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27 minutes ago, ShaggerG said:

We need to pray that someone buys Jay Fulton this close season because I think that he's the last one left that may give us a windfall. That's assuming that a sell-on clause was built in to the deal of course.

He has been linked to join up with his former manager at Nottingham Forrest 🤞 

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We both went along to the early session the other night and I’ve tried to summarise the best I can for any fans who weren’t there. Just trying to be helpful so please don’t shoot the messenger! 
  After a brief introduction from Keith Gourlay, the opening section was from Kenny Jamieson and was around the performance in 2021/22. Summarised as:
  • for context, 450k is the average yearly operating loss in historic years
  • we’ve had 17 operating losses in the last 20 years he said
  • we had 720k in bank at start of 2021/22 (we were lucky due to apparently receiving a sell-on clause for Will Vaulks and some residual Rawlins investment)
  • since taking over in 21/22 the new board are running at 2 times the normal operating loss (anticipated loss this year will be a staggering 900k+)
  • serious current cash flow concerns he said, club is not in a healthy position
  • KJ confirmed it is “the worst cash flow position at the start of any season since we were at Ochilview”
  • he said they just paid the wages a few days ago but that there is very little left in the pot now
  • begging bowl went out for more FSS members or anyone who wants to throw in 10k to join his patrons group
  • this FSS plug was repeated about four times during the night and leaflets left on all our seats too
  He said income needs to be boosted by 300-400k via the appointment of Graham Stewart, who was introduced to everyone as our new commercial manager, apparently he’s been brought in as he’s related to one of the patrons group a gentleman sitting along from us said so he is a known face to them. If Graham isn’t successful at boosting income by 300-400k then KJ explained the only other option for the club is to run at an operating loss and ideally he wants to cap the operating loss to a maximum of 400k a year. So taking about 10% off the average 450k figure he gave previously. This year is over double that though.    They said they didn’t think the club would literally have ran out of money in recent months and when asked why not, the reply  was “I’m sure the board would’ve found soft loans from somewhere”…. but there was no indication at the session of where that would actually be. It did make us both worry a bit that it sounds like the new controlling group don’t actually seem to have any rainy day cash.    Non-footballing costs have been reduced, because four people have walked out recently. The board confirmed we now only have the equivalent of 9 full-time staff left at the entire club and both Nigel Serafini and Gordon Wright said it’s the volunteers in various areas who have basically saved us and that they are vital because if we lose them, then our costs will increase further and put even more strain on the current finances.    KJ acknowledged that the new board have worked in business but that none of the new board has any football experience and since they decided to fire Gary Holt they have now inadvertently created a football knowledge gap, but he said that we shouldn’t worry as Martin Rennie has guided them in terms of football structure on what “a well run club looks like” and they are following his guidance, plus info from other people they have spoke to.   The next bit of info was the one that was really contradictory, having just said that they wanted to control costs given how bad the finances now are, they went on to say they actually want to spend more cash on a new grass training facility of all things. They said they are close to exploring/sealing options and wouldn’t say what. It’s a badly kept secret though that they’ve apparently done a deal to spend roughly £30-35,000 to hire Little Kerse, as coaches of youth teams down there have known about it for a few weeks now and have been openly talking about it when we took our grandson down to his training recently. It seems a strange decision especially given the serious cashflow concerns mentioned and I can’t help but feel it’s just a waste of money. Neither of the two of us could see how they needed this and if it turns out to be true and we do indeed move training to Little Kerse then to spend what little precious money we have left like that is just wrong, as that sort of cash should be given to the manager to get us a competent striker for once. Personal opinion only and each to their own I guess.    We’d also lose the slight advantage of being used to our own pitch if we train instead on grass all week. The very thin justification offered for it all was that grass would help “player recovery”. Personally, I’d still rather have a striker.    Continuing pitch chat, they said that no cash has been put aside by them for pitch renewal yet. The money from the upcoming Killers gigs will apparently be ring-fenced towards pitch renewal costs, but they admitted later during the Q&A that it will only pay a small portion of it. They have no idea currently where the rest of the cash is coming from.    Everything about finances was depressing to be honest. Douglas Moodie gave one positive and said it previously took six and a half weeks to generate a set of “management accounts”, but under his guidance and a new finance software system they have bought, they can now generate these reports within two days. Sadly, it seems all that’s done is maybe make them realise how much of a worry the cash situation is!   Overall, while a couple of them spoke well in terms of delivery of the content, the actual content itself didn’t stand up to much scrutiny, especially the financial stuff. As a result my husband and I both left really disheartened. I applaud them for trying and sincerely want them all to do well as they are fans the same as we are, but at the moment it doesn’t yet feel like a safe pair of hands and there seems to be a lack of outright leadership as they’ve still not chosen a chairman. Thankless task though I’m sure and not one I’d do, so I can understand their hesitation at stepping up to the role.    We couldn’t make previous fan event sessions as our daughter has an auto-immune condition and had to isolate for long spells until she was well enough to get fully vaccinated, but we both went along to the early session the other night as we wanted to genuinely engage with the current board and so that we knew we had made an effort to actually meet them in person and listen to what they had to say, but we both came away a little downbeat, mainly due to the financial concerns.    The one bit of critical feedback for them we’d give is that they need to stop blaming everyone else but themselves. It’s not a good look. They’ve been in place about 8 months now and we both genuinely understand they won’t fix every problem overnight and we are genuinely grateful to them for trying, most fans have been supportive too rather than give them any sort of hard time, but constantly trying to say that every negative in or around the club is still somehow someone else’s fault fully 8 months later just no longer cuts it I’m afraid. They need to accept that it’s now their performance, not anyone else’s.    They’d genuinely have gotten more respect from us both if they’d actually stood there and publicly admitted they’ve made mistakes just like previous boards have too i.e. wasting an alleged £2,500 per week on an overweight Leigh Griffiths who only scored two goals, a supporter posting on Facebook that they were apparently seen at Goodwillie’s house trying to sign him, not to mention the totally failed appointment of Martin Rennie as manager.    Me and my husband, plus our kids, their partners and our grandkids will all do our bit and renew our season tickets and we’ve all signed up to FSS to help too, even though it’s difficult with all our bills going up just now, plus supporting our daughter while she was off work ill, but the undoubted overriding worry we both came away with chatting in the car on the way back to Larbert is that given the serious cashflow concerns and the money blown on Griffiths, multiple personnel payoffs and various other things, it seems like we may be heading down the path towards administration and we both truly dread the thought of that happening.    If you can, join up to the FSS. It sounds like it’ll be badly needed.           

