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Let's look at the evidence here.

The "moaners" (of which I would say I am one of them):

- said Hughes' last season cup final papered over the cracks and we were in a poor position when he inevitably left

- said Eddie May would be a disaster of a manager after a couple of games

- said Pressley was not the man to take charge and would get us relegated

- said Houston was wrong to have declared he was leaving, leading to him losing the dressing room

- said Hartley had messed up his summer recruitment

- said McKinnon was playing no better football than Hartley and would get us relegated

- said McKinnon should have been sacked after getting us relegated

- said it was too much of a gamble to appoint two rookies as manager

- said that we were at the top of the league in spite of said rookies rather than because of them, and it would all come crumbling down (spoiler alert: it did)

- said Holt should be nowhere near our club

- said Sheerin would be a disaster of a manager after a couple of games

- have said that Rennie looks to be no improvement on Sheerin

Whereas the folk who aren't moaners have told us to trust the system and not be so negative.

How's that worked out over the past ten years?

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5 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Let's look at the evidence here.

The "moaners" (of which I would say I am one of them):

- said Hughes' last season cup final papered over the cracks and we were in a poor position when he inevitably left

- said Eddie May would be a disaster of a manager after a couple of games

- said Pressley was not the man to take charge and would get us relegated

- said Houston was wrong to have declared he was leaving, leading to him losing the dressing room

- said Hartley had messed up his summer recruitment

- said McKinnon was playing no better football than Hartley and would get us relegated

- said McKinnon should have been sacked after getting us relegated

- said it was too much of a gamble to appoint two rookies as manager

- said that we were at the top of the league in spite of said rookies rather than because of them, and it would all come crumbling down (spoiler alert: it did)

- said Holt should be nowhere near our club

- said Sheerin would be a disaster of a manager after a couple of games

- have said that Rennie looks to be no improvement on Sheerin

Whereas the folk who aren't moaners have told us to trust the system and not be so negative.

How's that worked out over the past ten years?

12 years of utter, utter horror. Leavened a little by a great side getting to the playoff final in 2016 (before collapsing horribly) and the joy of reaching, and then looking like we would win, the cup final in 2015.  A result, by the way, that has permanently altered my outlook on football. Nothing matters to me as much anymore. It genuinely hurt too much so I've stepped back my emotional investment after 42 years behind this team.

On the other side, I've successfully indoctrinated my sprogs into the Bairns in that time, and they are true blues indeed. I should probably apologise for doing that to them, and promise it'll get better sometime.

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4 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

12 years of utter, utter horror. Leavened a little by a great side getting to the playoff final in 2016 (before collapsing horribly) and the joy of reaching, and then looking like we would win, the cup final in 2015.  A result, by the way, that has permanently altered my outlook on football. Nothing matters to me as much anymore. It genuinely hurt too much so I've stepped back my emotional investment after 42 years behind this team.

On the other side, I've successfully indoctrinated my sprogs into the Bairns in that time, and they are true blues indeed. I should probably apologise for doing that to them, and promise it'll get better sometime.

When you see it written down it really is shocking.

When Hughes left we were an established SPL club, with outstanding training and youth facilities, upcoming European football, a recent cup final, and had built a reputation as an exciting team always willing to give young players a chance.

Instead of advertising the job we give it to the bloody youth coach who a) doesn't want it, b) isn't cut out for it, c) is pressurised into staying when he wants to leave, d) wait until three quarters of the season have gone before making a change, by which time it is far too late.

I'm sure folk can forgive me when I'm sceptical of anyone saying we need to give folk a chance.

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39 minutes ago, TedCrilly said:

I don’t see these 12 players as big a problem as made out. 3 are the young boys so will be on buttons, worth getting them out on loan to see what they can do. A couple are players that could be part of a title winning side (mainly from the bench). You’ll never inherit a side that is a blank canvas, adding 8 of the right players to the above would be enough. Hopefully we can somehow get rid of Hetherington, McKay and Wilson.

