The Falkirk FC Thread

[DeeBairn]

2 minutes ago, Branch Ton said:

It’s sub judas sy. 

It's probably not, given that your chairman has publicly stated what he thinks the outcome will be. Given the public statements he's made, any competent lawyer would get a case tossed before it made it to a judge. 

[Pull My Strings]

2 minutes ago, DeeBairn said:

It's probably not, given that your chairman has publicly stated what he thinks the outcome will be. Given the public statements he's made, any competent lawyer would get a case tossed before it made it to a judge. 

With respect, that's absolute bollocks. I say that as a (hopefully) competent lawyer. Parties talk shit about each other all the time before,  during  and after cases without it having any impact on the proceedings.

That being said, Morton are very unlikely to have any sort of claim against Falkirk anyway. Falkirk may (depending on what actually occurred) have breached SFA/SPFL rules regarding inducing an employee of another member club to breach his contract but that's a matter between Falkirk and the SFA/SPFL. Nothing to do with Morton. Morton can submit a complaint to the beaks and hope that Falkirk get hammered but it won't benefit them. Their claim lies against McKinnon for breaching his contract (if that's what he did - again, that depends on what actually occurred). 

That's not to say that there might not be money changing hands between the clubs but if there is it will be because Falkirk are paying on behalf of McKinnon for his breach, not because they have any obligation to Morton. Same thing happened with United and Jobby many moons ago. Falkirk had a good old grumble about United but no substantive claim. Their claim was against McCall. Eventually everyone saw sense and United paid over the odds for Collin Samuel on the understanding that Falkirk would drop any claim they had against McCall - or so the story goes.

[DeeBairn]

9 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

With respect, that's absolute bollocks. I say that as a (hopefully) competent lawyer. Parties talk shit about each other all the time before,  during  and after cases without it having any impact on the proceedings.

That being said, Morton are very unlikely to have any sort of claim against Falkirk anyway. Falkirk may (depending on what actually occurred) have breached SFA/SPFL rules regarding inducing an employee of another member club to breach his contract but that's a matter between Falkirk and the SFA/SPFL. Nothing to do with Morton. Morton can submit a complaint to the beaks and hope that Falkirk get hammered but it won't benefit them. Their claim lies against McKinnon for breaching his contract (if that's what he did - again, that depends on what actually occurred). 

That's not to say that there might not be money changing hands between the clubs but if there is it will be because Falkirk are paying on behalf of McKinnon for his breach, not because they have any obligation to Morton. Same thing happened with United and Jobby many moons ago. Falkirk had a good old grumble about United but no substantive claim. Their claim was against McCall. Eventually everyone saw sense and United paid over the odds for Collin Samuel on the understanding that Falkirk would drop any claim they had against McCall - or so the story goes.

Don't be bringing rational statements in here, this is a football forum. Thank for actually bringing a sensible answer in, not that it will deter any Morton fan. 

 

Rae has probably shut up after taking legal advice. Or he's realised he made an utter fanny of himself. 

[Guest]

.......and of course, McKinnon has (so far) said nothing about why he wanted out of Cappielow so quickly. There’s loads of anecdotal out there, and if any of it true, and McKinnon can substantiate it, then Mr Rae will probably back away from any action whatsoever once he has switched his brain from “transmit” to “receive”.

Of course, if nothing is forthcoming, the least we can expect from the kindergarten Ton group is a claim that £0.5m has been paid, but it’s all hush hush. For most of them though, it’s already dawned on them that their frothy mouthed compensation rants were utter gash, and they have returned from whence they came. Quelle surprise.

[Factoids]

1 hour ago, Fred said:

The problem Falkirk and all other teams with academy's outwith the elite are/were going to have is that the elite academies are going to hoover up all the best players, even more so than before. They are going to be sell it that only by playing in the top tier are you going to develop to be the best player you can be. So, Falkirk and all the other non-elite clubs are going to struggle to recruit players and if by chance they do, Celtic, rangers, etc will come along and take them and pay minimum compensation. It'll barely be worth running an academy for the return. Alternatively, clubs like Falkirk can wait on the drop-outs from the elite academies at 18/19/20 and sign them then and give them the platform to play first team football and develop from there. Take Zak Rudden, Andy Irving. They might not make it in the first team at Rangers and Hearts, but they might at Falkirk if they get released. That's where Falkirk and the rest have to look. And, it doesn't cost the running of an academy.

Commonly known as the "Brentford Model".

[DeeBairn]

2 minutes ago, Factoids said:

Commonly known as the "Brentford Model".

Currently being applied at Rangers, apparently. 