Thank you for the summary, very informative.
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2 hours ago, FFC 1876 said:

 

There's been a fair few posts on here lately about the fact Mcglynn wants to train on grass so spending 30-35k to train at little kerse in my eyes wouldn't be a bad deal especially given how bad our pitch actually is at the moment, the less it's used by our first team the better until it's replaced. 

This is important - the less we use the current pitch the longer we get out of it - it will have to be replaced but that would be much better in 3 or 4 years than in 2. If we keep ring fencing gig money then by 3 years we might find this much more affordable.

And yes we have money worries but at least we are facing up to them. FSS is giving the club 5 grand a month at the moment and hopes to increase that - it is not a huge amount but it helps a lot.

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1 hour ago, LatapyBairn. said:

He has been linked to join up with his former manager at Nottingham Forrest 🤞 

I read an article that says that 'he's free to leave'. He's contracted until 2024 so I'm unsure if that means that he can just walk away or if they'd still want a fee for him? If it's the latter then they wouldn't be looking for much, which would obviously impact the sum that we would receive.

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We both went along to the early session the other night and I’ve tried to summarise the best I can for any fans who weren’t there. Just trying to be helpful so please don’t shoot the messenger! 
  After a brief introduction from Keith Gourlay, the opening section was from Kenny Jamieson and was around the performance in 2021/22. Summarised as:
  • for context, 450k is the average yearly operating loss in historic years
  • we’ve had 17 operating losses in the last 20 years he said
  • we had 720k in bank at start of 2021/22 (we were lucky due to apparently receiving a sell-on clause for Will Vaulks and some residual Rawlins investment)
  • since taking over in 21/22 the new board are running at 2 times the normal operating loss (anticipated loss this year will be a staggering 900k+)
  • serious current cash flow concerns he said, club is not in a healthy position
  • KJ confirmed it is “the worst cash flow position at the start of any season since we were at Ochilview”
  • he said they just paid the wages a few days ago but that there is very little left in the pot now
  • begging bowl went out for more FSS members or anyone who wants to throw in 10k to join his patrons group
  • this FSS plug was repeated about four times during the night and leaflets left on all our seats too
  He said income needs to be boosted by 300-400k via the appointment of Graham Stewart, who was introduced to everyone as our new commercial manager, apparently he’s been brought in as he’s related to one of the patrons group a gentleman sitting along from us said so he is a known face to them. If Graham isn’t successful at boosting income by 300-400k then KJ explained the only other option for the club is to run at an operating loss and ideally he wants to cap the operating loss to a maximum of 400k a year. So taking about 10% off the average 450k figure he gave previously. This year is over double that though.    They said they didn’t think the club would literally have ran out of money in recent months and when asked why not, the reply  was “I’m sure the board would’ve found soft loans from somewhere”…. but there was no indication at the session of where that would actually be. It did make us both worry a bit that it sounds like the new controlling group don’t actually seem to have any rainy day cash.    Non-footballing costs have been reduced, because four people have walked out recently. The board confirmed we now only have the equivalent of 9 full-time staff left at the entire club and both Nigel Serafini and Gordon Wright said it’s the volunteers in various areas who have basically saved us and that they are vital because if we lose them, then our costs will increase further and put even more strain on the current finances.    KJ acknowledged that the new board have worked in business but that none of the new board has any football experience and since they decided to fire Gary Holt they have now inadvertently created a football knowledge gap, but he said that we shouldn’t worry as Martin Rennie has guided them in terms of football structure on what “a well run club looks like” and they are following his guidance, plus info from other people they have spoke to.   