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2 minutes ago, keithgy said:

We still have the strongest squad in L1 though

I'm not sure we have a squad suited to winning this league though. Too many bottlers. Too many that when the going gets tough down tools. Not enough energy in the side as it is and the managements inability to resolve the lack of young legs in the middle of the park is still obvious.  Add to that a striking unit that have scored  4 goals between them and im not sure our squad is the envy of the league I'm afraid.

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Granted, but our status as a full-time club will mean we are naturally able to attract better* players regardless of who is the manager, by virtue of being able to offer more money / longer contracts.
*on paper

You could make the same argument for Partick Thistle....
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9 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

I’m genuinely not interested in trying to convince you to change position. Your mind has been made up for a long time.
My only question to you is where are we in the table this season and where were we last season under McKinnon?…

We were top of the league this time last season under McKinnon at the same stage.

EDIT: No we weren't (thanks @Shadwell Dog). I've gotten mixed up with the daft dates for the season this year, thought we had played 12 games.

6 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

You could make the same argument for Partick Thistle....

I'm not interested in Partick Thistle.

Edited by Gaz
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12 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:


I’m genuinely not interested in trying to convince you to change position. Your mind has been made up for a long time.
My only question to you is where are we in the table this season and where were we last season under McKinnon?…

After 11 games with McKinnon we were 2 points worse off. Our goal diff was a lot better though .Raith had  21 points which is exactly the same as we have now. All much of a muchness to be honest . If you had McKinnon's record this year we'd be equal top with cove and if you had m and m's last season we'd be equal top with Raith.  Certainly nowhere near the improvement we should be seeing this season after last year's farce. McKinnon was dire and so far m and m haven't been much better.

Edited by Shadwell Dog
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I'm not having a dig at you specifically here @roman_bairn, but there have been posters like you coming out with the same stuff you do for the past ten years - that those of us who have genuine concerns about where the club is heading have been in the wrong, and we should have faith that it's going to come good. Right from the Eddie May debacle where we had posters convinced for months and months that he was the right man for the job and was going to turn it round.

It hasn't worked before now. You'll forgive me if I don't believe it's going to work this time.

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2 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I'm not having a dig at you specifically here @roman_bairn, but there have been posters like you coming out with the same stuff you do for the past ten years - that those of us who have genuine concerns about where the club is heading have been in the wrong, and we should have faith that it's going to come good. Right from the Eddie May debacle where we had posters convinced for months and months that he was the right man for the job and was going to turn it round.

It hasn't worked before now. You'll forgive me if I don't believe it's going to work this time.

They'd still be calling us knicker wetters if we were  playing Berwick in the league 2  relegation playoff. 

You're dead right people keep saying don't worry your going over board with your criticism as we drop further and further down the leagues. I wonder at what stage they'll wake up and finally realise we're in freefall.

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5 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

They'd still be calling us knicker wetters if we were  playing Berwick in the league 2  relegation playoff. 

You're dead right people keep saying don't worry your going over board with your criticism as we drop further and further down the leagues. I wonder at what stage they'll wake up and finally realise we're in freefall.

A few years ago I started noticing that there were more and more fans who genuinely didn't seem to care about the result as long as it got them out the house for a couple of hours every other Saturday. "Ah well never mind always next week COYB expect the unexpected". Over the past couple of years I reckon the number of folk that fall into that category has kept rising.

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11 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

After 11 games with McKinnon we were 2 points worse off. Our goal diff was a lot better though .Raith had  21 points which is exactly the same as we have now. All much of a muchness to be honest . If you had McKinnon's record this year we'd be equal top with cove and if you had m and m's last season we'd be equal top with Raith.  Certainly nowhere near the improvement we should be seeing this season.after last year's farce.

First of all I’m not convinced M&M are the answer. However the only benefit of the doubt I’m prepared to give them is that they’ve gone through the first third of the season without our main goal threat. Where would we have been at this point last year if you took McManus out the team?

Aidan Keena was signed to be this years McManus. Morrison aside, the rest of the recruitment hasn’t been good enough which leaves us in a position where (in my opinion) our whole season (and M&M’s future) now relies on him. If he scores the goals we’ll probably be ok, if he doesn’t we won’t.

That’s not a position I’m comfortable with and the next few weeks are huge for us and our management team. 

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19 minutes ago, MrDust said:

My claim ?

