The Falkirk FC Thread

[Shadwell Dog]

As  I stated already the forth valley academy was basically the Falkirk academy in everything but name. Stenny had reduced funding as they hit money troubles so where it originally was players attached to each club under the forth valley umbrella that was changed to Falkirk getting first pick on any player as we were putting in the vast majority of funding so I don't see the issue with whether these guys were funding a continuation of the forth valley academy as it was.

[Shadwell Dog]

3 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

 

The offer was made the day AFTER they announced it and they wanted nothing to do with anyone funding it externally. In fact the Chair at the time tried to stop a club director meeting some of those involved

 

At the EGM I seem to remember Andy Thomson who was the main finance person on the board saying that he knew virtually nothing about the details of the offer to finance the academy.  So the rest of the  bod were knocking the offer back and saying it wasn't financially viable without even consulting the man that deals with the finance. That to me summed those clowns up.

[Hank von Hell]

6 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

 

It was never discussed at any AGM in detail. They said nothing and shut it 4 weeks later.

 

I was wondering about this claim it was discussed in great detail at the AGM.

As far as I recall they pulled the plug just before Christmas (heartless as well as  incompetent) and no one had a scooby it was coming , well apart from Gordon Waddell who the news was leaked to the day before.

Have I got this wrong?      

[Believe The Hype]

10 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

 

I will tell you exactly as I was involved in helping fund it.

They were guaranteed 3 years. They were guaranteed the money Falkirk were contributing. They only money proposed to go to the Academy was a cut of any transfers the club made to ensure that the Academy became self funding in time.

The club turned round and said to us that you can’t keep it going as they would not provide a pathway (which was needed to keep SFA funding support) to the professional ranks.

This was a calculated decision proposed by two people and back by the Board and MSG. It was an act of vandalism that has set our club back 10+ years.

 

Being told you are not elite status and can't compete with the those who are was surely a factor. The fault can also be thrown at the door of these sfa decision makers which surely forced the hand of our own. 

[Guest]

Being told you are not elite status and can't compete with the those who are was surely a factor. The fault can also be thrown at the door of these sfa decision makers which surely forced the hand of our own. 

Not if you spoke to any of those people who were involved in the Academy was that an issue. They were extremely confident that they would keep players and be able to recruit in the back of our past reputation and our history of giving lads a way into the first team quicker than larger clubs.

The reality was they were hiding behind all sorts of excuses and lying to the fans about the cost because all they saw was the “Brentford” model. Falkirk could not have been further away from Brentford’s ability to do Brentford if we tried.

Short sighted disgraceful decision whatever way it is dressed up as are any attempts to defend or justify it.

[latapythelegend]

6 hours ago, Hank von Hell said:

I was wondering about this claim it was discussed in great detail at the AGM.

As far as I recall they pulled the plug just before Christmas (heartless as well as  incompetent) and no one had a scooby it was coming , well apart from Gordon Waddell who the news was leaked to the day before.

Have I got this wrong?      

Apologies, forgot this was the EGM as opposed to AGM.

[Shadwell Dog]

1 hour ago, Believe The Hype said:

Being told you are not elite status and can't compete with the those who are was surely a factor. The fault can also be thrown at the door of these sfa decision makers which surely forced the hand of our own. 

The only folk saying that were Campbell and Lang.  The likes of At Mirren, st Johnstone and Raith have all proved very successful at bringing through excellent young players despite not being elite academies and in raiths case not even in the second level of academy status or funding.

 It was Campbell's master plan and nothing was going to get in its way. He was getting paid a decent wad and had to justify it by doing something. However, anyone with one iota of football knowledge would know the way to get promotion is to appoint the right manager and have a successful recruitment system in place. If you don't have both of these it doesn't matter how much money you fling at the first team it won't work as has been proven the case over the past few years.  Killing the academy was never going to improve our chances of getting into the top flight .

 

[Shadwell Dog]

6 hours ago, Hank von Hell said:

I was wondering about this claim it was discussed in great detail at the AGM.

As far as I recall they pulled the plug just before Christmas (heartless as well as  incompetent) and no one had a scooby it was coming , well apart from Gordon Waddell who the news was leaked to the day before.

Have I got this wrong?      

I remember it being raised at the AGM prior to the closure and being categorically told there was no plans to shut the academy. It was then raised by a fan whose father worked in the academy and had heard rumours at a meet the manager night and again was dismissed out of hand with the questioner told he was talking nonsense.  A couple of months later the doors closed for good. Fans and shareholders being treated with usual utter contempt.

[Believe The Hype]

1 hour ago, Shadwell Dog said:

The only folk saying that were Campbell and Lang.  The likes of At Mirren, st Johnstone and Raith have all proved very successful at bringing through excellent young players despite not being elite academies and in raiths case not even in the second level of academy status or funding.

 It was Campbell's master plan and nothing was going to get in its way. He was getting paid a decent wad and had to justify it by doing something. However, anyone with one iota of football knowledge would know the way to get promotion is to appoint the right manager and have a successful recruitment system in place. If you don't have both of these it doesn't matter how much money you fling at the first team it won't work as has been proven the case over the past few years.  Killing the academy was never going to improve our chances of getting into the top flight .

