payment entitle an individual to a vote? Is that considered to be “equality”?

Back to my theoretical person thinking about £50 a month, but seeing no incentive to do so. If they then chose to pay £10 in their name and the same again for their partner and three kids who have no interest in football……..so one person gets 5 votes for their £50……..would you seek to remove that person from the FSS membership?

Or if that person just decided to make up 4 names and pay £10 for each of them via a common PayPal account. How would you deal with that?

 

Think you misread what I said, I said those who cannot afford more than £10. But to add to that, I also mentioned in another post I think £5 would also be reasonable (and is done so by other clubs) and if they include that I think it should also mean 1 vote. Primarily because I believe the "product" you pay for is to be part of the organisation and what it stands for and to help get shares and as part of that, you get to vote as one person of that organisation.

I think this is where we disagree, because you seem to believe that power or votes should be based on level of contribution, and that is why I say there are other options for that, such as buying shares. So to say that argument is daft I think is just a bit short sighted, my point in saying that is to point out there are already avenues for people to have more say based on contribution. But FSS was not built for that purpose, FSS is a supporter group designed to build shares so fans can all have a say which collectively cannot be ignored, and to do that the organisation needs to buy shares, the same as every other group or individual who wants more power to have more say. The difference is that within FSS, there is a collective, based on votes. By telling some people within that organisation they have more votes just defeats the point, and that is why I say just to buy shares, because that is already possible if that is what you want to do. 

As for incentives and contribution, the incentive is that FSS can buy shares, the incentive is being part of an organisation developing fan ownership and if you want your contribution to be recognised and that is truly the only reason you want to give more (which just says a lot about you tbh) then once again I would suggest buying your own shares in your own name. Because that is already a system which facilitates that. 

Also this whole "is a person who has 10 votes a threat" is just a bit silly honestly? Like no of course they are not a threat, but that person believes their opinion is worth the same as 10 individual people with 10 individual brains/opinions/decisions. And once again I just do not believe that is what fan ownership should be about when the whole premise is to have fans be able to have their collective voice heard. And is one person able to destabilise a whole system, no, but if one person does not want stand for and agree with the ideals of that collective why bother being part of it?

As for dealing with people who want to set up all these different accounts, nothing to stop them if they want to do that, I am not here to question every individual person and their decisions. People can make their own decisions. But ultimately what I am here to discuss is whether the FSS as an organisation and fans group should facilitate the idea that those with more money have more say, and I do not think they should.  

Lastly. "this “equality” stuff"....  statements like that really just make it clear what kind of person you are. Maybe the idea of "equality stuff" comes apart at the seams because there are people who think they are better than others and don't want equality of opinion. And those people are generally privelaged enough to not need to think about "this equality stuff". But, each to their own, if that is what you believe its what you believe but I think if the FSS were to adopt that attitude it would be very contradictory to everything else they stand for. Ultimately though that statement there is why I am going to leave this conversation here, because there are very obvious fundamentals we are just not going to agree on which underpin this £10 per vote conversation. Said my piece on it. 

Edited by Jimmy1876
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42 minutes ago, AL-FFC said:

No being funny and I can see your point with the 5 different memberships but do you really think that someone would go to the trouble to create 5 different email accounts verify such email accounts and then maintain them, just for a vote at the club.  if anything human nature and especially in this day and age but people will take the path of least resistance so basically (they wouldn't be arsed).

I think it is actually more difficult than just emails, when I upped my contribution by cancelling and resubscribing with my paypal I got an email to say thank you for increasing. So the system is linked to the paypal account, not just the email I think. If that is the case then I think you have to set up 5 different paypal accounts under different emails and set up card details for each of those paypal accounts which I am not sure how many people would go to the effort to do 😆

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As an aside, the option to buy personal shares is still available. I’ve just purchased some as decided I wanted shares in my own name rather than up my FSS subs. 

Just to let you know that there are various options available if you can afford to contribute more, whether it be via the FSS, personal shares or the Patrons. 

Edited by Guest
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Guest Brockvillenomore
1 hour ago, Duncan Freemason said:

? How come?

@PedroMoutinho said a cynic might say that the FSS has been given an impossible task.
 

It’s not and suggesting it could be read as talking down what we can achieve as supporters. IMHO. 
 

Edited by Brockvillenomore
Twice cos I’m an ar@e
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1 hour ago, Brockvillenomore said:

@PedroMoutinho said a cynic might say that the FSS has been given an impossible task.
 

