The Falkirk FC Thread

[NUMBER 7]

28 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Considering we barely had 15 senior players in the squad at the same time that season, you're in the position of claiming we were paying folk like Ali McCann, an 18yo who made one sub appearance, over £2k a week.

But yes, dont look at the huge reserves of money and turnover of well over £2m, and just look at our support size and claim you know what's sustainable for St Johnstone. 

I can only tell you what one of your directors told me at your clubs Golf Day at Crieff a year past April. St Johnstone have been a well run club, and I don’t care about their crowds or fan base, their business plan is based on being 6th every season, and the wheels can come off that very quickly.

[Shadwell Dog]

17 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

Fair point Shadwell but like any company and business there have to be some unpalatable decisions taken and on a timeline. There will be an accountant involved that will be saying just that. Their job is to ensure the financial wellbeing and solvency of the company and not let personal feelings come into it fan or not a fan.

This is what that accountant will be saying. Having been at meetings with accountants in my business life and I can hear it now ( It still puts a shiver up my spine ) Their job is to call it as it is looking at the company books and put to the board the options of following various scenarios.

'Our finances are decreasing week on week by X amount. Estimate we can bring in X amount from the fans. We have in the bank X amount.  Here are the timelines the firm can stay solvent following options A . B . C . D. each will have a course of action and a date we would run out of money.

Not painting financial Armageddon, am being realistic and pointing out the reality of the situation.

 

I think we're underestimating the fans a bit. If the future of the club was at stake I would think a lot of people would still buy season tickets even if the number of games they were going to attend live  was basically halved. We'll need to be creative in how we deal with it but I'd be hopeful we could raise enough money to keep us in good stead till next summer. Need more clarity on whether we'd be playing behind closed doors up till january or not though.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Shadwell Dog

[RandomGuy.]

8 minutes ago, NUMBER 7 said:

I can only tell you what one of your directors told me at your clubs Golf Day at Crieff a year past April. St Johnstone have been a well run club, and I don’t care about their crowds or fan base, their business plan is based on being 6th every season, and the wheels can come off that very quickly.

Our Directors slaver a lot of pish, to a lot of people, a lot.

This season St Johnstone had the 6th highest budget for the first time, according to Steve Brown in the media. That came about 1 month after Steve Brown claimed at a meeting with fans we had the 8th highest budget. It also came after the manager moaned we dont budget beyond 10th.

The budget probably goes up every year, based on the fact we've never finished below 8th since promotion 11 years ago, and regularly finish top half, but I'd say the chances of us "budgeting for 6th every season" is absolute shite.

Edited May 24, 2020 by RandomGuy.

[HopeStreetWalker]

23 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

I think we're underestimating the fans a bit. If the future of the club was at stake I would think a lot of people would still buy season tickets even if the number of games they were going to attend live  was basically halved. We'll need to be creative in how we deal with it but I'd be hopeful we could raise enough money to keep us in good stead till next summer. Need more clarity on whether we'd be playing behind closed doors up till january or not though.

I agree, if the worst came to the worst fans will put money in. But many fans will just not have the funds available. Individuals and families are going to have a reduced disposable income for some time to come.  If the board are factoring a fans bale out into their business plan then they are an absolute disgrace. If anything the financial planning should be based on not having to do that.

By being prudent now the club will survive longer without having to get the fans to spend money they can't afford.

Can't see football behind closed doors being financially viable at the level we are in. 

[clyde_r_us]

On 19/01/2011 at 12:27, The Hero of the Day said:

I really do believe that if Pressley goes, Bullen and Old Man Smith with be appointed the minute he walks out the door. I say walks because there's more chance of that happening than our spineless board do anything.

If only falkirk could've beaten them pesky Clyde folk

[Shadwell Dog]

17 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

I agree, if the worst came to the worst fans will put money in. But many fans will just not have the funds available. Individuals and families are going to have a reduced disposable income for some time to come.  If the board are factoring a fans bale out into their business plan then they are an absolute disgrace. If anything the financial planning should be based on not having to do that.