 

So what you are exactly saying is that promotion is all about the right manager and recruitment. Absolutely f**k all to do with having an academy or not. Which is exectly my point. Let's have it right, if we had a competent manager in place who had the backing Hartley did to recruit well nobody would be moaning. The academy was hardly producing world beaters anymore and was rightly scrapped. In a horrible fashion? Yes. But logically the correct decision. Its only hindsight that's putting yous on a high horse

[Guest]

So what you are exactly saying is that promotion is all about the right manager and recruitment. Absolutely f**k all to do with having an academy or not. Which is exectly my point. Let's have it right, if we had a competent manager in place who had the backing Hartley did to recruit well nobody would be moaning. The academy was hardly producing world beaters anymore and was rightly scrapped. In a horrible fashion? Yes. But logically the correct decision. Its only hindsight that's putting yous on a high horse

The Academy did take a hit when moved to FV. That was another f**k up by the Board and lost us ground. However it was producing again at the younger age groups as you can now see. 7/8 now in first team squads.

It was a horrific short term mindless act of vandalism, made even worse as they had offers of funding.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

Can people please, please, please stop quoting ‘the Brentford Model’ when referring to Hartley’s failed time as our manager.

Brentford bought and sold, to name a few, Watkins, Maupay and Benrahma for c.£70m. They will also likely sell Ivan Toney for c.£40m. This is not what that odious little p***k Hartley done. He bought Lewis, ToE and Dallison, again to name a few, then freed them because they were totally pish. Brentford’s model works, Hartley’s didn’t.

Likening this to what Brentford have and continue to achieve is making me feel physically sick.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

Scott Allan away to ICT on loan. Potentially a cracking signing for them but sad to see Allan’s career going, football wise, at a trajectory like Riordan and O’Connor.

[Shadwell Dog]

1 hour ago, Believe The Hype said:

So what you are exactly saying is that promotion is all about the right manager and recruitment. Absolutely f**k all to do with having an academy or not. Which is exectly my point. Let's have it right, if we had a competent manager in place who had the backing Hartley did to recruit well nobody would be moaning. The academy was hardly producing world beaters anymore and was rightly scrapped. In a horrible fashion? Yes. But logically the correct decision. Its only hindsight that's putting yous on a high horse

Hindsight? I said at the time it was a dreadful decision and I certainly haven't changed my mind since. An academy is a serious asset but it can't work on its own. Doesn't matter how good your young players are coming through if you surround them with shit senior signings like Pressley did for years.   Our budget will always be limited . An academy allows you to perform above that by producing a standard of player you couldnt normally afford and providing finance to allow you to sign players normally out with your budget.It was not the reason we hadn't been promoted to the top flight by any means. It provided extra cash to the managers budget and some excellent talent . It wasn't the academy's fault that manager after manager spent that cash on dross.  With the right manager in place , the right senior recruitment in place and an academy providing good young players for the first team and extra cash for the budget that's how you get into the top flight and stay there. St Johnstone have been doing it for years.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Shadwell Dog

[Shadwell Dog]

Just now, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Scott Allan away to ICT on loan. Potentially a cracking signing for them but sad to see Allan’s career going, football wise, at a trajectory like Riordan and O’Connor.

With his illness issues it can't be easy for him to perform at top level every week in the premiership. 

[FFC 1876]

4 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Scott Allan away to ICT on loan. Potentially a cracking signing for them but sad to see Allan’s career going, football wise, at a trajectory like Riordan and O’Connor.

Allan got a lot of plaudits that season with Hibs but when we played against them but for me it was always Liam Henderson who was the standout. For that reason i'm not that surprised Allan's career has peaked at Hibs.

Edited March 27, 2021 by FFC 1876

[Shadwell Dog]

2 minutes ago, FFC 1876 said:

Allan got a lot of plaudits that season with Hibs but when we played against them but for me it was always Liam Henderson who was the standout. For that reason i'm not that surprised Allan's career has peaked at Hibs.

Don't think they played in the same side in fact I think it was the money from selling Allen that allowed them to sign mcginn and  get Henderson on loan.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Shadwell Dog

[latapythelegend]

15 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Can people please, please, please stop quoting ‘the Brentford Model’ when referring to Hartley’s failed time as our manager.

Brentford bought and sold, to name a few, Watkins, Maupay and Benrahma for c.£70m. They will also likely sell Ivan Toney for c.£40m. This is not what that odious little p***k Hartley done. He bought Lewis, ToE and Dallison, again to name a few, then freed them because they were totally pish. Brentford’s model works, Hartley’s didn’t.

Likening this to what Brentford have and continue to achieve is making me feel physically sick.

The Brentford model was literally what they called it and tried to replicate it. Hartley said as much himself. I'm sure if his signings turned out to be a success then players would have been sold on for some value. Just because it was a failure doesn't mean it wasn't there intentions to copy it! They just didn't have the manager, players or intelligence on the board to implement it!

[Bairnardo]

Don't think they played in the same side in fact I think it was the money from selling Allen that allowed them to sign mcginn and  get Henderson on loan.

Yeah, Allan was class for Hibs. The comparison that I always remember making the season after was that despite the raving about McGinn (which has obviously been proved to have been correct) Henderson and McGeouch were the heartbeat of that his team.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

9 minutes ago, FFC 1876 said:

Allan got a lot of plaudits that season with Hibs but when we played against them but for me it was always Liam Henderson who was the standout. For that reason i'm not that surprised Allan's career has peaked at Hibs.

Henderson played in a different side mate. He played with McGeough and McGinn.

Agree he was outstanding that season and not surprised he moved onto better things.

[Grangemouth Bairn]

8 minutes ago, latapythelegend said:

The Brentford model was literally what they called it and tried to replicate it. Hartley said as much himself. I'm sure if his signings turned out to be a success then players would have been sold on for some value. Just because it was a failure doesn't mean it wasn't there intentions to copy it! They just didn't have the manager, players or intelligence on the board to implement it!

We copied a successfully brand 3 years ago and fucked up - we need to move on.