The Falkirk FC Thread

[Bainsfordbairn]

1 hour ago, Back Post Misses said:

Don’t agree. The only way this will be stopped is a threat to shut the lot down. It has sod all to do with lasses in Tesco.

Clubs have had special dispensation to start football in time for them to coin in on the Sky cash. Clubs are responsible for ensuring their staff follow strict rules. It should be clubs who don’t ensure their players behave appropriately that should be hit. That will stop it I can assure you. If Lawell was losing points in his pursuit of 10 in a row he would be locking every fucking player up and ensuring that they adhered to the rules.

Meanwhile Tesco replaces the lassie on zero hour contract.

 

The lassie in Tesco was an example.  

I disagree and as you’re a company owner I’m surprised at your viewpoint. Have you never had an employee who failed to do what he was told and in the end you had to sack him? I certainly have. And I was an ordinary manager rather than a director.  

You can take as many precautions as you like. Careful recruitment, information, instruction, training and supervision. Ongoing assessments. Audits to ensure your processes comply with industry standards and current legislation.   

You think you’re covered and then suddenly one of your guys goes out and does something which goes against all his training. Puts lives at risk and maybe even costs them.

And you’re told your company will be heavily punished for it because he was your responsibility.

He was – but only up to a point. If you can prove you did everything reasonably practicable to prevent his actions then he takes most of the fall. That’s generally how vicarious liability works.

 None of us know the ins and outs of what Aberdeen and Celtic did to train their staff. But those players went against government rules which aren’t exactly a secret. Which is why I think they’re the only ones who should be punished.

 The bottom line is that no matter how hard you try you cannot control an ordinary persons behaviour 24/7/365.

[AL-FFC]

13 minutes ago, Duncan Freemason said:

Lawwell picks up seven figure bonuses year in year out from his club, and for delivering 10 in a row, you can bet that figure will be higher.

The chances of him supporting anything that might bruise Celtic’s title hopes is so remote, it’s not even worth considering.

I think the telling of his wording in the statement is the one that says that with the Celtic were at the forefront of getting football back on safely with working with the governing bodies and the Scottish Govt and making sure players etc were tested.  In other words "if it wasnt for us with our ideas you wouldnt have football back on therefore we shoouldnt and wont be punished for the actions of one player who chose to go off to Spain"  

[Hank von Hell]

29 minutes ago, Bainsfordbairn said:

The lassie in Tesco was an example.  

I disagree and as you’re a company owner I’m surprised at your viewpoint. Have you never had an employee who failed to do what he was told and in the end you had to sack him? I certainly have. And I was an ordinary manager rather than a director.  

You can take as many precautions as you like. Careful recruitment, information, instruction, training and supervision. Ongoing assessments. Audits to ensure your processes comply with industry standards and current legislation.   

You think you’re covered and then suddenly one of your guys goes out and does something which goes against all his training. Puts lives at risk and maybe even costs them.

And you’re told your company will be heavily punished for it because he was your responsibility.

He was – but only up to a point. If you can prove you did everything reasonably practicable to prevent his actions then he takes most of the fall. That’s generally how vicarious liability works.

 None of us know the ins and outs of what Aberdeen and Celtic did to train their staff. But those players went against government rules which aren’t exactly a secret. Which is why I think they’re the only ones who should be punished.

 The bottom line is that no matter how hard you try you cannot control an ordinary persons behaviour 24/7/365.

  I bet Real Madrid are sitting with fingers crossed that Bale breaks some COVID rule on the golf course real soon.

[Guest]

Celtic won’t support anything that involves points deduction or forfeit of games as punishment for something that they feel is as likely to happen to them as anyone else.

[Hank von Hell]

7 hours ago, AL-FFC said:

Thing that gets me is in this case its not so much Celtic and Aberdeen being punished the opposition are being disadvantaged in all of this with a fixture backlog and no real penalty as such agains the offenders bar an inconvenience they get a free week from the schedule because of the players not self isolating and a game to be played at a later date which no doubt the players will moan about too many games in too short a time.

What's the chances that now with a free week Brolly Bongogoalie fits in a sneaky 5 day trip to Spain.

