The Falkirk FC Thread

[Blame Me]

24 minutes ago, Russ said:

I’m absolutely no having Jamie MacDonald as a good signing.

But for comparison he also signed Alex Cooper, David Smith, Taylor Morgan, Alex Harris, Ryan Sinnamon, Owen Tudor Jones, Alan Maybury, John Rankin, Rory Boulding, Kevin McCann, Alex Tokarczyk, Fraser Aird, Luca Gasparotto, James Craigen, Joe McKee, Liam Henderson, Lewis Kidd.

Now I’m disputing that, apart from his last few months in charge, that Houston was an excellent manage for us but his recruitment was mainly terrible. And most of us were even highly critical of him for it at the time.

I was probably critical too at the time 

However, in fullness of time and with hindsight you can appreciate why those signings were made. 

Had he been given what subsequent managers have I don't think we'd be lower than Championship.

Can anyone disagree?

Edited December 8, 2021 by Blame Me

[roman_bairn]

I’m absolutely no having Jamie MacDonald as a good signing.

But for comparison he also signed Alex Cooper, David Smith, Taylor Morgan, Alex Harris, Ryan Sinnamon, Owen Tudor Jones, Alan Maybury, John Rankin, Rory Boulding, Kevin McCann, Alex Tokarczyk, Fraser Aird, Luca Gasparotto, James Craigen, Joe McKee, Liam Henderson, Lewis Kidd.

Now I’m disputing that, apart from his last few months in charge, that Houston was an excellent manage for us but his recruitment was mainly terrible. And most of us were even highly critical of him for it at the time.

There’s a few in your list of terrible signings that I think were more than decent players. Unfortunately there are also other factors that contribute to them not fitting in. However that’s true for any managers signings.
Ask the Dundee supporters about Hartley’s signings for them they’d tell you the same.
I don’t think Houston’s signings are as bad as many keep making out on here.

[Russ]

I was probably critical too at the time [emoji850]
However, in fullness of time and with hindsight you can appreciate why those signings were made. 
Had he been given what subsequent managers have I don't think we'd be lower than Championship.
Can anyone disagree?

As an actual manager and being able to get the most out of players he was very good. But I’d argue that Hartleys January recruitment (before he lost his mind in the summer) was a better transfer window than any under Houston.

[GeordieBairn]

5 minutes ago, Russ said:

As an actual manager and being able to get the most out of players he was very good. But I’d argue that Hartleys January recruitment (before he lost his mind in the summer) was a better transfer window than any under Houston.

Would have to agree. Players like Jakubiak and  Andy Nelson pish on the strikers we have atm. 

[Shadwell Dog]

Not every signing works out but to be successful your vast majority must and that's been our biggest problem since Hughes's last season in charge. Every season our duds have vastly outnumbered our successes and that's why we've struggled so much. Look at the managers that have won us titles over the past 30 years. Jeffries how many of his signings we're rotten in his two title winning sides? McCall how many players did he bring in that were honking? Hughes in the season we went up again how many bad signings were there. You are talking one perhaps two at most whilst if you drew up two lists one for successes and one for duds for each of the last ten or 12 seasons or so how many of those seasons would have the success list as longer than the duds. I'd be shocked if any of them were like that . The clubs been hamstrung by terrible signings for over a decade and until that is corrected we are going nowhere fast.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Shadwell Dog

[Believe The Hype]

24 minutes ago, Senator Frimpton said:

You wouldn't have him in charge of recruitment obviously, but coaching and player development. Whatever Alex Smith's job title was essentially. Picking up players would be between head of scouting and head coach. 

Worrying when the highest footballing authority at the club is an absolute chancer like Gary Holt. 

Moot point we even require a DoF/SD but more football brains wouldn't go amiss

I agree I think houstie would be nice to have around, an experienced ear and shoulder to help with football matters I. E. Tactics, discipline, etc etc. However I think or at least there should be far more than just that as a remit for a sporting director. I also wouldn't throw the toys out the pram if he was brought in to steady the ship until the end of the season. Rather him than rice purely based on the only factor that should come into it, and that's proven success and experience as a manager. 

[Gollum]

3 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Not every signing works out but to be successful your vast majority must and that's been our biggest problem since Hughes's last season in charge. Every season our duds have vastly outnumbered our successes and that's why we've struggled so much. Look at the managers that have won us titles over the past 30 years. Jeffries how many of his signings we're rotten in his two title winning sides? McCall how many players did he bring in that were honking? Hughes in the season we went up again how many bad signings were there. You are talking one perhaps two at most whilst if you drew up two lists one for successes and one for duds for each of the last ten or 12 seasons or so how many of those seasons would have the success list as longer than the duds. I'd be shocked if any of them were like that . The clubs been hamstrung by terrible signings for over a decade and until that is corrected we are going nowhere fast.

 

At least for the last couple of seasons with full squad turnover, I do wonder how much is the players doing and how much is the structure at the club affecting performances. The statistical likelihood of a near 100% dud rate is low when considering most of our players have shown the basic capability of playing football at other clubs and higher levels.

