The Falkirk FC Thread

[Dawson Park Boy]

2 minutes ago, Bairn in Exile said:

Never claimed to have one.

However, managing this pandemic in a controlled manner has to be better than your laissez faire solution. 2 libertarians, Boris Johnson and Rand Paul, who probably only paid lip service to following common sense guidelines, ended up contracting Covid-19.

Yes, lots of people will get it but only a tiny percentage will need hospitalisation. Just like the common flu and, remember most people are vaccinated against that.

Thats the point. The death rate is about the same.

At least you don’t succumb to foul language, unlike some others.

This is a serious matter and needs proper debate.

[Bairn in Exile]

21 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Yes, lots of people will get it but only a tiny percentage will need hospitalisation. Just like the common flu and, remember most people are vaccinated against that.

Thats the point. The death rate is about the same.

At least you don’t succumb to foul language, unlike some others.

This is a serious matter and needs proper debate.

Sorry DPB but you just aren't getting it.

Stats for Italy:  86,498 cases, 9134 deaths.

Stats for the UK: 14,543 cases, 759 deaths.

Because Italy acted too late they have ended up with the above stats. Because the UK acted sooner once they realised the seriousness of the situation and implemented lockdowns etc. they were able to control things much better.

Now, imagine if Italy decided not to act ( because the cure is worse than the disease) and hadn't introduced lockdowns etc. How many cases /deaths would they have by now? 200,000 / 20,000? 300,000 / 30,000? 400,000 / 40,000? Which of the aforementioned numbers are acceptable to you? 

And I don't know of many in the medical profession who die as a result of coming in close contact with a patient who has the flu, do you? Italy has lost 45 doctors because they came in close contact with infected patients. Covid-19 is nothing like the flu.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Bairn in Exile

[Guest]

BPM - big story in the papers today saying that the epicentre of European cv was in the Austrian Tyrol region, in particular the ski resort of Ischgli.
Any chance that’s where you were?
Apparently, big scandal brewing in Austria over the cover up.

I was in Saalbach near Salzburg. A good bit away from the Tyrol

[Grangemouth Bairn]

11 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Still think we’ll all be back in business around Easter

Trump isn’t doling out a trillion plus to just watch the economy go down the pan.

Once the hospitals can cope that’ll be it.

If the US leads, the rest of the world will follow

Fast  reaching the stage where the cure is worse than the disease.

 

 

 

I think you should stop posting until this is all over - whenever that may be.

[Dawson Park Boy]

16 minutes ago, Bairn in Exile said:

Sorry DPB but you just aren't getting it.

Stats for Italy:  86,498 cases, 9134 deaths.

Stats for the UK: 14,543 cases, 759 deaths.

Because Italy acted too late they have ended up with the above stats. Because the UK acted sooner once they realised the seriousness of the situation and implemented lockdowns etc. they were able to control things much better.

Now, imagine if Italy decided not to act ( because the cure is worse than the disease) and hadn't introduced lockdowns etc. How many cases /deaths would they have by now? 200,000 / 20,000? 300,000 / 30,000? 400,000 / 40,000? Which of the aforementioned numbers are acceptable to you? 

And I don't know of many in the medical profession who die as a result of coming in close contact with a patient who has the flu, do you? Italy has lost 45 doctors because they came in close contact with infected patients. Covid-19 is nothing like the flu.

Now you’re getting interesting and trying to address the subject,.

Out of the 86000 cases in Italy, 66000 are still active in which 6% are serious. Of the other 20000, 9000 died and 11000 recovered which is a high death rate. I don’t have the stats on this but, apparently, the vast majority were over 80 as Italy has a high longevity rate and the disease probably just tipped them over. The number of new cases seems to be stabilising as so many people now have immunity.

Actually, I’m not arguing against lockdown but rather that it needs to have a fixed duration to break the cycle of infection.

There does need to be an assessment of downsides and mortality  outcomes due to lockdown against the risks of returning to normality alongside the benefits of a returning economy and general wellbeing to the population.

Lots of pluses and minuses.

Interestingly, Sweden has not gone for lockdown and doesn’t seem to be any worse off.

Anyway, thanks for addressing the problem rather than just tossing out abuse as others with closed minds do.