The next bit of info was the one that was really contradictory, having just said that they wanted to control costs given how bad the finances now are, they went on to say they actually want to spend more cash on a new grass training facility of all things. They said they are close to exploring/sealing options and wouldn’t say what. It’s a badly kept secret though that they’ve apparently done a deal to spend roughly £30-35,000 to hire Little Kerse, as coaches of youth teams down there have known about it for a few weeks now and have been openly talking about it when we took our grandson down to his training recently. It seems a strange decision especially given the serious cashflow concerns mentioned and I can’t help but feel it’s just a waste of money. Neither of the two of us could see how they needed this and if it turns out to be true and we do indeed move training to Little Kerse then to spend what little precious money we have left like that is just wrong, as that sort of cash should be given to the manager to get us a competent striker for once. Personal opinion only and each to their own I guess.    We’d also lose the slight advantage of being used to our own pitch if we train instead on grass all week. The very thin justification offered for it all was that grass would help “player recovery”. Personally, I’d still rather have a striker.    Continuing pitch chat, they said that no cash has been put aside by them for pitch renewal yet. The money from the upcoming Killers gigs will apparently be ring-fenced towards pitch renewal costs, but they admitted later during the Q&A that it will only pay a small portion of it. They have no idea currently where the rest of the cash is coming from.    Everything about finances was depressing to be honest. Douglas Moodie gave one positive and said it previously took six and a half weeks to generate a set of “management accounts”, but under his guidance and a new finance software system they have bought, they can now generate these reports within two days. Sadly, it seems all that’s done is maybe make them realise how much of a worry the cash situation is!   Overall, while a couple of them spoke well in terms of delivery of the content, the actual content itself didn’t stand up to much scrutiny, especially the financial stuff. As a result my husband and I both left really disheartened. I applaud them for trying and sincerely want them all to do well as they are fans the same as we are, but at the moment it doesn’t yet feel like a safe pair of hands and there seems to be a lack of outright leadership as they’ve still not chosen a chairman. Thankless task though I’m sure and not one I’d do, so I can understand their hesitation at stepping up to the role.    We couldn’t make previous fan event sessions as our daughter has an auto-immune condition and had to isolate for long spells until she was well enough to get fully vaccinated, but we both went along to the early session the other night as we wanted to genuinely engage with the current board and so that we knew we had made an effort to actually meet them in person and listen to what they had to say, but we both came away a little downbeat, mainly due to the financial concerns.    The one bit of critical feedback for them we’d give is that they need to stop blaming everyone else but themselves. It’s not a good look. They’ve been in place about 8 months now and we both genuinely understand they won’t fix every problem overnight and we are genuinely grateful to them for trying, most fans have been supportive too rather than give them any sort of hard time, but constantly trying to say that every negative in or around the club is still somehow someone else’s fault fully 8 months later just no longer cuts it I’m afraid. They need to accept that it’s now their performance, not anyone else’s.    They’d genuinely have gotten more respect from us both if they’d actually stood there and publicly admitted they’ve made mistakes just like previous boards have too i.e. wasting an alleged £2,500 per week on an overweight Leigh Griffiths who only scored two goals, a supporter posting on Facebook that they were apparently seen at Goodwillie’s house trying to sign him, not to mention the totally failed appointment of Martin Rennie as manager.    Me and my husband, plus our kids, their partners and our grandkids will all do our bit and renew our season tickets and we’ve all signed up to FSS to help too, even though it’s difficult with all our bills going up just now, plus supporting our daughter while she was off work ill, but the undoubted overriding worry we both came away with chatting in the car on the way back to Larbert is that given the serious cashflow concerns and the money blown on Griffiths, multiple personnel payoffs and various other things, it seems like we may be heading down the path towards administration and we both truly dread the thought of that happening.    If you can, join up to the FSS. It sounds like it’ll be badly needed.           

