May 2011 Election

[Ad Lib]

In interviews and discussions over the last couple years, he would answer things in such a way that they sounded good and led to the pressure being put on the SNP. Also in discussions, he was quite good at getting his view across, putting people down in a harsh way, and having an answer of some kind to everything. When you consider that because Labour doesn't have a dedicated Scottish leader, then effectively, the twin leaders of Labour in Scotland in the last election were Murphy and Gray. So when Murphy does all that sort of stuff, its only natural to compare him to Gray...and well, Gray doesn't do well.

In fact, here is Iain Gray at work. Remember Wendy Alexander's "Bring it on" farce. Well here was Iain Gray, on live tv:

Edited just to be clear, Murphy is a slimy toad and I loathe him...but he isn't Iain Gray!

Yep. Jim Murphy has a real talent for dismissing people and peddling successfully non sequitur arguments formerly particularly with relation to the SNP and independence and actually more recently, of the cuts the Coalition are having to make as a result of his party's ruining of the public finances.

[Michael W]

Have to agree with the post regarding Murphy - I don't like him much either, but he's a very capable politician. Indeed, he was very recently given a pretty decent post in the shadow cabinet.

Salmond is probably quite glad he doesn't have to deal with him anymore, as he's neither the Scottish Secretary nor the Shadow Scottish Secretary. The new incumbents are probably complete no-hopers who he'll walk all over the way he does with Gray.

[Ad Lib]

By the way XBL if you look at the end of that clip... Scotsman headline "Labour implodes over independence referendum"...

[OldWasp]

I was surprised that the Labour party didnt copy the SNP and parachute in someone decent from Westminster to replace Jack McFlannel. I suppose all the "best" Labour candidates want to be in Westminster - while the "best" of the SNP regard Holyrood as being the big place - and all the dross end up as councillors.

Dont forget pre-Salmond, the SNP were "led" at Holyrood by John Swinney who had a speed of thought and charisma akin to Ian Grey. Although according to people I know in the SNP, he is actually very competent - just has no stage presence.

[xbl]

By the way XBL if you look at the end of that clip... Scotsman headline "Labour implodes over independence referendum"...

My god! Although I guess it would have been hard for even the Scotsman to spin that one.

Dont forget pre-Salmond, the SNP were "led" at Holyrood by John Swinney who had a speed of thought and charisma akin to Ian Grey. Although according to people I know in the SNP, he is actually very competent - just has no stage presence.

I always think Swinney is capable and competent, but as you say, he isn't a charismatic leader, he's a technocrat. So for example, I think that if you did a bit of a comparison, Swinney would do the job well, but wouldn't deal well with any flak and would probably come across quite badly, while Murphy would come across as capable but wouldn't get the job done that well. Alex Salmond represents a good combination IMO, in that he seems pretty much on top of things, while also having a personality and some wit. Iain Gray on the other hand represents the worst combination. No speed of thought and no competence.

As leader, Swinney's policies weren't actually that bad, he just couldn't get his message across well enough.

[Ad Lib]

I was surprised that the Labour party didnt copy the SNP and parachute in someone decent from Westminster to replace Jack McFlannel. I suppose all the "best" Labour candidates want to be in Westminster - while the "best" of the SNP regard Holyrood as being the big place - and all the dross end up as councillors.

Dont forget pre-Salmond, the SNP were "led" at Holyrood by John Swinney who had a speed of thought and charisma akin to Ian Grey. Although according to people I know in the SNP, he is actually very competent - just has no stage presence.

The impression I get of Swinney is that he's very much in the engine room figurehead, but not somebody you'd want to take hold of the wheel.

[xbl]

Interesting set of new polling results:

Labour is holding on to its lead over the SNP but the gap is narrowing between the two parties, according to a new poll.

Popular support for the largest opposition party at Holyrood grew by one point to 40% for Scottish Parliament constituency voting intentions and held steady at 36% in the regional vote.

But the YouGov survey put support for the SNP, which formed the Scottish Government in 2007, up by five points in both votes compared to the last poll at the start of September. The change moves the SNP from 29% to 34% in the constituency vote and from 26% to 31% in the regional vote. About 1,400 people were asked who they would back in an election, shortly after the SNP held its conference in Perth. The survey was held before swingeing cuts were announced in the UK Government's Comprehensive Spending Review.

Support for the Liberal Democrats, who are in coalition with the Conservatives at Westminster, fell in both votes. The Scottish Lib Dems dropped three points to 8% in the constituency vote and dropped four points to 8% in the regional list - two points higher than regional support for the Scottish Green Party. The Scottish Conservatives dropped by two points to 14% in the constituency survey and held at 15% in the regional list. Earlier this month, Lib Dem coalition minister Vince Cable rejected suggestions that his Scottish party may be harmed by the decision to work with the Tories.

The Herald hasn't produced its sources, so I can only look at what they have said, but it looks like that Lib Dem wipeout could be on the cards! Its significant that this comes before the spending cuts were announced, because I can't see them increasing their support. But according to those figures, the Lib Dems will be reduced to the level of a minority party, like the Greens and SSP used to be in the last Parliament. Good.

Labour seem to be holding their support as expected, and the SNP are holding their support, with both parties picking up bits and pieces from the other parties. Can't see past a Labour win, but it could be closer than I expected.

[vikingTON]

If the Lib Dems lose their strength then the SNP could win big in the north though.

[renton]

If the Lib Dems lose their strength then the SNP could win big in the north though.

I've been saying this for a while, even if the Labour vote hardens, a (likely) Liberal Democrat collapse will not benefit them, certainly not at consituency level, only the SNP are within touching distance in these areas.

[Gordon EF]

A minority Labour government looks on the cards next year unfortunately. I can't see them entering a formal coalition with any party (even if the Lib Dems could provide enough MSPs to give a majority).