By being prudent now the club will survive longer without having to get the fans to spend money they can't afford.

Can't see football behind closed doors being financially viable at the level we are in. 

Not a bail out just selling season tickets as per normal.  Some may have a few quid less on their pockets but I also  I reckon a lot of folk will actually have more money available than normal. Not as if theres been anything to spend it on over the past few months. Most will have budgeted to spend their 250 quid in june August so no reason why they still wouldnt do that. Might not be for the same number of games so the club as I said will have to be creative  but no reason why we couldnt sell the usual 2000 plus which should see us through the season.

[Reggie Perrin]

Not a bail out just selling season tickets as per normal.  Some may have a few quid less on their pockets but I also  I reckon a lot of folk will actually have more money available than normal. Not as if theres been anything to spend it on over the past few months. Most will have budgeted to spend their 250 quid in june August so no reason why they still wouldnt do that. Might not be for the same number of games so the club as I said will have to be creative  but no reason why we couldnt sell the usual 2000 plus which should see us through the season.

Some fair points made but I would be cautious about any financial predictions until the true level of redundancies becomes clear when the furlough scheme winds down.
Hard times ahead.

[HopeStreetWalker]

11 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

Not a bail out just selling season tickets as per normal.  Some may have a few quid less on their pockets but I also  I reckon a lot of folk will actually have more money available than normal. Not as if theres been anything to spend it on over the past few months. Most will have budgeted to spend their 250 quid in june August so no reason why they still wouldnt do that. Might not be for the same number of games so the club as I said will have to be creative  but no reason why we couldnt sell the usual 2000 plus which should see us through the season.

It's a matter of integrity and credibility FFC should not sell season tickets when they do not know if there will be a football season. How long the season will be and what the make up of the league will be.

If it is a matter of getting money into the club and the board are going cap in hand to the fans then be up front about it and call it as it is. Not selling something they have a good idea they will not provide, it's just not right.

Going back to my original post weekly outgoings have to be brought down. By doing that the club reduces the chance of them having to go to the fans. 

Think FFC will - should

Let out of contract players go.

Reduced amount of players that are in contract retaining some on reduced terms ( core of 4-5 to build a team around )

Miller & McCracken retained on reduced terms.

Negotiate a reduced rent/lease arrangement for the Stadium. even if it is just for the juration of the pandemic.

Remember the government are going to reduce the support regarding employees wages. So by doing something similar to the above. FFC reduces the outgoings and buys a few more months that could make all the difference. But leaves a core at the club that a new team can be build around.

That is measured, prudent and pragmatic and also being supportive of the people employed by the club.

What's your thoughts ?

[TxRover]

23 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

It's a matter of integrity and credibility FFC should not sell season tickets when they do not know if there will be a football season. How long the season will be and what the make up of the league will be.

If it is a matter of getting money into the club and the board are going cap in hand to the fans then be up front about it and call it as it is. Not selling something they have a good idea they will not provide, it's just not right.

Going back to my original post weekly outgoings have to be brought down. By doing that the club reduces the chance of them having to go to the fans. 

Think FFC will - should

Let out of contract players go.

Reduced amount of players that are in contract retaining some on reduced terms ( core of 4-5 to build a team around )

Miller & McCracken retained on reduced terms.

Negotiate a reduced rent/lease arrangement for the Stadium. even if it is just for the juration of the pandemic.

Remember the government are going to reduce the support regarding employees wages. So by doing something similar to the above. FFC reduces the outgoings and buys a few more months that could make all the difference. But leaves a core at the club that a new team can be build around.

That is measured, prudent and pragmatic and also being supportive of the people employed by the club.

What's your thoughts ?