[MrDust]

2 hours ago, Fred said:

The problem Falkirk and all other teams with academy's outwith the elite are/were going to have is that the elite academies are going to hoover up all the best players, even more so than before. They are going to be sell it that only by playing in the top tier are you going to develop to be the best player you can be. So, Falkirk and all the other non-elite clubs are going to struggle to recruit players and if by chance they do, Celtic, rangers, etc will come along and take them and pay minimum compensation. It'll barely be worth running an academy for the return. Alternatively, clubs like Falkirk can wait on the drop-outs from the elite academies at 18/19/20 and sign them then and give them the platform to play first team football and develop from there. Take Zak Rudden, Andy Irving. They might not make it in the first team at Rangers and Hearts, but they might at Falkirk if they get released. That's where Falkirk and the rest have to look. And, it doesn't cost the running of an academy.

Very much what we were doing in anycase with the academy Wallace, Stewart, Biabi and others started elsewhere. I think what hurts most about no academy is that its taken a bit of our identity away for what we were told by the board for the greater good...!!

The Academy had been a massive thing for the club with either players coming through or rescuing us from a financial mess, our biggest transfer in has been whilst we were in the 2nd tier and it was from one our academy players. 

[Fred]

 

12 minutes ago, MrDust said:

Very much what we were doing in anycase with the academy Wallace, Stewart, Biabi and others started elsewhere. I think what hurts most about no academy is that its taken a bit of our identity away for what we were told by the board for the greater good...!!

The Academy had been a massive thing for the club with either players coming through or rescuing us from a financial mess, our biggest transfer in has been whilst we were in the 2nd tier and it was from one our academy players. 

But, I think the issue is will Falkirk get these players at pro-youth level now that the elite academy system is in place and secondly Celtic, Rangers, Hearts are all looking to poach anyone you do have before they sign pro forms.

[Bairnschild]

4 hours ago, ShaggerG said:

Unless he's already a centenarian himself I think there's a fair chance that this may not happen!

Maybe meant drawing rather than being of retirement age!

[Guest]

Regardless, it’s gone for the foreseeable future, and what has replaced it (a new results focussed first team squad), is calamitous.

It all boils down to decision making, and while there is no blueprint that guarantees promotion at a single bound, the numerous errors of judgement have to bring into question the competency amongst the MSG, and the people they appoint  to deliver success on the football field.

Ultimately, they own the club, and if they choose to continue to blunder around with new initiatives and hand those initiatives to people that are clearly way out of their depth, then what we have experienced is what you are going to get over and over again.

Our CEO got his fingers burned badly on the crest copyright fiasco, and then chose to be the chest beating front runner of the “Mitch” clusterfeck, yet it doesn’t seem to have damaged him at all in the eyes of the MSG. To your average fan who takes an interest beyond simply attending on a Saturday, he has long since been written off as another George Craig in a different shirt and tie.

He was also heavily involved beating the drum wrt communication, but now has chosen (or more likely been instructed) to shut the f*ck up about anything that isn’t partner, community or charity related.

[DeeBairn]

23 minutes ago, Duncan Freemason said:

Regardless, it’s gone for the foreseeable future, and what has replaced it (a new results focussed first team squad), is calamitous.

It all boils down to decision making, and while there is no blueprint that guarantees promotion at a single bound, the numerous errors of judgement have to bring into question the competency amongst the MSG, and the people they appoint  to deliver success on the football field.

Ultimately, they own the club, and if they choose to continue to blunder around with new initiatives and hand those initiatives to people that are clearly way out of their depth, then what we have experienced is what you are going to get over and over again.

Our CEO got his fingers burned badly on the crest copyright fiasco, and then chose to be the chest beating front runner of the “Mitch” clusterfeck, yet it doesn’t seem to have damaged him at all in the eyes of the MSG. To your average fan who takes an interest beyond simply attending on a Saturday, he has long since been written off as another George Craig in a different shirt and tie.

He was also heavily involved beating the drum wrt communication, but now has chosen (or more likely been instructed) to shut the f*ck up about anything that isn’t partner, community or charity related.

I reckon we should replace the entire board with a tombola machine full of random management ideas. At the end of each season, we pull out enough balls to make a mission statement, and that is what we go with the next 12 months. 

 

We might end up replacing all match day staff with squirrels and only playing players older than 40. But it's a more coherent vision than we are likely to get. 

[ShaggerG]

35 minutes ago, Bairnschild said:

Maybe meant drawing rather than being of retirement age!

Well, the state pension can't be taken until the state retirement age is reached and it was the state pension he was referring to I think.

[Harry Kinnear]

List of players from twitter who are still free agents.

 

 https://twitter.com/Nareystoepoker/status/1042427223763038208?s=19

 

 

 

 

[DeeBairn]

8 minutes ago, Harry Kinnear said:

List of players from twitter who are still free agents.