[Dawson Park Boy]

18 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

 

I was in Saalbach near Salzburg. A good bit away from the Tyrol

 

Thanks. Just thought it might be of interest.

[Guest]

Yes, lots of people will get it but only a tiny percentage will need hospitalisation. Just like the common flu and, remember most people are vaccinated against that.
Thats the point. The death rate is about the same.
At least you don’t succumb to foul language, unlike some others.
This is a serious matter and needs proper debate.

I have had this. I was lucky they got me into hospital and pumped full of drugs quickly. However had I not got the treatment when I did I genuinely don’t think I would be here now. It had turned into pneumonia - pretty seriously too and I had no health issues.

The NHS will not cope. I have seen what precautions they needed to take to treat me safely. You have no idea. This is not “just like the flu”.

For the NHS to cope lockdown will have to go on much longer than Easter. It is the only way to stop it spreading and overwhelming the hospitals.

The issue regarding the economy is now firmly in the hands in the Government, banks and insurance companies. They need to start to act as one and support business. Despite the hot air, they are not doing enough. Banks are still using the same rules as before the crisis and will take 6-8 weeks to process business interruption loans. Government will be taking another 6 weeks to sort the Furlough website and insurance companies such as AVIVA are washing their hands of this crisis. Fortunately in the industry I am in people seem to be pulling together which may help companies get through this.

So in summary this crisis will end up putting 10m+ on the dole if the financial institutions and government don’t get their act together - and very quickly. The lockdown will have to continue or the hospitals will never cope. Time to get things sorted Johnston and co.

[Bairn in Exile]

12 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Now you’re getting interesting and trying to address the subject,.

Out of the 86000 cases in Italy, 66000 are still active in which 6% are serious. Of the other 20000, 9000 died and 11000 recovered which is a high death rate. I don’t have the stats on this but, apparently, the vast majority were over 80 as Italy has a high longevity rate and the disease probably just tipped them over. The number of new cases seems to be stabilising as so many people now have immunity.

Actually, I’m not arguing against lockdown but rather that it needs to have a fixed duration to break the cycle of infection.

There does need to be an assessment of downsides and mortality  outcomes due to lockdown against the risks of returning to normality alongside the benefits of a returning economy and general wellbeing to the population.

Lots of pluses and minuses.

Interestingly, Sweden has not gone for lockdown and doesn’t seem to be any worse off.

Anyway, thanks for addressing the problem rather than just tossing out abuse as others with closed minds do.

Re: the first line in bold, can you give me any proof of this?

Re: the second line, why a fixed duration? Surely the duration should be until the virus is eradicated?

Re: the paragraph in bold, what is your assessment as to what is an acceptable number of deaths? Because you didn't answer this question previously.

And you didn't answer my point about Covid-19 being much more infectious and deadly than the flu? What are your thoughts on that?

Edited March 28, 2020 by Bairn in Exile

[Dawson Park Boy]

17 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

 

I have had this. I was lucky they got me into hospital and pumped full of drugs quickly. However had I not got the treatment when I did I genuinely don’t think I would be here now. It had turned into pneumonia - pretty seriously too and I had no health issues.

The NHS will not cope. I have seen what precautions they needed to take to treat me safely. You have no idea. This is not “just like the flu”.

For the NHS to cope lockdown will have to go on much longer than Easter. It is the only way to stop it spreading and overwhelming the hospitals.

The issue regarding the economy is now firmly in the hands in the Government, banks and insurance companies. They need to start to act as one and support business. Despite the hot air, they are not doing enough. Banks are still using the same rules as before the crisis and will take 6-8 weeks to process business interruption loans. Government will be taking another 6 weeks to sort the Furlough website and insurance companies such as AVIVA are washing their hands of this crisis. Fortunately in the industry I am in people seem to be pulling together which may help companies get through this.

So in summary this crisis will end up putting 10m+ on the dole if the financial institutions and government don’t get their act together - and very quickly. The lockdown will have to continue or the hospitals will never cope. Time to get things sorted Johnston and co.
 

 

Agree about the finances situation.

For the small retail and leisure businesses, the local authorities are saying they will be paying out the grants next week.

Ive done the furloughing of staff but when we see the cash, I don’t know. 
Regarding bank finance, I gave up trying to get through to mine but eventually I got a recorded message asking me to email details and then they said they would get back. Still no response. I’ll try next week.