It’s not and suggesting it could be read as talking down what we can achieve as supporters. IMHO. 
 

I’m afraid setting a target for the FSS to increase income by 500% by the end of October in the middle of a cost of living crisis is quite clearly an impossible task. Quite possibly deliberately so imo.

 

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Guest Back Post Misses
16 minutes ago, NavyBlueArmy1876 said:

Last I heard there had been an increase of around 30 to take the total numbers to 535 

I heard more than that, also a few upgrading and some one off donations. 

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7 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

I heard more than that, also a few upgrading and some one off donations. 

So what’s the total and who has the correct MI ? It seems like loads of people have an opinion on what the impact has been and they all differ.

It’s maybe just a personal thing but it’d be good to hear the actual impact the statement has had volume wise.

 

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Guest Caractacus Potts
1 hour ago, d , mcarthur said:

Is there not a Pie and Bovril for lawyers and accountants you could all piss of too, does nobody ever want to post about football on here, 

Well you don’t anyway, judging by your past contributions! 

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Guest Caractacus Potts
3 hours ago, Kevin James Left Knee said:

I know of one person who has three accounts that he pays for which include his children. I am not saying this is how people should progress or is a good idea but if its a big deal it could be a way round the one vote per account. We just don't have the resources to check every membership sign up.

Is there a definitive on why voting rights is an issue for £5 membership as Robbocop stated? 

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Guest Brockvillenomore
1 hour ago, PedroMoutinho said:

I’m afraid setting a target for the FSS to increase income by 500% by the end of October in the middle of a cost of living crisis is quite clearly an impossible task. Quite possibly deliberately so imo.

 

End of October is for pledges, so the growth is over eight months.  Not one. 
You don’t have knowledge of the motives or decision making process here, so your opinion is essentially guesswork. 

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3 minutes ago, Caractacus Potts said:

Is there a definitive on why voting rights is an issue for £5 membership as Robbocop stated? 

I think it's just a fine balance, as has already been mentioned if you open up a £5 a month option you may also lose some money from people dropping down their payment to the new minimum so it would be counter productive. I'd imagine paypal take some sort of fee for collecting the payments so a £5 minimum may not be seen as worthwhile.

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1 hour ago, PedroMoutinho said:

I’m afraid setting a target for the FSS to increase income by 500% by the end of October in the middle of a cost of living crisis is quite clearly an impossible task. Quite possibly deliberately so imo.

 

The guys stated on the podcast they’d be looking to ring fence the shares allocated for the FSS so regardless of numbers by the end of the month that shareholding will still be there longer term for the society to purchase. Statements like this honestly just stink of trouble making as they have no basis in fact, the guys on the board are working in tandem with the FSS as Stuart Adam has actually stated on this forum as well. No idea why you feel the need to fling in these vailed accusations! Why on earth for any possible reasons would the club want to make trouble for the FSS?…..the whole concept in itself was actually first brought forward by Kenny Jamison himself via the initial BtB fan buy out bid before the club then decided to opt for Mark Campbell’s offer! Kenny who incidentally is a member of the FSS along with every other member of the current BOD! 

Edited by LatapyBairn.
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Guest Caractacus Potts
38 minutes ago, FFC 1876 said:

I think it's just a fine balance, as has already been mentioned if you open up a £5 a month option you may also lose some money from people dropping down their payment to the new minimum so it would be counter productive. I'd imagine paypal take some sort of fee for collecting the payments so a £5 minimum may not be seen as worthwhile.

Yeh I can appreciate that issue but asking specifically to anyone from the FSS as voting rights were cited as being the main issue for not introducing a £5 fee.

Clubs with similar fanbases(who have the £5 option) have hundreds of more members so the suggestion there is we are missing a trick and if there is no more for extra money then see no reason why £5 fees shouldn’t have a vote. 

The difference in PayPal fees is a bit of a moot point though if a £5 option increases the number of subscriptions. Overall though another platform should be explored as PayPal fees can be quite high when dealing with small donations. 

Edited by Caractacus Potts
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I don't pay my monthly amount to FSS because it gives me a vote. I pay it because i am a life long Falkirk fan who wants the best for the club and think that like minded fans should provide the best future. Ok i can vote on issues like DG but that is nowhere near the main reason i subscribe. People talking about the higher you pay the more votes you should have or if you only have £5 you can only have the balloons and whistles but not the vote saddens me. I thought as a club we could be a free democracy but sadly it is a case that those with a penny in their pocket are looking down at those with a half penny

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