The Falkirk FC Thread

[KiwiDB]

You do know he's never actually been convicted by a court right?

The gulf between the fans and the club is the biggest I can remember in the ~20 years I've supported us. Don't think signing a convicted rapist goes anyway to fixing that tbh. 

[Hank von Hell]

2 hours ago, KiwiDB said:

You do know he's never actually been convicted by a court right?
 

Not this again...…..only because it shamefully did not get to a criminal court.

Meanwhile in the civil court:

But in a civil ruling on the case on January 17, heard at the Court of Session in Edinburgh, Lord Armstrong said Goodwillie and Robertson “each raped her”.

He said: “Having carefully examined and scrutinised the whole evidence in the case, I find the evidence of the pursuer (the woman) to be cogent, persuasive and compelling.

“In the result, therefore, I find that in the early hours of Sunday January 2, 2011, at the flat in Greig Crescent, Armadale, both defenders (the footballers) took advantage of the pursuer when she was vulnerable through an excessive intake of alcohol.

They must now pay her £100,000 in damages.

Ms Clair sued striker Goodwillie and his then Dundee United colleague David Robertson after being left “devastated” by a Crown decision not to prosecute.

She waived her right to anonymity.

His club at the time, Plymouth, rightly binned him after this.     

[ANEWHOPE]

You do know he's never actually been convicted by a court right?

He has actually, of assault, twice!

Also you do know that a civil court is still a court? And he was found guilty of rape in that, and three appeal court judges upheld the conviction, you do know that?

[Reggie Perrin]

Goodwillie is really not what our shambles of a club neads right now. We need players that the fans can connect with not despise.

[Tulloch Gorum]

People who scream about it being "only" a civil court conviction are exactly the same kind of wrong'uns as those weird American libertarians who jump around on Twitter insisting that, actually, there is technically a difference between paedophilia (wrong, bad, beyond the pale, of course) and ephebophilia (different! totally fine!).
 

Football has taken to patting itself on the back a bit recently about how good it is on things like homophobia and mental health, but as long as people are totally willing to defend rapists and accuse their victims of lying solely because a man is good at football, the sport has a long, long way to go in terms of social responsibility.  Nobody would get so het up about how good a postie someone was if that postie had been convicted of rape in a civil court.  When a minister or a priest gets found out for being an abuser, we don't say "Ah, but his sermons are brilliant!"  And we certainly wouldn't say that if it had been us, or our sister, or our friend, or our cousin that had been abused.  Football should be no different.

[Kircer bairn]

You homed in on a well reasoned argument there Tulloch however can’t help thinking that it’s time for us all to draw a line under what is now an historic legal case & move on.

Personally speaking & purely from a team perspective I would prefer that we went after the centre midfielder at Clyde who in the match at Broadwood ran the show 

 

[AndyDD]

My understanding is, and correct me if i've gotten some dodgy info here, Goodwillie is out of contract at Clyde come the end of the season as things stand? Is that right? If so, a club wouldn't actually need to spend much to sign the guy and are free to talk to him about pre-contracts, as well. 

Signing him would be a signal of desperation to get up at first time of asking, so it could well tell a story about the board of any club who does make that move. Morally repugnant, but I reckon he'd be enough to make the difference in a title challenge as tight nit as this one. 

It would also presumably relegate clyde. 

[KiwiDB]

4 hours ago, Hank von Hell said:

Not this again...…..only because it shamefully did not get to a criminal court.

Meanwhile in the civil court:

But in a civil ruling on the case on January 17, heard at the Court of Session in Edinburgh, Lord Armstrong said Goodwillie and Robertson “each raped her”.

He said: “Having carefully examined and scrutinised the whole evidence in the case, I find the evidence of the pursuer (the woman) to be cogent, persuasive and compelling.

“In the result, therefore, I find that in the early hours of Sunday January 2, 2011, at the flat in Greig Crescent, Armadale, both defenders (the footballers) took advantage of the pursuer when she was vulnerable through an excessive intake of alcohol.

They must now pay her £100,000 in damages.

Ms Clair sued striker Goodwillie and his then Dundee United colleague David Robertson after being left “devastated” by a Crown decision not to prosecute.

She waived her right to anonymity.

His club at the time, Plymouth, rightly binned him after this.     

So, you can point to the "rape conviction" on his record following that can you?