He could catch up with his old mucker Johnny Hayes and reminisce about the old days in the Celtic reserves whilst laughing at everyone else struggling on.

[FFC 1876]

2 hours ago, AL-FFC said:

Assuming the BA one is a goer i would imagine another Defender and  a  Goalkeeper are the last bits of business to put in place.

That would leave us with a squad of 20, 21 if you include Lee Miller. Still dreaming that there's a chance we'll offload Sammon as he doesn't really offer us anything and i'd imagine he's on a decent wage which we could do with using elsewhere. A promising centre back(possibly Jonny Mitchell) that will compete with Durnan and Hall for the first team and a back up goalkeeper that's hopefully cheap but not as sh!te as Leo Fasan. M&M having previously played with Blair Alston might work in our favour and make him more likely to join us. Especially as we'll probably be offering him a 2 year deal. My only issue with Alston is he's one of those players that can go missing for a few games then score a worldie and everyone seems to forget how average he's been the few games before said worldie. Also as someone has mentioned it doesn't normally turn out well for us when we resign ex players.

Edited August 11, 2020 by FFC 1876

[Shadwell Dog]

4 hours ago, TxRover said:

With the season not starting until  September 12th, they have time to return, quarantine and then resume practice within EPL rules. I suspect the EPL has figured that having the players take two to three weeks off, then quarantine (if necessary) and then resume practice is best for getting some compliance with the rules during the resumption of the season.

BTW, looks like a cracking team that M&M are putting together, much younger and hungrier than Ray’s cronies and hangers-on. Hope the restart occurs on schedule, should be fun for you to watch.

I realise that but I just find it surprising that clubs are willing to risk the health of their multi million pound players by allowing them to go to ibiza and party with thousands of others  with zero social distancing etc.  Not saying they should be forced to stay in the house  but if I was a manager I'd want them to be following some kind of regs if they're being allowed to go abroad etc. Whilst the majority of healthy people haven't much to worry about others have been hit very hard by covid so I would be making sure all my players are being sensible and relaxing whilst following standard procedures. Let them go on holiday but keeping away from large gatherjngs would be a given.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[Bluegrass Bairn]

32 minutes ago, FFC 1876 said:

That would leave us with a squad of 20, 21 if you include Lee Miller. Still dreaming that there's a chance we'll offload Sammon as he doesn't really offer us anything and i'd imagine he's on a decent wage which we could do with using elsewhere. A promising centre back(possibly Jonny Mitchell) that will compete with Durnan and Hall for the first team and a back up goalkeeper that's hopefully cheap but not as sh!te as Leo Fasan. M&M having previously played with Blair Alston might work in our favour and make him more likely to join us. Especially as we'll probably be offering him a 2 year deal. My only issue with Alston is he's one of those players that can go missing for a few games then score a worldie and everyone seems to forget how average he's been the few games before said worldie. Also as someone has mentioned it doesn't normally turn out well for us when we resign ex players.

Yeah, would also love to think there's moves going on to off-load our two remaining big flops to free up the cash for better options.

Imagine Sammon & Telfer out and, say, Alston & DK-D in.... sigh. Wishful thinking that may well be, but irrespective of that Sammon is surely on borrowed time, now down to 4th choice at best, with the option of a further forward still to come in.  

Our recruitment aspirations are certainly looking a lot more positive, at last.  Fingers crossed... 

[TxRover]

21 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

I realise that but I just find it surprising that clubs are willing to risk the health of their multi million pound players by allowing them to go to ibiza and party with thousands of others  with zero social distancing etc.  Not saying they should be forced to stay in the house  but if I was a manager I'd want them to be following some kind of regs if they're being allowed to go abroad etc. Whilst the majority of healthy people haven't much to worry about others have been hit very hard by covid so I would be making sure all my players are being sensible and relaxing whilst following standard procedures. Let them go on holiday but keeping away from large gatherjngs would be a given.

You’ve seen the results of the entitled gits in the Scottish Premiership...can you imagine even attempting to tell star players in the EPL that during their four or five weeks of downtime between seasons (yea, I know they just had months off, but locked down) that can’t do X, Y and Z? The reality is as long as they fulfill the quarantine afterwards, unless they actually get COVID and have a bad response, the teams aren’t going to say boo. It’s possibly viewed as an inoculation against later stupidity before this thing hopefully peters out.