M&M had a better record versus Raith over the period 

Ray had us out the play off positions 

We are currently top, so they are the problem obviously

You stated that our failure was "due to Ray and Covid". When I provided three results and performances that were obtained long after McKinnon was sacked you then replied about Ray having us out of the play-offs. What, for one week? We were fourth in the table when McKinnon was sacked. Their "better record against Raith Rovers" amounts to two draws as opposed to a draw and a defeat. A startling improvement. And yes, on the basis of numerous performances and results under them, going back to their third game in charge against EF over a year ago, they are most definitely a problem.

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Lifted from the Falkirk Herald —

Opposite number McCracken was honest in his assessment.

He said: "They deserved to win and we deserved nothing out of the game.

"If we had got an equaliser it would have been unfair on East Fife because they worked hard on their shape and just worked harder than us.

"They created opportunities but we had about 10 minutes at the start of the second half and that was about it.

"The goals we lost were disappointing.

"We've told the players that, just because we're at the top of the league, nothing is done yet.

"We still have games to play and there are loads of points to be won and lost."

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2 minutes ago, Gaz said:

A few years ago I started noticing that there were more and more fans who genuinely didn't seem to care about the result as long as it got them out the house for a couple of hours every other Saturday. "Ah well never mind always next week COYB expect the unexpected". Over the past couple of years I reckon the number of folk that fall into that category has kept rising.

This is true.

I think it's just year upon year of utter failure or near miss and crushing disappointment.  It's a defence mechanism.

I know for a fact I've never been the same since 2015.

You won't catch me coming away with all those simpering cliches though.

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1 minute ago, AGPar said:

You stated that our failure was "due to Ray and Covid". When I provided three results and performances that were obtained long after McKinnon was sacked you then replied about Ray having us out of the play-offs. What, for one week? We were fourth in the table when McKinnon was sacked. Their "better record against Raith Rovers" amounts to two draws as opposed to a draw and a defeat. A startling improvement. And yes, on the basis of numerous performances and results under them, going back to their third game in charge against EF over a year ago, they are most definitely a problem.

The current encumbants need to take 3 points from the next 3 games to better McKinnon's points total when he got the bullet.  Not sure we could take that as any kind of success mind you but any less and surely they have to go.

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I don’t think M&M are going to handle pressure well. Lose the top spot in this league, and they’ll never get it back.

All confidence and momentum is now gone, and a clear message is out there to the rest of the league that we are there for the taking.

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I'm not having a dig at you specifically here [mention=2605]roman_bairn[/mention], but there have been posters like you coming out with the same stuff you do for the past ten years - that those of us who have genuine concerns about where the club is heading have been in the wrong, and we should have faith that it's going to come good. Right from the Eddie May debacle where we had posters convinced for months and months that he was the right man for the job and was going to turn it round.
It hasn't worked before now. You'll forgive me if I don't believe it's going to work this time.

Yes I do think you are unfairly branding me here.
It’s the last 3 years that have been my concern and the constant change of strategy.
I don’t expect you’d remember but I was never a fan of Hartley and stated my concerns that the initiative could take us into a dark place that it would take us a long time to recover from.
My concern is that it’s exactly that constant reactive change that’s put us where we are today.
Do forgive me if I’m reluctant to push the panic button because we got poor results against Airdrie and East Fife.
The team that wins this title will lose 4 or 5 games. We have lost 2 to date.
If the performance today hadn’t been so bad I would be less concerned than the majority.
It may be that we need to change, I’m not arguing that point. I’m just saying that we should not rush into it when that really isn’t needed.
If we slip off the top and don’t beat Montrose, I’ll probably agree that we need the change but I’ll have severe reservations re our promotion chances.....
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2 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:


Yes I do think you are unfairly branding me here.
It’s the last 3 years that have been my concern and the constant change of strategy.
I don’t expect you’d remember but I was never a fan of Hartley and stated my concerns that the initiative could take us into a dark place that it would take us a long time to recover from.
My concern is that it’s exactly that constant reactive change that’s put us where we are today.
Do forgive me if I’m reluctant to push the panic button because we got poor results against Airdrie and East Fife.
The team that wins this title will lose 4 or 5 games. We have lost 2 to date.
If the performance today hadn’t been so bad I would be less concerned than the majority.
It may be that we need to change, I’m not arguing that point. I’m just saying that we should not rush into it when that really isn’t needed.
If we slip off the top and don’t beat Montrose, I’ll probably agree that we need the change but I’ll have severe reservations re our promotion chances.....