3 hours ago, ANEWHOPE said:

 

He has actually, of assault, twice!

Also you do know that a civil court is still a court? And he was found guilty of rape in that, and three appeal court judges upheld the conviction, you do know that?

 

Eh, no, he was sued in a civil court, there was no trial for "rape".

49 minutes ago, Tulloch Gorum said:

People who scream about it being "only" a civil court conviction are exactly the same kind of wrong'uns as those weird American libertarians who jump around on Twitter insisting that, actually, there is technically a difference between paedophilia (wrong, bad, beyond the pale, of course) and ephebophilia (different! totally fine!).
 

Football has taken to patting itself on the back a bit recently about how good it is on things like homophobia and mental health, but as long as people are totally willing to defend rapists and accuse their victims of lying solely because a man is good at football, the sport has a long, long way to go in terms of social responsibility.  Nobody would get so het up about how good a postie someone was if that postie had been convicted of rape in a civil court.  When a minister or a priest gets found out for being an abuser, we don't say "Ah, but his sermons are brilliant!"  And we certainly wouldn't say that if it had been us, or our sister, or our friend, or our cousin that had been abused.  Football should be no different.

There's no such thing as a conviction in a civil court proceeding.

[AndyDD]

5 minutes ago, KiwiDB said:

So, you can point to the "rape conviction" on his record following that can you?

Eh, no, he was sued in a civil court, there was no trial for "rape".

There's no such thing as a conviction in a civil court proceeding.

The excuses out already, eh? Must be a done deal. 

[Hank von Hell]

5 minutes ago, KiwiDB said:

So, you can point to the "rape conviction" on his record following that can you?

Eh, no, he was sued in a civil court, there was no trial for "rape".

There's no such thing as a conviction in a civil court proceeding.

Just because the criminal case fell down doesn't mean he is innocent (or guilty) . However the judge in the civil case is absolutely saying he's guilty of rape.

I think you are hiding behind technicalities here. So are you saying you believe him to be innocent of rape? 

[Raith_Raver]

The only people who know what happened are the three of them. The judge made his decision on the balance of probability.

[Enigma]

There's no such thing as a conviction in a civil court proceeding.

Rape apologist.

[KiwiDB]

11 minutes ago, Hank von Hell said:

Just because the criminal case fell down doesn't mean he is innocent (or guilty) . However the judge in the civil case is absolutely saying he's guilty of rape.

I think you are hiding behind technicalities here. So are you saying you believe him to be innocent of rape? 

No, the bit in bold is what I think, he's never actually been tried for it.

The judge in the civil case says he's "probably guilty"

[Newbornbairn]

This is why he shouldn't come but it's probably exactly why the board would be keen. Get the fans fighting among themselves and take the heat off them. 

[Proudtobeabairn]

Can't see any truth in the Goodwillie rumour, De Vita seems much more likely but not exactly excited by the prospect. 

M&M have to take a large chunk of the blame for recent performances.  As others have said, the 5 at the back + holding midfielder formation is designed towards not losing.  In this league (and even with this squad) we should never be resorting to 3 centre halves and a holding midfielder.  M&M don't seem capable of noticing this or changing to a more attacking style - that's disappointing.  

[VladimirMooc]

The fact that people defend Goodwillie even though a court has found that he raped someone is rank. Happy to see scumbags represent their team provided they score goals. Top stuff. 

Da Vita is pish, by the way. 

[Bairn Necessities]

14 hours ago, Reid said:

Take Robson too please.

No thank you - he's pish.

[Bairn Necessities]

Oh and if Goodwillie isn't guilty of rape, then OJ isn't guilty of murder. 

[WestfieldBairn]

Miller starting the old pals act already

[Rocco]

Can't see any truth in the Goodwillie rumour, De Vita seems much more likely but not exactly excited by the prospect. 
M&M have to take a large chunk of the blame for recent performances.  As others have said, the 5 at the back + holding midfielder formation is designed towards not losing.  In this league (and even with this squad) we should never be resorting to 3 centre halves and a holding midfielder.  M&M don't seem capable of noticing this or changing to a more attacking style - that's disappointing.  

Conte won the league with Chelsea by playing that formation. We are missing the creative player in midfield to link up play and we always end up with 2 of the three midfielders sitting deeper as they both want to pick the ball up off the defence.