It's getting the excuses in early for next year in case it's another failure.

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We have simply got to weed out the dross this summer, regardless of contract length. Next season the league will be tougher with Kelty and Queen of the south arriving and possibly Dunfermline as well.

I wouldn't object to Rennie getting the gig next season but he has been helped massively by just how dire it got under Holt, Sheerin and M&M and the fact that the majority of the squad is made up of their players. In reality a 40% win ratio despite our limited squad is terrible in this division, especially considering 2 of those 4 wins have come against East Fife.

I appreciate recruitment is hard but some of the guys we have signed over the last few years have been properly hilariously bad. Hopefully the new scout can ensure at least 70% of the new recruits are up to standard, which was at about 10% under Holt (and that is being generous)

The players I would keep below from our current squad, assuming we aren't promoted:

On 01/03/2022 at 15:18, FFC 1876 said:

 

Goalkeepers
Robbie Mutch

Defenders
Ryan Williamson
Leon McCann
Paul Watson
Cammy Williamson (academy only)
Mackenzie Lemon (academy only)
Blair Sneddon (academy only)

Midfielders
Callumn Morrison
Aidan Nesbitt
Charlie Telfer
Craig McGuffie
Johnny Armstrong (academy only)
Ben Weekes (academy only)

Strikers
Leigh Griffiths
Anton Dowds
 


 

I've not bothered including Mills or Kabia as there's no way they're sticking around unfortunately. At the moment we've got quite a big squad of 24 plus the 4 guys away on loan. I'd happily trim down the quantity if that improves the quality. It's easier to offload players in the summer so hopefully we can get rid of as many of these jobbers as possible. 

The rest we'll probably be able to keep with the exceptions of Telfer and Dowds. If either of them get an offer from an aspiring Championship club I reckon they'll be away (see Aidan Connolly). On the subject of him I see he's banging our physio now. Hardly surprising considering the amount of time he spent in the treatment room whilst with us.

If we did somehow manage to get promoted I'd probably only keep Williamson, Watson, Telfer, Morrison, Griffiths & Dowds. I appreciate Raith and Partick have done well after going up without making wholescale changes but they won the league, whereas the quality of our squad is way below where it needs to be.

Edited by NavyBlueArmy1876
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Griffiths will either get his act together (unlikely) in which case he'll be poached by at the very least a Championship club, or continue to look poor and uninterested in which case it'll be a massive waste of money keeping him.

Either way, I can't see him being here next season.

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Guest TedCrilly
8 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Griffiths will either get his act together (unlikely) in which case he'll be poached by at the very least a Championship club, or continue to look poor and uninterested in which case it'll be a massive waste of money keeping him.

Either way, I can't see him being here next season.

Totally agree. I hope he comes good but against the poorer sides in the division he’s looked a mile off it during open play with some good set pieces. A bit like Alston last season but on a hefty wage. He’d be a total waste of the budget over a full season.

Edited by TedCrilly
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7 minutes ago, TedCrilly said:

Totally agree. I hope he comes good but against the poorer sides in the division he’s looked a mile off it during open play with some good set pieces. A bit like Alston last season but on a hefty wage. He’d be a total waste of the budget over a full season.

Yep. He took a good corner on Saturday for the second goal but that's not enough to justify keeping him.

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1 hour ago, Gaz said:

Yep. He took a good corner on Saturday for the second goal but that's not enough to justify keeping him.

That is the main argument against LG outlay but it might be his non-football attributes that are worthy of keeping him.

Having listened to the half-time bio of Kilmarnocks Chris Stokes on Alba during the cup game last night, what he said was obvious and interesting - 

Paraphrasing much of it but he explained that as a player he's been promoted/relegated before and when he arrived at Kilmarnock he saw a football club which didn't want to be in the league they're in and also the expectation that brought. Fans almost expect instant promotion and will tell you very quickly in games when your underperforming and unless you're relentless and can carry that expectation then it can affect players. 

