The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Shadwell Dog said: Next season should be all about keeping teams solvent and keeping players in a job. Those should be the priorities that outweigh anything else. It will be a one off just like ending last season in march was a one off. What happens after that is up to the clubs and spfl to decide but we should be concentrating on the issues that face us just now. If it's about keeping players in contracts, when can Dumbarton expect a wee hand out from the league/richer clubs so that we can offer extensions to our players? Or is it fine for those out of contract to be "put on the scrapheap"? 4 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: Did partick merit being in this league being 2 points behind with a game in hand and another 8 games to go? I feel promotion/relegation shouldn't have happened, but it's been democratically voted through by all members. If Falkirk get voted into one of the top two tiers over this situation I'll happily accept the democratic process, but I think you'll find most clubs will tell you where to go. 3 minutes ago, Ecosse83 said: Bend over backwards? All I want is for us to have a league to play in sometime soon. Think you need to get off your hihh horse mate! Lol, aye it's me on my high horse, not the streams of Falkirk fans who think they must be accommodated elsewhere because the other teams in their league are poorer than them. You've got a league to play in and you're crying about playing in another one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ecosse83 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: If it's about keeping players in contracts, when can Dumbarton expect a wee hand out from the league/richer clubs so that we can offer extensions to our players? Or is it fine for those out of contract to be "put on the scrapheap"? I feel promotion/relegation shouldn't have happened, but it's been democratically voted through by all members. If Falkirk get voted into one of the top two tiers over this situation I'll happily accept the democratic process, but I think you'll find most clubs will tell you where to go. Lol, aye it's me on my high horse, not the streams of Falkirk fans who think they must be accommodated elsewhere because the other teams in their league are poorer than them. You've got a league to play in and you're crying about playing in another one. Show where I've been crying out to play in another league? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 hours ago, The Moonster said: Where are you drawing the line here, should Kelty Hearts be considered for multiple promotions purely because their owner has deep pockets? Can Cove just skip a tier or two because a rich guy is throwing silly money at them? Shall we invite any of the new West region in case some of them have big wads of cash, Darvel perhaps? Falkirk fans keep saying "how do you hibernate a club with a full squad of players?" but you don't have a full squad of players and if you had no games to play you'd have grounds for making them redundant. This theory that Falkirk would be hard done by, by being asked to wait for the league they're in to start is baffling. It is a difficult proposition but I dont think teams who dont play in leagues with 4 figure gates have quite the same worries re gate money. We are in desperate and totally unprecedented times here and as a Falkirk fan, what I am faced with is our chairman saying "we are ready and able to play football" and the league association saying "well you cant". The entire world is in a colossal mess theirs of which we have never seen I dont think it's too far beyond the realms of possibility to maybe consider some extreme options in a footballing sense. We are literally dealing with a totally unprecedented crisis and still all we are seeing is folk lining up to say "ye cannae dae that". Its such a small time defeatist attitude and youl have to forgive me as a Falkirk fan for wanting to think a bit differently rather than just be herded towards the wall. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, The Moonster said: If it's about keeping players in contracts, when can Dumbarton expect a wee hand out from the league/richer clubs so that we can offer extensions to our players? Or is it fine for those out of contract to be "put on the scrapheap"? I feel promotion/relegation shouldn't have happened, but it's been democratically voted through by all members. If Falkirk get voted into one of the top two tiers over this situation I'll happily accept the democratic process, but I think you'll find most clubs will tell you where to go. Lol, aye it's me on my high horse, not the streams of Falkirk fans who think they must be accommodated elsewhere because the other teams in their league are poorer than them. You've got a league to play in and you're crying about playing in another one. If we've got a league to play in then fine. Roll on the 1st of August. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Bairnardo said: It is a difficult proposition but I dont think teams who dont play in leagues with 4 figure gates have quite the same worries re gate money. We are in desperate and totally unprecedented times here and as a Falkirk fan, what I am faced with is our chairman saying "we are ready and able to play football" and the league association saying "well you cant". The entire world is in a colossal mess theirs of which we have never seen I dont think it's too far beyond the realms of possibility to maybe consider some extreme options in a footballing sense. We are literally dealing with a totally unprecedented crisis and still all we are seeing is folk lining up to say "ye cannae dae that". Its such a small time defeatist attitude and youl have to forgive me as a Falkirk fan for wanting to think a bit differently rather than just be herded towards the wall. Exactly. Christ for one season we need to show a bit of flexibility here instead of you cannae dae that. Normally you dont crown champions on a random weekend in March ffs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: It is a difficult proposition but I dont think teams who dont play in leagues with 4 figure gates have quite the same worries re gate money. We are in desperate and totally unprecedented times here and as a Falkirk fan, what I am faced with is our chairman saying "we are ready and able to play football" and the league association saying "well you cant". The entire world is in a colossal mess theirs of which we have never seen I dont think it's too far beyond the realms of possibility to maybe consider some extreme options in a footballing sense. We are literally dealing with a totally unprecedented crisis and still all we are seeing is folk lining up to say "ye cannae dae that". Its such a small time defeatist attitude and youl have to forgive me as a Falkirk fan for wanting to think a bit differently rather than just be herded towards the wall. Do you believe Falkirk will cease to exist if you can't play football in August? 