That being said, the SFA/SPFL response to these antics isn’t helping make it clear to the offending idiots that there will be consequences to violations...”plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose”.

[Reggie Perrin]

That would leave us with a squad of 20, 21 if you include Lee Miller. Still dreaming that there's a chance we'll offload Sammon as he doesn't really offer us anything and i'd imagine he's on a decent wage which we could do with using elsewhere. A promising centre back(possibly Jonny Mitchell) that will compete with Durnan and Hall for the first team and a back up goalkeeper that's hopefully cheap but not as sh!te as Leo Fasan. M&M having previously played with Blair Alston might work in our favour and make him more likely to join us. Especially as we'll probably be offering him a 2 year deal. My only issue with Alston is he's one of those players that can go missing for a few games then score a worldie and everyone seems to forget how average he's been the few games before said worldie. Also as someone has mentioned it doesn't normally turn out well for us when we resign ex players.

Quite a few examples over the years of players returning and being successful.

Miller, Yogi and Crunchie being the obvious ones.

The most notable failure probably Loy and he was very unfortunate will injury and illness.

[Hank von Hell]

3 hours ago, TxRover said:

You’ve seen the results of the entitled gits in the Scottish Premiership...can you imagine even attempting to tell star players in the EPL that during their four or five weeks of downtime between seasons (yea, I know they just had months off, but locked down) that can’t do X, Y and Z? The reality is as long as they fulfill the quarantine afterwards, unless they actually get COVID and have a bad response, the teams aren’t going to say boo. It’s possibly viewed as an inoculation against later stupidity before this thing hopefully peters out.

That being said, the SFA/SPFL response to these antics isn’t helping make it clear to the offending idiots that there will be consequences to violations...”plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose”.

To think a few months ago all the talk was of neutral grounds, bio bubbles and players staying in hotels between matches and training, 

It's amazing how lax it's all got now the Scottish have gone live.

They better get their act together soon as this 2nd wave is absolutely in the mail.  

[TxRover]

37 minutes ago, Hank von Hell said:

To think a few months ago all the talk was of neutral grounds, bio bubbles and players staying in hotels between matches and training, 

It's amazing how lax it's all got now the Scottish have gone live.

They better get their act together soon as this 2nd wave is absolutely in the mail.  

It all comes down to money in this case, as it usually does. The cash isn’t there to do any of the above outside the Scottish Premiership, and even there the majority of clubs can’t afford to stump up that kind of dosh. As a result, faced with teams going to the wall, the SPFL and SFA have played Laurel and Hardy in this particular process, stumbling around with a piano (or mirror), leaving us waiting for the inevitable truck to drive right through it.

Teams have made plans based upon an October start and season ticket revenues...if it falls through, there might well yet be a massacre in fitba because I can’t see most fans being able to simple donate those funds again. The sole remaining hope would be that IF the SG stops the games, they will somehow attempt to mitigate the financial armageddon they will cause.

[Bairn in Exile]

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

It all comes down to money in this case, as it usually does. The cash isn’t there to do any of the above outside the Scottish Premiership, and even there the majority of clubs can’t afford to stump up that kind of dosh. As a result, faced with teams going to the wall, the SPFL and SFA have played Laurel and Hardy in this particular process, stumbling around with a piano (or mirror), leaving us waiting for the inevitable truck to drive right through it.

Teams have made plans based upon an October start and season ticket revenues...if it falls through, there might well yet be a massacre in fitba because I can’t see most fans being able to simple donate those funds again. The sole remaining hope would be that IF the SG stops the games, they will somehow attempt to mitigate the financial armageddon they will cause.

They will cause? Nope, the players being arseholes and ignoring common sense rules and instructions will have caused it.

[Guest]

The lassie in Tesco was an example.   I disagree and as you’re a company owner I’m surprised at your viewpoint. Have you never had an employee who failed to do what he was told and in the end you had to sack him? I certainly have. And I was an ordinary manager rather than a director.  