 

https://twitter.com/Nareystoepoker/status/1042427223763038208?s=19

 

 

 

 

I'll take every one of them. Which is a sad I dictment of our recruitment. 

 

 

[Harry Kinnear]

I'll take every one of them. Which is a sad I dictment of our recruitment. 
 
 

Yip I think most of these players could do a better job than what we currently have.

[Marshmallo]

Think a problem we'd have there is that St Mirren will be looking to bring in couple of free agents after a similar failed experiment with Jamie Vardy Academy duds. They're a more attractive prospect just now.

Irvine, Quinn, Ross, Smith and Woods are potentially realistic options. Right back has to be the priority.

I'd take Scott MacDonald as well btw, he could still do enough of a turn for one more year.

[DeeBairn]

3 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Think a problem we'd have there is that St Mirren will be looking to bring in couple of free agents after a similar failed experiment with Jamie Vardy Academy duds. They're a more attractive prospect just now.

Irvine, Quinn, Ross, Smith and Woods are potentially realistic options. Right back has to be the priority.

I'd take Scott MacDonald as well btw, he could still do enough of a turn for one more year.

We could get an entire defence out of that list. Shame we can't to them as a swap deal 

 

MacDonald would be a great signing. We'd get 60 Minutes out him then bring on Froxylias for the last half hour. 

[Guest Back Post Misses]

The problem Falkirk and all other teams with academy's outwith the elite are/were going to have is that the elite academies are going to hoover up all the best players, even more so than before. They are going to be sell it that only by playing in the top tier are you going to develop to be the best player you can be. So, Falkirk and all the other non-elite clubs are going to struggle to recruit players and if by chance they do, Celtic, rangers, etc will come along and take them and pay minimum compensation. It'll barely be worth running an academy for the return. Alternatively, clubs like Falkirk can wait on the drop-outs from the elite academies at 18/19/20 and sign them then and give them the platform to play first team football and develop from there. Take Zak Rudden, Andy Irving. They might not make it in the first team at Rangers and Hearts, but they might at Falkirk if they get released. That's where Falkirk and the rest have to look. And, it doesn't cost the running of an academy.

Not convinced 100% with that argument for the following reasons.

Falkirk ran a pre Academy and whilst I agree some would give off to bigger clubs, there is certainly a loyalty with some kids and parents still. Not all of course but that loyalty will be there.

Parents and kids are much more understanding and do look at the pathway to the first team at clubs. We had a good reputation of providing that till Houston arrived. You only need look at Sibbs, Arfield, Kingsley, Mark Stewart and Darren Barr as examples of this.

There has always been kids who were attracted to bigger clubs and I do accept this will probably be stronger. However there has always been movement between clubs. We had got Fulton from Hearts, Wallace from Rangers at 14 McGrandles was at Rangers and we got him at 14.

It is about how good your academy coaches and staff are. We had a good reputation and could attract and keep players because of that.

Look at the the players Livingston have produced. Griffiths and Snodgrass. Airdrie Tony Watt for example shows that smaller clubs do produce good players.

It is the view of experienced people in academies that the new elite league maybe will attract a few more but if you have a good structure and look after kids well you will keep them and attract others.

[GMBairn]

6 hours ago, Bainsfordbairn said:

I'd guess he spoke to someone at Falkirk who knows the details of McKinnon's former contract with Morton. Not that hard to do, given that some of our board members have a reputation for talking freely about things they maybe shouldn't.

That's not evidence of course. It's only knowledge, which can't be substantiated on an internet forum.

History will ultimately provide your evidence. If there is a statement on the Morton website along the lines of "we thank Falkirk for the 100K they gave us for Ray McKinnon" then you'll have been proven right.

Personally, I think your grandchildren will be drawing their old age pensions before such a statement appears.

How long will you wait before accepting that the absence of such a statement proves you wrong? A month? Three months? A year?

 

 

 

 

It was actually more of a punt to wind this guy up more than anything else if I am being honest. I have been involved in something similar in the past (albeit a different line of work) and the contract issue or non issue as it turned out was due to a special clause. 

The type of thing that can often happen when someone who is in charge of a business thinks they know a lot more than they do about how things should be conducted. The Morton chairman strikes me as that sort of character, just because previous generations of his family could run a business he thinks it's in his blood whether he has any talent or knowledge or not. 

The waived compo for a sacking seems like exactly the type of thing that sort of blowhard would think makes him look tough in negotiations but he hasn't got the sense to think about how the reverse of that could impact him.

Thanks for basically confirming it.

[MrDust]

51 minutes ago, Harry Kinnear said:

List of players from twitter who are still free agents.

 

https://twitter.com/Nareystoepoker/status/1042427223763038208?s=19

 

 

 

 

4 or 5 right backs in there !!!