It sounded very much like the situation we found ourselves in and continue to suffer from. 

Many of the players we have signed are of the required standard but perhaps they haven't had others around them who understand the expectation and demands the supporters put on Falkirk and wilted. 

Leigh Griffiths does have that experience and I think folk could see on Saturday that he is frustrated and demanding better from those around him that hasn't been in evidence for so long.

Ultimately he's judged on goals and that's where I question whether the spend is justified but as an influence on others that may be harder to put a value on.

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9 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

The NB offer was for a completely different shape of the club. 7/8 are Patrons 

It feels like we've moved much closer to what the NB were after with their investment and even gone further in some cases (e.g getting rid of Holt).  The board are hopefully encouraging further investment from those with deep pockets to help plug the gap next year.  

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2 hours ago, Gaz said:

Let's look at the evidence here.

The "moaners" (of which I would say I am one of them):

- said Hughes' last season cup final papered over the cracks and we were in a poor position when he inevitably left

- said Eddie May would be a disaster of a manager after a couple of games

- said Pressley was not the man to take charge and would get us relegated

- said Houston was wrong to have declared he was leaving, leading to him losing the dressing room

- said Hartley had messed up his summer recruitment

- said McKinnon was playing no better football than Hartley and would get us relegated

- said McKinnon should have been sacked after getting us relegated

- said it was too much of a gamble to appoint two rookies as manager

- said that we were at the top of the league in spite of said rookies rather than because of them, and it would all come crumbling down (spoiler alert: it did)

- said Holt should be nowhere near our club

- said Sheerin would be a disaster of a manager after a couple of games

- have said that Rennie looks to be no improvement on Sheerin

Whereas the folk who aren't moaners have told us to trust the system and not be so negative.

How's that worked out over the past ten years?

Sadly, would agree with pretty much all of this. I would also add that there was a number of us on here who thought that Cones was, at best, a highly questionable appointment at the time, but we were reassured of his coaching abilities because he won League Two a decade ago.

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27 minutes ago, Blame Me said:

 

Leigh Griffiths does have that experience and I think folk could see on Saturday that he is frustrated and demanding better from those around him that hasn't been in evidence for so long.

Ultimately he's judged on goals and that's where I question whether the spend is justified but as an influence on others that may be harder to put a value on.

On this specific point, I think Griffiths is judged by more than goals, which includes the influence on others.

We were pretty awful for most of the EF game but, arguably, he was the difference between a deeply troubling draw and a victory. So he was worth his wage, and some. I'd say that's what Griffiths brings - the chance to turn things round even when are are playing mince. Plus, as a fan, it's just a bit more exciting when he's there. 

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45 minutes ago, Blame Me said:

That is the main argument against LG outlay but it might be his non-football attributes that are worthy of keeping him.

Having listened to the half-time bio of Kilmarnocks Chris Stokes on Alba during the cup game last night, what he said was obvious and interesting - 

Paraphrasing much of it but he explained that as a player he's been promoted/relegated before and when he arrived at Kilmarnock he saw a football club which didn't want to be in the league they're in and also the expectation that brought. Fans almost expect instant promotion and will tell you very quickly in games when your underperforming and unless you're relentless and can carry that expectation then it can affect players. 

It sounded very much like the situation we found ourselves in and continue to suffer from. 

Many of the players we have signed are of the required standard but perhaps they haven't had others around them who understand the expectation and demands the supporters put on Falkirk and wilted. 

Leigh Griffiths does have that experience and I think folk could see on Saturday that he is frustrated and demanding better from those around him that hasn't been in evidence for so long.

Ultimately he's judged on goals and that's where I question whether the spend is justified but as an influence on others that may be harder to put a value on.

Good post and agree with the sentiment re winners/leaders dragging up the levels of performance from others. 