You can take as many precautions as you like. Careful recruitment, information, instruction, training and supervision. Ongoing assessments. Audits to ensure your processes comply with industry standards and current legislation.   

You think you’re covered and then suddenly one of your guys goes out and does something which goes against all his training. Puts lives at risk and maybe even costs them.

And you’re told your company will be heavily punished for it because he was your responsibility.

He was – but only up to a point. If you can prove you did everything reasonably practicable to prevent his actions then he takes most of the fall. That’s generally how vicarious liability works.

 None of us know the ins and outs of what Aberdeen and Celtic did to train their staff. But those players went against government rules which aren’t exactly a secret. Which is why I think they’re the only ones who should be punished.

 The bottom line is that no matter how hard you try you cannot control an ordinary persons behaviour 24/7/365.

 

 

It may have been an example but it was a poor one.

 

This is not the same as another work place. They have had special dispensations to open again.

 

I repeat giving a player all the punishment such as community service as is being muted in the press is just a weak response. Clubs have to be responsible for their staffs actions.

 

To give you a bad example if one of my drivers runs over a kid outside a school when speeding am I going to say nothing to do with me? No you take a big part in the responsibility for that. That is more extreme than this so clubs have to take their share of the blame on this. It they directed their staff if clearly wasn’t strong enough.

 

Clubs country wide think they are a law unto themselves, this summers debacle shows that. Time they were all properly brought into line.

[AL-FFC]

It just gets worse so rather than punish the clubs they are set to introduce the players with community service, a fine or a suspension as mentioned anything to avoid a point deduction in the bid for 10 in a row:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/boli-bolingoli-outrage-leads-spfl-22506004

[Marshmallo]

No chance of us signing Jonny Mitchell if some of the daft hyperbole on here about him is right. He'll be taking Varane's place in the Madrid team.

[FFC 1876]

8 hours ago, Dennistoun Bairn said:

Yeah, would also love to think there's moves going on to off-load our two remaining big flops to free up the cash for better options.

Imagine Sammon & Telfer out and, say, Alston & DK-D in.... sigh. Wishful thinking that may well be, but irrespective of that Sammon is surely on borrowed time, now down to 4th choice at best, with the option of a further forward still to come in.  

Our recruitment aspirations are certainly looking a lot more positive, at last.  Fingers crossed... 

DKD just signed with Oldham on a one year deal. Telfer won't be going anywhere as he was just given a new contract wheresas Sammon was already signed up for this year so M&M didn't have the option on him. With Sammon living local he may be quite happy to see out his year sitting on the bench.

[Newbornbairn]

Hope we're getting these boys on relatively low wages but with 2 year deals because I really don't see us playing a full season until there's a vaccine. Stock up on popcorn because the Premiership is going to erupt when the whole thing is stopped. 

[Grangemouth Bairn]

15 minutes ago, AL-FFC said:

It just gets worse so rather than punish the clubs they are set to introduce the players with community service, a fine or a suspension as mentioned anything to avoid a point deduction in the bid for 10 in a row:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/boli-bolingoli-outrage-leads-spfl-22506004

They should just announce Lawell as head of SPFL - at least we’d see them as transparent then.

[Hank von Hell]

5 hours ago, TxRover said:

It all comes down to money in this case, as it usually does. The cash isn’t there to do any of the above outside the Scottish Premiership, and even there the majority of clubs can’t afford to stump up that kind of dosh. As a result, faced with teams going to the wall, the SPFL and SFA have played Laurel and Hardy in this particular process, stumbling around with a piano (or mirror), leaving us waiting for the inevitable truck to drive right through it.

Teams have made plans based upon an October start and season ticket revenues...if it falls through, there might well yet be a massacre in fitba because I can’t see most fans being able to simple donate those funds again. The sole remaining hope would be that IF the SG stops the games, they will somehow attempt to mitigate the financial armageddon they will cause.

I smiled for a moment at the L&H imagery.

Then laughed out loud at the suggestion the SG would compensate clubs for suspending the game for another breach.

And then there's SKY TV to factor in.

But I also share your worry over us lower league clubs, signing players and expecting to play.