If I look at my summer opinions, my list for Gary Holt would look like this:

Positive reception/impression: Nesbit, Williamson, McCann, (extending Morrison)

Neutral: Martin, Krasniqi, Hetherington, Lemon, McDaid, McGuffie, Ruth, Ompreom

Negative: Wilson, Seb Ross, Holt, McKay

In short, a few players that folk thought were poor/below the standard signings at the time, a couple of positives and a whole lot of unknowns. That's what most transfer windows look like in at the time and at this level, it's just that all of our neutrals and most of our positives turn to shite over the season. Was Alston a poor signing for example?

We're clearly making it hard for folk to work well at club, be it due to the structure or atmosphere. That doesn't make our success rate any better, I just think the core reason for that lies elsewhere than just recruitment.

On a sidenote, I can barely name 5 players from the last 5 years that extended their initial contract at Falkirk. Morrison, Dixon, Miller and perhaps Mutch? Telfer? We sign competent players, turn them to shite, write them off in 6 months and then hand them to teams in our league or even a league above.

[Reggie Perrin]

1 hour ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Yes. Which was the platform for the inevitable Vaulks screamer and Alston top bins raker that would have sealed the win for us.

By jove, we would have applauded in a vigorous fashion. One or two young impetuous types might have got out of their seats to show their approval.

And we all would have been on our feet to savour the cup presentation unlike the day trippers from Inverness who were on their way back to their cars when the cup was being lifted.

 

 

Not bitter at all…

[Blame Me]

10 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Not every signing works out but to be successful your vast majority must and that's been our biggest problem since Hughes's last season in charge. Every season our duds have vastly outnumbered our successes and that's why we've struggled so much. Look at the managers that have won us titles over the past 30 years. Jeffries how many of his signings we're rotten in his two title winning sides? McCall how many players did he bring in that were honking? Hughes in the season we went up again how many bad signings were there. You are talking one perhaps two at most whilst if you drew up two lists one for successes and one for duds for each of the last ten or 12 seasons or so how many of those seasons would have the success list as longer than the duds. I'd be shocked if any of them were like that . The clubs been hamstrung by terrible signings for over a decade and until that is corrected we are going nowhere fast.

 

Tend to agree.

We know it; the club know it and dogs in the street know it but a core of competent players is required - a spine, if you will.

We need players in most positions who survive longer than one window and who are consistently good* and almost become part of the furniture.

They need to be supplemented by better or in-form players - I make that distinction as some average guys can make a difference and don't have to be exceptional every week.

It does seem like every managerial change lately has brought a new defensive pairing, different full-backs, midfields and strikers!

I'm also in agreement with @Gollum. 

* I am calling out Paul Dixon here. I know he's rated but he's been up-and-down for me in all the time he's been with us. Bad games are masked by others being much worse as we've been discussing.

[bairn88]

11 minutes ago, Blame Me said:

Tend to agree.

We know it; the club know it and dogs in the street know it but a core of competent players is required - a spine, if you will.

We need players in most positions who survive longer than one window and who are consistently good* and almost become part of the furniture.

They need to be supplemented by better or in-form players - I make that distinction as some average guys can make a difference and don't have to be exceptional every week.

It does seem like every managerial change lately has brought a new defensive pairing, different full-backs, midfields and strikers!

I'm also in agreement with @Gollum. 

* I am calling out Paul Dixon here. I know he's rated but he's been up-and-down for me in all the time he's been with us. Bad games are masked by others being much worse as we've been discussing.

I refuse to call out Dixon too much when his defensive partners have included Ben Hall, Brad McKay, Gary Miller, Scott Mercer, Mark Durnan, Gregor Buchanan. 

If we had any sort of compotent recruitment he’d just be a steady centre half with a much younger pacier partner 

[bridge of allan bairn]

Really don't get the houston (and often yogi) bashing on here. other than the 2 spells with Jeffries and McCall nothing has matched their periods in charge for excitement in the 35 plus years I've been going.

I tend to measure managers on how keen I'm to get to games, and whether I go home and away. houstie and yogi easily top 5 managerial periods for me following falkirk 

Totten period too possibly makes up the 5

Edited December 8, 2021 by bridge of allan bairn

[Gaz]

39 minutes ago, bridge of allan bairn said:

Really don't get the houston (and often yogi) bashing on here. other than the 2 spells with Jeffries and McCall nothing has matched their periods in charge for excitement in the 35 plus years I've been going.

I tend to measure managers on how keen I'm to get to games, and whether I go home and away. houstie and yogi easily top 5 managerial periods for me following falkirk 

Totten period too possibly makes up the 5

I don't think anyone's particularly bashing Houston, for like 90% of his tenure he was an excellent coach and manager. It just ended poorly.

[Bigbri Bairn]

Most managers reigns end poorly as the vast majority are sacked. McCalls team and Jeffries being the exception. I hated the way JJ left. Scunnering!

[bridge of allan bairn]

14 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I don't think anyone's particularly bashing Houston, for like 90% of his tenure he was an excellent coach and manager. It just ended poorly.