6 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: Exactly. Christ for one season we need to show a bit of flexibility here instead of you cannae dae that. Normally you dont crown champions on a random weekend in March ffs. Falkirk happy to fall into League 1 again at the start of season 21/22 then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopeStreetWalker Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: If we've got a league to play in then fine. Roll on the 1st of August. If it is financially viable to do so. Fans have to be consulted how many would buy a Season / Game block ticket. At least get an idea the club can base a budget on. With that information the club can decide on the size of squad and the wages that can be paid. Remember new employees do not qualify for government support regarding wages. As you have said we need a fixture list. Until then we can't do anything and the clock is ticking to the end of June. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Do you believe Falkirk will cease to exist if you can't play football in August? Falkirk happy to fall into League 1 again at the start of season 21/22 then? As long as it sells season tickets it's better than sitting doing nothing. However, you've got to wonder whether people would be interested if there was no real result come may. August no but I doubt we can hang about for 6 months or longer to play and I'm sure partick are in the same boat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: As long as it sells season tickets it's better than sitting doing nothing. However, you've got to wonder whether people would be interested if there was no real result come may. So, it's not just "one season" we need to show flexibility, you want permanently promoted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Do you believe Falkirk will cease to exist if you can't play football in August? I honestly dont know, but if that happens because the league body of which we are a member couldnt supply us with league fixtures or because they acted to help two league and fucked the rest off I think would have every right to get the pitchfork out. The SPFL have been shouting the odds about how they would punish teams unable to fulfill their fixtures. Wheres our recourse for asking for fixtures and being told no. I just dont think it's right that the current league structure is somehow sacrosanct to the point that a league club is saying they are ready and able to play football and they are being told no because of where you were positioned when we shut down the league. Its easy for fans to come on here and give it the "if Falkirk wanted higher league football they should have earned it" type attitudes (not accusing you of this) but evidently also easy to forget that we dodnt get the opportunity to earn it when it was looking like probably at worst a 50/50 shot, and also easy to forget that most if us have been fans of this club since we were wee and like many other fans, are faced with being told to just sit on our hands for a totally unknown period with no idea what's left at the end of it. More clubs playing in Scotland asap is in the interests of everyone at our level IMO If you want to maintain the league structure resembling what it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: I honestly dont know, but if that happens because the league body of which we are a member couldnt supply us with league fixtures or because they acted to help two league and fucked the rest off I think would have every right to get the pitchfork out. The SPFL have been shouting the odds about how they would punish teams unable to fulfill their fixtures. Wheres our recourse for asking for fixtures and being told no. I just dont think it's right that the current league structure is somehow sacrosanct to the point that a league club is saying they are ready and able to play football and they are being told no because of where you were positioned when we shut down the league. Its easy for fans to come on here and give it the "if Falkirk wanted higher league football they should have earned it" type attitudes (not accusing you of this) but evidently also easy to forget that we dodnt get the opportunity to earn it when it was looking like probably at worst a 50/50 shot, and also easy to forget that most if us have been fans of this club since we were wee and like many other fans, are faced with being told to just sit on our hands for a totally unknown period with no idea what's left at the end of it. More clubs playing in Scotland asap is in the interests of everyone at our level IMO If you want to maintain the league structure resembling what it is. I just can't agree, you're asking the league to hand you a permanent promotion because you are richer than your current opponents. Sit on your hands? What exactly are the rest of us in this division being asked to do? Why are Falkirk such a special case that need to be accommodated when other clubs are releasing players and facing redundancies? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 I'm sure the East of Scotland league or lowland league will get going quicker due to clubs being able to carry on more or less as before, ergo by not playing players. If for Falkirk it really is all about playing games and not making players redundant then fire them into there, and if they win that league they can jump into League 2 for the 21/22 season. Sounds Fair IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairn in Exile Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Moonster said: I just can't agree, you're asking the league to hand you a permanent promotion because you are richer than your current opponents. Sit on your hands? What exactly are the rest of us in this division being asked to do? Why are Falkirk such a special case that need to be accommodated when other clubs are releasing players and facing redundancies? Falkirk are not a special case. Every other club that is in our league and wants to play can ask to do so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Bairn in Exile said: Falkirk are not a special case. Every other club that is in our league and wants to play can ask to do so. Everyone in the league wants to play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, The Moonster said: I just can't agree, you're asking the league to hand you a permanent promotion because you are richer