We now have no income and need to pay staff and have lots of creditors who, as yet, are not getting nasty.

Unfortunately, a large stock sitting idle doesn’t do you any good.

This is where I’m coming from .

[Hannibal Lecturer]

2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Around half a million folks die in the UK every year, with all kinds of illnesses and diseases. Some are tragic like youngsters succumbing to terrible diseases way before their time.

But that is life, I’m afraid.

There has to be an end game or millions will be unemployed on a permanent basis with thousands dying of depression, heart attacks, obesity, alcoholism, you name it. As I say, the cure will be worse than the disease!

Calling me an idiot (which doesn’t bother me, by the way) only reinforces just how lacking in foresight most of you are.

The latest death forecast btw, is now around 5k as against an average flu death year of around 8000.

Even Andrew Neil is starting to question the rationale now. Take a look at his twitter account

Aye but all these illnesses will still be killing people as well as covid 19 ya clown..

[Dawson Park Boy]

29 minutes ago, Bairn in Exile said:

Re: the first line in bold, can you give me any proof of this?

Re: the second line, why a fixed duration? Surely the duration should be until the virus is eradicated?

Re: the paragraph in bold, what is your assessment as to what is an acceptable number of deaths? Because you didn't answer this question previously.

And you didn't answer my point about Covid-19 being much more infectious and deadly than the flu? What are your thoughts on that?

Okay, as far as I’m aware most people gain immunity once they have had it.- herd immunity - apparently, people have been getting it since December/January.

You are correct - it is much more infectious than ordinary flu and can display very different symptoms in different people - witness BPM  having a bad dose. However, the majority barely know they have it.

New news just in from Dr Doom (Ferguson) at Imperial who is now  estimating around 5000 deaths with the peak coming in about 1 week. Very good news. My source for this is Prof Karol Sikora.

The period of lockdown should be around 4 weeks to allow everyone to become clear of the infection or be hospitalised and not infect others.

We will never totally be clear but if you see what BPM from the sharp end is saying, unless we want an unmitigated disaster with all the social and anti-social consequences we MUST get the show back on the road with all the health problems attached.

Its all very well for folks in government paid jobs to pontificate on this but there is a REALITY which needs addressing

[Bairnardo]

Okay, as far as I’m aware most people gain immunity once they have had it.- herd immunity - apparently, people have been getting it since December/January.
You are correct - it is much more infectious than ordinary flu and can display very different symptoms in different people - witness BPM  having a bad dose. However, the majority barely know they have it.
New news just in from Dr Doom (Ferguson) at Imperial who is now  estimating around 5000 deaths with the peak coming in about 1 week. Very good news. My source for this is Prof Karol Sikora.
The period of lockdown should be around 4 weeks to allow everyone to become clear of the infection or be hospitalised and not infect others.
We will never totally be clear but if you see what BPM from the sharp end is saying, unless we want an unmitigated disaster with all the social and anti-social consequences we MUST get the show back on the road with all the health problems attached.
Its all very well for folks in government paid jobs to pontificate on this but there is a REALITY which needs addressing

You don't think the Conservative govt are aware that we need to get back to normal life asap?

[Dawson Park Boy]

8 minutes ago, Hannibal Lecturer said:

Aye but all these illnesses will still be killing people as well as covid 19 ya clown..

About 10 years ago, flu killed 20000. Current estimate for cv19 is around 5000. New Imperial College study.

Half a million or thereabouts die in UK every year.

Anything interesting to add?

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:

5 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Okay, as far as I’m aware most people gain immunity once they have had it.- herd immunity - apparently, people have been getting it since December/January.
You are correct - it is much more infectious than ordinary flu and can display very different symptoms in different people - witness BPM  having a bad dose. However, the majority barely know they have it.
New news just in from Dr Doom (Ferguson) at Imperial who is now  estimating around 5000 deaths with the peak coming in about 1 week. Very good news. My source for this is Prof Karol Sikora.
The period of lockdown should be around 4 weeks to allow everyone to become clear of the infection or be hospitalised and not infect others.
We will never totally be clear but if you see what BPM from the sharp end is saying, unless we want an unmitigated disaster with all the social and anti-social consequences we MUST get the show back on the road with all the health problems attached.
Its all very well for folks in government paid jobs to pontificate on this but there is a REALITY which needs addressing

You don't think the Conservative govt are aware that we need to get back to normal life asap?