Appreciate that there’s nothing here I can use to confirm our current position or how factual some of these comments are, but is it really only me that’s concerned re the naivety of some of the decisions that we appear to be making if this truly is our financial position?
You don’t need much football knowledge to know when you have to plug a gap and not assume that someone will come along to bail you out.
Anyway, over to Shadwell to raise the case for the defence……
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14 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:


Appreciate that there’s nothing here I can use to confirm our current position or how factual some of these comments are, but is it really only me that’s concerned re the naivety of some of the decisions that we appear to be making if this truly is our financial position?
You don’t need much football knowledge to know when you have to plug a gap and not assume that someone will come along to bail you out.
Anyway, over to Shadwell to raise the case for the defence……

I wouldn’t take a post on here as a factually accurate reflection of the meeting. I can see errors in it as well as opinion I disagree with. Email the board if you are concerned. I am sure they will fill you in properly. 

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We've spent the last few years training on plastic, so I'm a little surprised McGlynn is wanting to train on grass. Maybe he sees it as partly to blame for the amount of injuries we picked up or something.

How in the name of f**k is the club racking up a £900k loss though? :blink:

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4 minutes ago, Michael W said:

We've spent the last few years training on plastic, so I'm a little surprised McGlynn is wanting to train on grass. Maybe he sees it as partly to blame for the amount of injuries we picked up or something.

How in the name of f**k is the club racking up a £900k loss though? :blink:

DoF’s and his pay off, shit players on bad contracts, commercial revenue down, pay offs to shit management choices, sponsors not paying their bills, poor crowds due to poor product on the pitch………

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6 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

DoF’s and his pay off, shit players on bad contracts, commercial revenue down, pay offs to shit management choices, sponsors not paying their bills, poor crowds due to poor product on the pitch………

Signing expensive players like Griffiths, paying out for unnecessary training facilities, ringfencing critical income for upgrading plastic pitches when we are playing in in a league full of poor pitches.

let’s have some balance here please…. 

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DoF’s and his pay off, shit players on bad contracts, commercial revenue down, pay offs to shit management choices, sponsors not paying their bills, poor crowds due to poor product on the pitch………

Yes the last 5 seasons have been a financial abyss so it is/was a matter of time before the funds dried up.

It really wasn’t rocket science that we had to throw the kitchen sink (Like Killie did this season) should have been our only objective instead of kidding ourselves that we are a big club who wastes money every season on misguided clap like an infrastructure that required a DOF with coaches coming out of our backside and other drains in cash…In League One FSS.

No wonder the shit is hitting the fan now the only surprise is that it’s taken so long!
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20 minutes ago, Michael W said:

How in the name of f**k is the club racking up a £900k loss though? :blink:

Huge drop in income from away sides,  lower income from SPFL income due to final positions, no cup run (albeit not in any budget), keeping season ticket prices the same, dropping numebrs of season ticket holders - but we lost similar amounts in past years but avoided consequences due to player add-ons and Rawlins investment.

 

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18 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

DoF’s and his pay off, shit players on bad contracts, commercial revenue down, pay offs to shit management choices, sponsors not paying their bills, poor crowds due to poor product on the pitch………

Have our losses doubled under the new board or is that poster scare mongering ?

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8 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Have our losses doubled under the new board or is that poster scare mongering ?

Not reporting it factually I don’t think it is scaremongering. The majority of loss is inherited from last summers commitments. 

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20 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

Signing expensive players like Griffiths, paying out for unnecessary training facilities, ringfencing critical income for upgrading plastic pitches when we are playing in in a league full of poor pitches.

let’s have some balance here please…. 

I will give you balance

1. January spend was by an large neutral

2. LK cost is not accurate. It has a small set up cost. 

3. We have to replace the pitch next summer. That maybe grass, same as or hybrid. That call has not been made. 
 

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7 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

I will give you balance

1. January spend was by an large neutral

2. LK cost is not accurate. It has a small set up cost. 

3. We have to replace the pitch next summer. That maybe grass, same as or hybrid. That call has not been made. 
 

They said last week that they hoped to keep the pitch beyond next year.

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