than your current opponents. Sit on your hands? What exactly are the rest of us in this division being asked to do? Why are Falkirk such a special case that need to be accommodated when other clubs are releasing players and facing redundancies? Its not that we are a special case. Its that we are a league club saying we are ready and able to play league football. It's wrong, at least on some level that the league body of which we are a member refuse to accommodate that. No one is asking for permanent anything. We are in an absolute state of flux here which could very feasibly result, you might even say probably result in the disappearance of some Scottish clubs. There is a ton of money and a whole country worth of people with a vested interest in this. Can we really ot come up with some creative and realistic solution to let Falkirk and everyone else who wants to play play, and protect the interests of those clubs who feel it best to hibernate for now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Its not that we are a special case. Its that we are a league club saying we are ready and able to play league football. It's wrong, at least on some level that the league body of which we are a member refuse to accommodate that. No one is asking for permanent anything. We are in an absolute state of flux here which could very feasibly result, you might even say probably result in the disappearance of some Scottish clubs. There is a ton of money and a whole country worth of people with a vested interest in this. Can we really ot come up with some creative and realistic solution to let Falkirk and everyone else who wants to play play, and protect the interests of those clubs who feel it best to hibernate for now? My point is Falkirk are well capable of hibernating like the rest of us in this league. The argument from the start from Falkirk fans is that the club will be liquidated if they can't play football until January - I'm yet to be given a valid reason as to why that would be the case. Folk saying Partick Thistle are in the same boat are misleading as well - they've raised over £150K since the start of lockdown and have excellent backing, again I'm yet to read a valid reason as to why they can't hibernate and pick up again with the rest of us. Lets say we go for the creative and realistic solution you are touting. All premiership clubs can play so that league is fine. For arguments sake, lets say the championship clubs are also fine to play. Partick, Falkirk, Cove and Kelty all tell the league they're ready to play in any division. Where do you put them? All permanently into tier 2? How are you working a 14 team league fixture wise? Does tier 2 stay a 14 team league from that point on? If not, how do you get back to the league sizes we have now? It's a monster can of worms that create far more headaches for the league and its members than simply asking all League 1 clubs to hold off until we're ready, and I don't think you guys realise that's why it will never happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, The Moonster said: So, it's not just "one season" we need to show flexibility, you want permanently promoted. No o never said that. If it had to be us going back them so be it but would prefer it to be us being bottom of the league that meant us going back to league one so that at least you arent going to have a huge pile of meaningless games. Edited June 4, 2020 by Shadwell Dog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, The Moonster said: My point is Falkirk are well capable of hibernating like the rest of us in this league. The argument from the start from Falkirk fans is that the club will be liquidated if they can't play football until January - I'm yet to be given a valid reason as to why that would be the case. Folk saying Partick Thistle are in the same boat are misleading as well - they've raised over £150K since the start of lockdown and have excellent backing, again I'm yet to read a valid reason as to why they can't hibernate and pick up again with the rest of us. Lets say we go for the creative and realistic solution you are touting. All premiership clubs can play so that league is fine. For arguments sake, lets say the championship clubs are also fine to play. Partick, Falkirk, Cove and Kelty all tell the league they're ready to play in any division. Where do you put them? All permanently into tier 2? How are you working a 14 team league fixture wise? Does tier 2 stay a 14 team league from that point on? If not, how do you get back to the league sizes we have now? It's a monster can of worms that create far more headaches for the league and its members than simply asking all League 1 clubs to hold off until we're ready, and I don't think you guys realise that's why it will never happen. Theres nothing that cant be worked out in the current climate ffs. We could raise 150k tomorrow but it wont get us through a season. Edited June 4, 2020 by Shadwell Dog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: We could raise 150k tomorrow but it wont get us through a season. If Falkirk's playing squad was made redundant tomorrow, how much would Falkirk need to see them through 6 months? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairn in Exile Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, The Moonster said: My point is Falkirk are well capable of hibernating like the rest of us in this league. The argument from the start from Falkirk fans is that the club will be liquidated if they can't play football until January - I'm yet to be given a valid reason as to why that would be the case. Folk saying Partick Thistle are in the same boat are misleading as well - they've raised over £150K since the start of lockdown and have excellent backing, again I'm yet to read a valid reason as to why they can't hibernate and pick up again with the rest of us. Lets say we go for the creative and realistic solution you are touting. All premiership clubs can play so that league is fine. For arguments sake, lets say the championship clubs are also fine to play. Partick, Falkirk, Cove and Kelty all tell the league they're ready to play in any division. Where do you put them? All permanently into tier 2? How are you working a 14 team league fixture wise? Does tier 2 stay a 14 team league from that point on? If not, how do you get back to the league sizes we have now? It's a monster can of worms that create far more headaches for the league and its members than simply asking all League 1 clubs to hold off until we're ready, and I don't think you guys realise that's why it will never happen. We're ready now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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