Something in the picture is out of focus, and I don’t know why. Raith just extended entire squad through the end of June, and our financials are certainly far from as solid as Falkirk’s. Hopefully, for fitba, this is an indication there is a prudent way forward for clubs to remain existent and keep players in some manner compensated.

https://mobile.twitter.com/thecouriersport/status/1264533366130409473?s=20

Edited May 24, 2020 by TxRover

[Shadwell Dog]

2 minutes ago, Bantabairn said:

Your BOD have acted in similar fashion as we’ve done. The debate about players being furloughed is now being questioned by the likes of RC and potential HMRC issues. With the Government changing the amount an employer contributes, think we will see many players released depending on the club’s circumstances once June is  complete.

To be honest though how do HMRC's know what players you would be holding on to or not? Easy enough to say we were keeping them under contract till we found out what was happening regarding leagues starting back up.  Then if as it looks like it there is no football with crowds till january you just say we released them due to not being able to afford them. Very difficult to prove otherwise.

[welshbairn]

No idea about HMRC complications but it basically comes down to shafting players or the tax payer. Wouldn't want to be making that choice.

[Shadwell Dog]

45 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

It's a matter of integrity and credibility FFC should not sell season tickets when they do not know if there will be a football season. How long the season will be and what the make up of the league will be.

If it is a matter of getting money into the club and the board are going cap in hand to the fans then be up front about it and call it as it is. Not selling something they have a good idea they will not provide, it's just not right.

Going back to my original post weekly outgoings have to be brought down. By doing that the club reduces the chance of them having to go to the fans. 

Think FFC will - should

Let out of contract players go.

Reduced amount of players that are in contract retaining some on reduced terms ( core of 4-5 to build a team around )

Miller & McCracken retained on reduced terms.

Negotiate a reduced rent/lease arrangement for the Stadium. even if it is just for the juration of the pandemic.

Remember the government are going to reduce the support regarding employees wages. So by doing something similar to the above. FFC reduces the outgoings and buys a few more months that could make all the difference. But leaves a core at the club that a new team can be build around.

That is measured, prudent and pragmatic and also being supportive of the people employed by the club.

What's your thoughts ?

I'm not talking about trying to pull the wool over fans eyes here. You would need to make them aware that no exact number of games would be guaranteed with a season ticket this season.  As long as your honest and open I would certainly pay my 250 quid if it meant having a club. To me this is also an opportunity for the club if handled correctly. There may be a limited number of clubs willing or able to play this season and if we can be one of those it gets us out of this league for a start. We need to be in a position where if they are asking who can play this season we're one of them.  Others may fall by the way side and that presents an opportunity for us.  

I cant see many players in the current climate who have a years deal taking payoffs or simply leaving as they will have nowhere to go. Anyone contracted to the club will be making sure ffc honour that deal.  The chances of us simply having 4 or 5 players left is zero if you ask me unless your paying up contracts in full which defeats the purpose surely.

[Shadwell Dog]

3 minutes ago, Bantabairn said:

HMRC will be watching all the clubs at present, my guess with even more scrutiny as before. Let’s face it, if your club is at the cliff edge, as we are all expecting to be, I wouldn’t expect them to start farting about with taxes.

As long as you're not taking the piss I'd expect it wont really matter. We've kept on 3 or 4 I'd expect it might be an issue if you're talking about 10 or 15.

[HopeStreetWalker]

24 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said:

I'm not talking about trying to pull the wool over fans eyes here. You would need to make them aware that no exact number of games would be guaranteed with a season ticket this season.  As long as your honest and open I would certainly pay my 250 quid if it meant having a club. To me this is also an opportunity for the club if handled correctly. There may be a limited number of clubs willing or able to play this season and if we can be one of those it gets us out of this league for a start. We need to be in a position where if they are asking who can play this season we're one of them.  Others may fall by the way side and that presents an opportunity for us.  

I cant see many players in the current climate who have a years deal taking payoffs or simply leaving as they will have nowhere to go. Anyone contracted to the club will be making sure ffc honour that deal.  The chances of us simply having 4 or 5 players left is zero if you ask me unless your paying up contracts in full which defeats the purpose surely.

