craigkillie Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Why should clubs be expected to make their players redundant just to suit other clubs' unwillingness to play? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, craigkillie said: Why should clubs be expected to make their players redundant just to suit other clubs' unwillingness to play? No club is unwilling to play, some are incapable of playing behind closed doors without considerable funding to offset those loses. we all want to start playing tomorrow if we could. Falkirk play in League 1. If League 1 isn't starting until January then Falkirk have no requirement for players in the meantime. Like any other business in the world where circumstances change like that then redundancies happen. If this is about keeping players in a job, can the Dumbarton board to start demanding money from the league so that our now out of contract players still have a wage? Or will they be laughed out of town? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, The Moonster said: No club is unwilling to play, some are incapable of playing behind closed doors without considerable funding to offset those loses. we all want to start playing tomorrow if we could. Falkirk play in League 1. If League 1 isn't starting until January then Falkirk have no requirement for players in the meantime. Like any other business in the world where circumstances change like that then redundancies happen. If this is about keeping players in a job, can the Dumbarton board to start demanding money from the league so that our now out of contract players still have a wage? Or will they be laughed out of town? I'm sure the sfa and pfa will have something to say about just freeing players who have contracts. I'm sure in previous cases football debts have had to be repaid before the club can get back into playing again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Shadwell Dog said: I'm sure the sfa and pfa will have something to say about just freeing players who have contracts. I'm sure in previous cases football debts have had to be repaid before the club can get back into playing again. What are you talking about? If a player gets made redundant he's entitled to redundancy pay and the amount he gets is protected by law. Falkirk aren't just ripping up contracts and refusing to pay them what they're owed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, The Moonster said: What are you talking about? If a player gets made redundant he's entitled to redundancy pay and the amount he gets is protected by law. Falkirk aren't just ripping up contracts and refusing to pay them what they're owed. So why do clubs not just do that all the time. Why are players given payoffs etc which are more than a redundancy payment? If you can just bullet them anytime without reproach. Why are managers constantly getting large payoffs when clubs could just bullet them give them a few quid redundancy and say cheerios? Edited June 4, 2020 by Shadwell Dog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopeStreetWalker Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Shadwell Dog said: As long as it sells season tickets it's better than sitting doing nothing. However, you've got to wonder whether people would be interested if there was no real result come may. August no but I doubt we can hang about for 6 months or longer to play and I'm sure partick are in the same boat. You rightly point out how many people would be interested when football returns whenever that will be. Its the big question in these challenging times - how many fans will pay to see a game in whatever format. People are proposing courses of action and many of them are fine and dandy but they all require an income. All the club has to do is put a survey form on the club website. Set out the various scenarios that are likely and what the support would do. Then the club will have a reasonable idea of the income that can be expected. Then when there is certainty the club can take the appropriate course of action. FFC lives within its means and takes on as many staff as it can. Therefore putting the best team they can on the park. It's such a blindingly obvious thing to do ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: So why do clubs not just do that all the time. Why are players given payoffs etc which are more than a redundancy payment? If you can just bullet them anytime without reproach. Why are managers constantly getting large payoffs when clubs could just bullet them give them a few quid redundancy and say cheerios? It's clear you haven't a scooby what "redundancy" means. You can't make a football player redundant if your club still requires football players, so under normal circumstances there is no mechanism to declare redundancy and if you want rid of a player you pay him the compensation agreed in his contract. Right now you have no football games and no prospect of football games, hence your football players are redundant and they are only entitled to redundancy pay as set out in law. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 It's clear you haven't a scooby what "redundancy" means. You can't make a football player redundant if your club still requires football players, so under normal circumstances there is no mechanism to declare redundancy and if you want rid of a player you pay him the compensation agreed in his contract. Right now you have no football games and no prospect of football games, hence your football players are redundant and they are only entitled to redundancy pay as set out in law.Theres a time limit within which you cannot rehire for the same role though. It might actually be a year. On that basis redundancy is not an option. ETA if I have the timeline correct obviously. A year rings a bell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Theres a time limit within which you cannot rehire for the same role though. It might actually be a year. On that basis redundancy is not an option. ETA if I have the timeline correct obviously. A year rings a bell Not sure how accurate this is - https://croner.co.uk/resources/end-of-contract/redundancy/re-employing-after/ - but that would suggest you can re-employ your existing players (if they're available, obviously) or sign new ones when you need them again. According to that link, all Falkirk need to prove is the redundancy at the time was genuine (which it is), it was a necessity for Falkirk to make players redundant (which it is - if not doing so will liquidate the business) and that you are recruiting again due to a change in the company's financial situation (which it would be if games/fans at games were happening again). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 So we can just jettison 15 players or so to add to all those already unemployed and that's ok simply because us playing for a season puts a few peoples noses out of joint. It was ok though keeping teams in leagues simply because they had 10k seats a few years ago and yet us getting to play a league higher for a season simply because we happen to be able to is looked on as some kind of front to sporting integrity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: So we can just jettison 15 players or so to add to all those already unemployed and that's ok simply because us playing for a season puts a few peoples noses out of joint. It was ok though keeping teams in leagues simply because they had 10k seats a few years ago and yet us getting to play a league higher for a season simply because we happen to be able to is looked on as some kind of front to sporting integrity. Oaft, there's allot of hurt in that. Is Moonster has pointed out to you many times, would it be for a season though? I'm willing to bet that come 2021/22 Falkirk won't be happy to be lobbed back into league 1 if it was back up and running. Also, again as has been pointed out, where does it end and where does it start, are Falkirk more desevering than Cove, Kelty or even Dumbarton if they say they can play? What if the championship also doesn't start until January, do we put Falkirk in the Premier? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: puts a few peoples noses out of joint. As long as you're alright, Jack. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Grant228 said: Oaft, there's allot of hurt in that. Is Moonster has pointed out to you many times, would it be for a season though? I'm willing to bet that come 2021/22 Falkirk won't be happy to be lobbed back into league 1 if it was back up and running. Also, again as has been pointed out, where does it end and where does it start, are Falkirk more desevering than Cove, Kelty or even Dumbarton if they say they can play? What if the championship also doesn't start until January, do we put Falkirk in the Premier? Who knows there may be enough in 1 and 2 to play. I certainly dont think clubs outside the current 4 leagues though should be involved. It's up to the spfl to provide a structure for next season so that clubs who want to play can play. At the moment we've no idea how many are wanting to play but hopefully that will be made clear soon. As to what happens at the end of the season that's again up to the spfl bit I dont see the point of it being meaningless as if it is you're not going to get the required up take in tickets/streaming etc. January wouldnr be great but the big killer would be no football at all next season 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, The Moonster said: As long as you're alright, Jack. Every team will get the choice to do what's best for them. If its play you should get the chance to play. If it's not play then you should also get the chance not to play without sanctions etc. Its what's best for each individual club at the end of the day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 24 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: Who knows there may be enough in 1 and 2 to play. I certainly dont think clubs outside the current 4 leagues though should be involved. Why, what makes Falkirk more special than those clubs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopeStreetWalker Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: So we can just jettison 15 players or so to add to all those already unemployed and that's ok simply because us playing for a season puts a few peoples noses out of joint. It was ok though keeping teams in leagues simply because they had 10k seats a few years ago and yet us getting to play a league higher for a season simply because we happen to be able to is looked on as some kind of front to sporting integrity. Of course its not all right to jettison 15 players. It is a terrible thing to experience loosing a job and to be the one to do the telling. So I don't think anybody at FFC would be that callous. However if there is no job for the employee and there are financial constraints on who can be employed. Then you have to safeguard the future of the club and let staff go. At least if there is a club when normality returns then there are jobs in the future. There are time pressures now on the authorities. If there is no certainty by the end of June then clubs will have no choice. That goes for youth and academy players as well. If that happens when in 10 years time and people wonder why our international team is rubbish they can look at 2020 for the reasons. Edited June 4, 2020 by HopeStreetWalker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Grant228 said: Why, what makes Falkirk more special than those clubs? We're a member of the spfl they're not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 32 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: We're a member of the spfl they're not. It's not about leagues or membership, it's about keeping clubs solvent and players in jobs, Shirley? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, The Moonster said: It's not about leagues or membership, it's about keeping clubs solvent and players in jobs, Shirley? I'm sure the lowland leagues will do what's right for them. The SPFL has enough to worry about with 42 teams to take care of. Obviously if reconstruction was to occur and these clubs were to become part of the spfl then that's different but at the moment the lowland leagues will quite rightly be deciding on what happens to their own members and not an external organisation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, The Moonster said: It's not about leagues or membership, it's about keeping clubs solvent and players in jobs, Shirley? You may have noticed SD's ability to make very position that suits Falkirk sound like it originates straight from the moral high ground and that whatever Falkirk decide is best for them will have benefits for all clubs. At the same time condoning the moral bankruptcy of Hearts desperate attempts at self preservation because...well I'm sure you can guess why. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.