That's the thing, it rarely ends great with managers, they either have a great period and get snapped up (Jeffries, mccall, yogi) or they do really well for years and can't maintain it, for a number of reasons (houston) or they get sacked. I prefer to rate managers on how they've done overall than their last weeks/months. as we can see in recent years these halcyon times are more rare than common so I prefer to err on the glass half full side!

[AL-FFC]

David Oliver done an article for basically what's going wrong at Falkirk and can they fix it in his article said the average length of time for a Falkirk manager is 5 days over a year 

[LatapyBairn.]

2 hours ago, Senator Frimpton said:

You wouldn't have him in charge of recruitment obviously, but coaching and player development. Whatever Alex Smith's job title was essentially. Picking up players would be between head of scouting and head coach. 

Worrying when the highest footballing authority at the club is an absolute chancer like Gary Holt. 

Moot point we even require a DoF/SD but more football brains wouldn't go amiss

100% this! The part time role Alex Smith operated was quite sufficient. Overseeing things and offering a footballing perspective to the suits upstairs. Player recruitment should be ran via a proper scouting system with the final decision being made by the manager, the youth coaching  should be Ian Fergu’s department aided by part time coaches and volunteers. Our CEO should also be involved in overseeing youth development given his background. We really have properly over complicated everything costing the club a fortune in the process.

[Shadwell Dog]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

At least for the last couple of seasons with full squad turnover, I do wonder how much is the players doing and how much is the structure at the club affecting performances. The statistical likelihood of a near 100% dud rate is low when considering most of our players have shown the basic capability of playing football at other clubs and higher levels.

If I look at my summer opinions, my list for Gary Holt would look like this:

Positive reception/impression: Nesbit, Williamson, McCann, (extending Morrison)

Neutral: Martin, Krasniqi, Hetherington, Lemon, McDaid, McGuffie, Ruth, Ompreom

Negative: Wilson, Seb Ross, Holt, McKay

In short, a few players that folk thought were poor/below the standard signings at the time, a couple of positives and a whole lot of unknowns. That's what most transfer windows look like in at the time and at this level, it's just that all of our neutrals and most of our positives turn to shite over the season. Was Alston a poor signing for example?

We're clearly making it hard for folk to work well at club, be it due to the structure or atmosphere. That doesn't make our success rate any better, I just think the core reason for that lies elsewhere than just recruitment.

On a sidenote, I can barely name 5 players from the last 5 years that extended their initial contract at Falkirk. Morrison, Dixon, Miller and perhaps Mutch? Telfer? We sign competent players, turn them to shite, write them off in 6 months and then hand them to teams in our league or even a league above.

Few of the players we sign and punt have gone on to much bigger and better things elsewhere though. 

Take the last two years.

Durnan, sammon are at alloa below us in the league.

Leitch is struggling for a game at cove.

Gomis Clyde

Francis is at Bradford pa whoever they are.

Buchanan and maclean are at sons.

Longridge and Doyle at queen's park

Mcshane is at darvel

Tidser kelty hearts

Todd struggling for a game at QoS

Kelly at livie but been awful according to livi fans.

Connolly we wanted to keep but went to Raith.

Alston at Killie.

So you've got Kelly at livi where I doubt he'll stay long.

Connolly at Raith but he wasnt punted  he choose to go elsewhere 

Todd who will be moving down the league's shortly and Alston who has done fine at Killie but to me it was always the way he was used that was the problem and the players he was stuck playing with. Miller and gomis were basically finished. He's playing with far better midfielders at Killie.

Not many of these are the standard required to win leagues even at this level. Our recruitment has been awful with poor player after poor player being signed whilst the few decent ones are dragged down by the dross they have to play alongside.

 

 

[Shadwell Dog]

43 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I don't think anyone's particularly bashing Houston, for like 90% of his tenure he was an excellent coach and manager. It just ended poorly.

Agree Houstie was an excellent coach but his sides were getting worse by the year due to good players being replaced by piss poor ones.  Everyone and their dug knew Alex Harris was shite but Houstie went and signed him and loy as our two marquee signings that year and both flopped miserably.  It was downhill all the way then. It was going to happen at some point as you can't keep losing class players like vaulks and Alston  and bring in duds like Rankin and Harris or things aren't going to end well 

[NUMBER 7]

The tide turned against Houston quite quickly.

He didn't get anything from Loy on his return

He didn't get anything from Austin who had show promise the previous season. The first game against St Mirren we should have led 3-0 before they equalised and Austin was the main culprit.

Sibbald should have been made to see out the last year of his contract.

[knee jerk reaction]

Would anyone explain how we as a club replace a player like Valks? Ok Houston could've done better than Rankin but we were never replacing Valks with the same quality of player. That was the problem we had with Houston not players had downed tools or he lost the dressing room (listen to Mark Kerr on the hope street podcast) rather we lost quality all over the pitch that was almost irreplaceable on our budget unless we got incredibly lucky, instead we were very unlucky when other factors affected signings like Loy.