That's fair regarding the season tickets, just as long as people know what they are getting.

If as has been suggested on the forum the contracts have a get out clause if not promoted there may be some wriggle room. But if money is tight ( as it will be ) some players may be offered an up front payment to go early. They get a casher in one payment and the club save money on the balance sheet.

 

[Shadwell Dog]

Just now, HopeStreetWalker said:

That's fair regarding the season tickets, just as long as people know what they are getting.

If as has been suggested on the forum the contracts have a get out clause if not promoted there may be some wriggle room. But if money is tight ( as it will be ) some players may be offered an up front payment to go early. They get a casher in one payment and the club save money on the balance sheet.

 

As I mentioned previously it's a bit hazy the whole contracts situation.  The only players mentioned so far re contract extensions were todd, hall and johnstone who have had theirs extended to the end of june and been furloughed. No mention of anyone else though and you would think that any player whose second year deal was promotion specific would also be nearing the end of their deal and facing the same situation as the previous 3. 

[Rovers_Lad]

3 hours ago, Shadwell Dog said:

To be honest though how do HMRC's know what players you would be holding on to or not? Easy enough to say we were keeping them under contract till we found out what was happening regarding leagues starting back up.  Then if as it looks like it there is no football with crowds till january you just say we released them due to not being able to afford them. Very difficult to prove otherwise.

This

There,ll be many more companies/self employed working the system.Sure HMRC wont have the time or manpower to keep a close eye on them never mind football clubs

[Hank von Hell]

7 hours ago, Bantabairn said:

Wouldn’t bet against the HMRC having there finger on the pulse 

The Government changed the laws of administration with football clubs in mind , any club coming out of administration must pay HMRC in full first.  

There is the PAYE issue also which has been deferred on all employees wages  but will be accumulating and will have to be paid. Another reason why releasing as many players as possible now is the way to go to help the club survive.

Once we are through this the Gov will be looking to get back as much money as possible through cut backs and taxes.    

[falkirkzombie]

18 hours ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

That's fair regarding the season tickets, just as long as people know what they are getting.

If as has been suggested on the forum the contracts have a get out clause if not promoted there may be some wriggle room. But if money is tight ( as it will be ) some players may be offered an up front payment to go early. They get a casher in one payment and the club save money on the balance sheet.

 

I think for that reason we might not here much on season tickets anytime soon from the club, it's impossible to put together a deal without knowing how many games if any will be played or in what division for that matter. Clubs selling season tickets ATM are doing so because the need the cash, it will be more complicated for them once we know how football starts back and what it will look like.

Did Gary Deans not mention a share issue before?, this may be the route the club goes down to raise money untill we know more.

[HopeStreetWalker]

1 hour ago, falkirkzombie said:

I think for that reason we might not here much on season tickets anytime soon from the club, it's impossible to put together a deal without knowing how many games if any will be played or in what division for that matter. Clubs selling season tickets ATM are doing so because the need the cash, it will be more complicated for them once we know how football starts back and what it will look like.

Did Gary Deans not mention a share issue before?, this may be the route the club goes down to raise money untill we know more.

As I posted to Shadwell FFC have to be transparent in any Season Tickets being put on sale before there is a fixture list , what league we will be in , when the season starts would be unacceptable. It would have to be part of a package that if there is no season then you get something as compensation for your outlay.

Flogging something knowing you may not have a product to deliver if fraud.

[Proudtobeabairn]

No reason we couldn't offer a voluntary full price season ticket for those who want to support the club regardless of the number of games they end up seeing.  This could be done early with follow up options once we know when football will restart - e.g half season ticket, season access to Falkirk TV etc.  

We'll no doubt still need the odd fundraiser but I think fans will put their hands in their pockets if they can as this is an exceptional time and the club needs the money.