However, don’t think it should require a Griffiths level of player to do that. Anyone with any leadership skills whatsoever would do that for us. Unfortunately we haven’t signed any of those for about 4 years - more woeful recruitment. 

Griffiths being furious at some of the shite he saw v East Fife was refreshing to watch 

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8 hours ago, Bairn in Exile said:

Are you Hope Street Walker in disguise?

Profiting From Failure: The Wash & Rinse Trade, Part I - MartinKronicle

Nope just another realist calling it as it is. The club will continue in this spiral of decline until we stop making the same mistakes. Hire manager* - Paying off duff players - Signing another batch of duff players -  Sack manager  - repeat*

The main reason the required quality won't work for Falkirk is because of that reputation.

If you cannot bring yourself to accept that then there's not much anybody can say to shake you into the reality of the situation.

 

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8 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

Nope just another realist calling it as it is. The club will continue in this spiral of decline until we stop making the same mistakes. Hire manager* - Paying off duff players - Signing another batch of duff players -  Sack manager  - repeat*

The main reason the required quality won't work for Falkirk is because of that reputation.

If you cannot bring yourself to accept that then there's not much anybody can say to shake you into the reality of the situation.

 

I am perfectly aware that we are in the shitter, it is just that it gets a bit boring and predictable when posters repeat the same things over and over and over again. We know the situation, no need to post about it dozens of times.

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11 minutes ago, Bairn in Exile said:

I am perfectly aware that we are in the shitter, it is just that it gets a bit boring and predictable when posters repeat the same things over and over and over again. We know the situation, no need to post about it dozens of times.

The problem we’ve got is that many who watch the club are reasonably satisfied with the shitefest we’ve become. However I will agree that some on here ( include myself) get so fcked off when many fans accept this week after week.
Yes we ain’t got the level of finance or support like the top seven/eight clubs, but accepting what we’ve witnessed and have become for the past few years is at its end game for me.

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7 minutes ago, Springfield said:

The problem we’ve got is that many who watch the club are reasonably satisfied with the shitefest we’ve become. However I will agree that some on here ( include myself) get so fcked off when many fans accept this week after week.
Yes we ain’t got the level of finance or support like the top seven/eight clubs, but accepting what we’ve witnessed and have become for the past few years is at its end game for me.

Sorry, but @HopeStreetWalker and yourself have totally misunderstood the point that I am trying to make. Historically, Hope Street Walker posts the same things over and over again, about how nobody will want to sign for us etc. He is like a broken record. It gets boring. @Back Post Misses has started to repeat his posts over and over again only his are about how Holt has signed a pile of dross on 3 year deals and so on and that Gary Deans is the devil incarnate. They only needed to post about their personal bugbears once or twice, we get the picture and understand their concerns.

Let me assure you, I am far from satisfied with where we are as a club at the moment. In fact, neither the new board nor Rennie have won me over and I am deeply concerned where we could end up, part-time and playing in the Lowland League.

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1 hour ago, Proudtobeabairn said:

It feels like we've moved much closer to what the NB were after with their investment and even gone further in some cases (e.g getting rid of Holt).  The board are hopefully encouraging further investment from those with deep pockets to help plug the gap next year.  

It is nothing like the NB offer in terms of structure. 

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7 minutes ago, Bairn in Exile said:

Sorry, but @HopeStreetWalker and yourself have totally misunderstood the point that I am trying to make. Historically, Hope Street Walker posts the same things over and over again, about how nobody will want to sign for us etc. He is like a broken record. It gets boring. @Back Post Misses has started to repeat his posts over and over again only his are about how Holt has signed a pile of dross on 3 year deals and so on and that Gary Deans is the devil incarnate. They only needed to post about their personal bugbears once or twice, we get the picture and understand their concerns.

Let me assure you, I am far from satisfied with where we are as a club at the moment. In fact, neither the new board nor Rennie have won me over and I am deeply concerned where we could end up, part-time and playing in the Lowland League.

Ok

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