Not sure we should really be expecting to lose 4 or 5 games in a 27 game season in.the seaside leagues but I guess that just goes to show how crap  we have become.

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2 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Not sure we should really be expecting to lose 4 or 5 games in a 27 game season in.the seaside leagues but I guess that just goes to show how crap  we have become.

Your expectation levels are on a different planet. 

You know that Livingston side that are in the Premier?. They lost 7 games out of 36 in winning the title by 19 points.

Ayr lost 8 in this division, Morton lost 11games in winning this title. Indeed no one has lost less than 5 in recent years....

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2 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Not sure we should really be expecting to lose 4 or 5 games in a 27 game season in.the seaside leagues but I guess that just goes to show how crap  we have become.

This is almost Rangersesque arrogance. You were comprehensively defeated this afternoon by the better side on the day. You are however clearly a decent side, as your current league position would suggest.

Also, if you complete the season with four or five defeats, the chances are that you will finish as champions. 

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14 minutes ago, roman_bairn said:

Yes I do think you are unfairly branding me here.
It’s the last 3 years that have been my concern and the constant change of strategy.
I don’t expect you’d remember but I was never a fan of Hartley and stated my concerns that the initiative could take us into a dark place that it would take us a long time to recover from.
My concern is that it’s exactly that constant reactive change that’s put us where we are today.
Do forgive me if I’m reluctant to push the panic button because we got poor results against Airdrie and East Fife.
The team that wins this title will lose 4 or 5 games. We have lost 2 to date.
If the performance today hadn’t been so bad I would be less concerned than the majority.
It may be that we need to change, I’m not arguing that point. I’m just saying that we should not rush into it when that really isn’t needed.
If we slip off the top and don’t beat Montrose, I’ll probably agree that we need the change but I’ll have severe reservations re our promotion chances.....

If anything, it's the opposite to reactive change that's put us where we are today.

It was obvious to anyone that Eddie May wasn't cut out for the job and he should have been punted by the third game of the season. We persisted with him until February by which time it was far too late.

It was obvious in Houston's last season that he had lost it and should have been binned far sooner than he had been. But we persevered for too long and the damage had been done.

Ironically, the best decision the club made in recent season was to realise early on that the Hartley project had failed and binned him earlier in the season. However McKinnon should have been out on his arse when he got us relegated. But we stuck with him, again, for far too long.

The 'reactive change' you talk about doesn't really stand up. We don't have a history of changing stuff on a whim. If anything, it's the opposite.

EDIT: It's also not just poor results against Airdrie and East Fife.

Edited by Gaz
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37 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

They'd still be calling us knicker wetters if we were  playing Berwick in the league 2  relegation playoff. 

You're dead right people keep saying don't worry your going over board with your criticism as we drop further and further down the leagues. I wonder at what stage they'll wake up and finally realise we're in freefall.

I'm just going to quote this again because this is an absolutely fantastic post.

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2 hours ago, Brockvillenomore said:

Let's face facts, M&M have zero experience - and it's showing.  They've been found out after the first round of games, by part time managers working with budgets a fraction of that available to M&M. 

In truth we need to look at the Board for answers. They appointed them. The board itself was appointed (lets not forget) by the remaining members of the MSG and largely in their image.

A Board led by four people with zero experience running a football club, full to the gunnels with accountants & management consultants and a worrying one dimensional skillset.

A Board that still contains Directors who voted to close the academy, select pound shop Kenny Rogers as preferred bidder and appoint McKinnon and Hartley.

There's a pattern here isn't there? A pattern of failure and incompetence. Why are we surprised by this collapse? 

Our only hope seems to be Phil Rawlins, a man with no connection to Falkirk, no knowledge of scottish football and 4,000 miles away. 

Frankly, I'm terrified for the future of my club, we are in serious decline and no number of contrived and rehearsed YouTube videos by our chairman will ease my concern after witnessing that shambles today.

 

Yip I suspect the “board “are just another attempt at creating a management vehicle for the MSG who are hanging around like a bad smell. 
Deans is competent but as a manager not as an owner who demands not hopes for success . Look across the Forth to alloa to see how to run a club that punches above its weight. How many accountants do you need to calculate who holds the majority of the shares . 

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