Absolutely, and it’ll happen sooner than you think.

[ShaggerG]

2 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Around half a million folks die in the UK every year, with all kinds of illnesses and diseases. Some are tragic like youngsters succumbing to terrible diseases way before their time.

But that is life, I’m afraid.

There has to be an end game or millions will be unemployed on a permanent basis with thousands dying of depression, heart attacks, obesity, alcoholism, you name it. As I say, the cure will be worse than the disease!

Calling me an idiot (which doesn’t bother me, by the way) only reinforces just how lacking in foresight most of you are.

The latest death forecast btw, is now around 5k as against an average flu death year of around 8000.

Even Andrew Neil is starting to question the rationale now. Take a look at his twitter account

Correct, but the NHS do all that they can to save them. If you think it's a good idea that they continue to do all they can to save them it would be handy if they didn't have to cope with Covid-19 too.

Here's and idea that you may consider (or possibly already have). Since this disease seems to be killing mostly older folk, why don't we round up the over 70's and stick them all in a gas chamber? That would help eradicate it much more quickly I would think.

[Dawson Park Boy]

2 minutes ago, ShaggerG said:

Correct, but the NHS do all that they can to save them. If you think it's a good idea that they continue to do all they can to save them it would be handy if they didn't have to cope with Covid-19 too.

Here's and idea that you may consider (or possibly already have). Since this disease seems to be killing mostly older folk, why don't we round up the over 70's and stick them all in a gas chamber? That would help eradicate it much more quickly I would think.

No need to go to those lengths.

You can save the gas.

Just let them go about their normal lives rather than imprisoning them as is happening at the moment (I’m included) and as a consequence reducing their lifespan.

 

[Guest]

No need to go to those lengths.
You can save the gas.
Just let them go about their normal lives rather than imprisoning them as is happening at the moment (I’m included) and as a consequence reducing their lifespan.
 

[emoji15]

[Guest]

The latest death forecast is predicated on doing what we are doing. The “stuff it, let’s allow it free rein” would kill ten of thousands, and globally, millions.

Your philosophy when extended to all medicine would see typhoid, polio and TB rampaging right across the planet. I am quite sure if a disease takes someone close you, then you are happy to shrug your shoulders and write it all off to fate.

Andrew Neil is paid handsomely to attack/question/provoke government policy and politicians themselves. He is not my moral compass, and he would be horrified to think individuals adopt his writings as such. He is an agent provocateur. He is not Yoda.

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

No need to go to those lengths.

You can save the gas.

Just let them go about their normal lives rather than imprisoning them as is happening at the moment (I’m included) and as a consequence reducing their lifespan.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

 

 

Yes, BPM, he meant to say that. Impressive, isn’t it.

If clever lad her is watching the statistics, then he’ll see that New York City hospitals are losing the battle, New Orleans is at capacity with cases still climbing, Detroit is about to crater, Washington State has finally seen a tiny bit of light thanks to a just in time lockdown there, and the United States as a whole is using capacities unimaginable in normal time (splitting ventilators, enlisting military hospital ships to provide extra capacity,  etc) just to try to stay afloat. The experts say 6 more weeks minimum, and our bumbling, self-interested, clueless leader wants to reopen by Easter.

The  more interesting question is what are the true statistics from China.

[Etherglider]

It would be wrong to compare the Covoid-19 virus with seasonal flu. Scientists can pretty much forecast the end of a seasonal flu and predict quite accurately morbidity rates amongst those infected. With Covoid-19 they are dealing with a virus they havnt  seen before. Previous incarnations of this virus were the Sars outbreak and the Mers outbreak. Information gathered on the outbreak reveals that infection isn't uniform across the globe, it varies greatly. Another example of an unknown quantity. It appears those studying this outbreak are learning more about it as it expands. As opposed to seasonal flu, (which they know a great deal about), where there is a vaccine, there isn't one for this new virus. So, in my humble opinion, to those that say,"its just a bit of flu", or "lets just get back to normal", I think you're wrong. Discuss.