Could be very interesting given the Labour party's general uselessness, confrontational style and all-round dislikableness.

[AyrshireTon]

I'll probably vote SNP if there are no comedy candidates on the ballot paper. Can't recall them doing anything that's really annoyed me and Salmond is so far removed from being an actual figurehead it's unbelievable.

As ever, during a recession the sheep-like Scottish voters will flock to a Labour party that caused the feckin' mess in the first place.....assuming they can spell it on the paper.

[nessies long lost ghost]

Can't recall them doing anything that's really annoyed me

did you agree with the decision to release Magrahi? Not knocking you or anything, but i think that decision riled alot of people including me.

[xbl]

I had a look at the figures from the 2007 election as a comparison:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/vote2007/scottish_parliment/html/scoreboard_99999.stm

Constituency(2007/poll):

Lab - 32.2% ---- 40% ---- +8%

SNP - 32.9% ---- 34% ---- +2%

Lib - 16.2% ---- 08% ---- -8%

Con - 16.6% ---- 14% ---- -2%

Constituency(2007/poll):

Lab - 29.2% ---- 36% ---- +7%

SNP - 31.0% ---- 31% ---- +0%

Lib - 11.3% ---- 08% ---- -3%

Con - 13.9% ---- 15% ---- +1%

So there is absolutely no evidence of a SNP slump, indeed, these figures are good, because it was assumed that people switched temporarily to the SNP as a protest vote. This shows that the SNP vote has effectively been firmed up, which is a good platform for future years. So its really not all bad. Voters don't appear to be abandoning the SNP. For the Tories too, they were already the third party in the 2007 election, I'd forgotten how bad the Lib Dems did, and the Tories are holding steady in the polls. Their numbers never change much from poll to poll tbh, there is a core that always supports them, and I can't see their vote slumping, so I estimate they will get roughly the same sort of vote come the election.

The Lib Dems however, they are in freefall. The posters make good points about the SNP winning in the north, but I am actually unsure if the Lib Dems will actually lose as badly as I'd hope. They have a strong personal vote in the north thanks to their Westminster MPs, but Renton and VikingTon are correct in that the SNP are best placed to benefit. I really hope the numbers remain this poor for them, because they are irrelevant up here.

Labour's numbers just depress me though. Its not as if people are abandoning the SNP, but people are just flocking back to Labour from everywhere else. I just can't work out exactly why or how, save the usual fuckwittery, Labour get so much support.

[endieinreekie]

I had a look at the figures from the 2007 election as a comparison:

http://news.bbc.co.u...board_99999.stm

Constituency(2007/poll):

Lab - 32.2% ---- 40% ---- +8%

SNP - 32.9% ---- 34% ---- +2%

Lib - 16.2% ---- 08% ---- -8%

Con - 16.6% ---- 14% ---- -2%

Constituency(2007/poll):

Lab - 29.2% ---- 36% ---- +7%

SNP - 31.0% ---- 31% ---- +0%

Lib - 11.3% ---- 08% ---- -3%

Con - 13.9% ---- 15% ---- +1%

So there is absolutely no evidence of a SNP slump, indeed, these figures are good, because it was assumed that people switched temporarily to the SNP as a protest vote. This shows that the SNP vote has effectively been firmed up, which is a good platform for future years. So its really not all bad. Voters don't appear to be abandoning the SNP. For the Tories too, they were already the third party in the 2007 election, I'd forgotten how bad the Lib Dems did, and the Tories are holding steady in the polls. Their numbers never change much from poll to poll tbh, there is a core that always supports them, and I can't see their vote slumping, so I estimate they will get roughly the same sort of vote come the election.

The Lib Dems however, they are in freefall. The posters make good points about the SNP winning in the north, but I am actually unsure if the Lib Dems will actually lose as badly as I'd hope. They have a strong personal vote in the north thanks to their Westminster MPs, but Renton and VikingTon are correct in that the SNP are best placed to benefit. I really hope the numbers remain this poor for them, because they are irrelevant up here.

Labour's numbers just depress me though. Its not as if people are abandoning the SNP, but people are just flocking back to Labour from everywhere else. I just can't work out exactly why or how, save the usual fuckwittery, Labour get so much support.

It will be the usual fuckwittery xbl, traditional labour voters will continue to vote that way because of the fact that there is a Conservative aspect to the UK government. They will see it as a protest vote at a Tory UK government, not realising that they are actually voting for the Scottish Government on seperate issues.

[AyrshireTon]

did you agree with the decision to release Magrahi? Not knocking you or anything, but i think that decision riled alot of people including me.

I felt he was a waste of taxpayer's money.

Interesting that he does not appear to have snuffed it yet.

[Scary Bear]

*Shudder*

Jim Murphy is kind of like how I imagine Iain Gray would be with intelligence. You can tell Murphy has a bit about him and is a 'good politician' but he's a complete c**t.

Like I say, a bit like Iain Gray, except Gray doesn't have much about him and isn't a good politician.

Agree about Salmond though. It's cringeworthy at times, how much better he is at this stuff than most of the people he's up against. Funnily enough, I don't think it wins him as many votes as it should. Partly because people who don't naturally like him and his politics find it very easy to see him as arrogant and partly due to the fact that thousands upon thousands of Scots' idea of a politician is a rotting plank of wood in a red rosette rather than an intelligent, capable human being.

My thoughts exactly, I don't like the man but he comes across as competent.

Iain Grey is a waste of space. It's shocking that he could shortly be running the country and speaks volumes for the dearth of talent among Labour MSPs.

[Scary Bear]

It's a metaphor that underpins a perception. Jim Murphy is regarded as competent as there appears to be an intelligence and motive behind the way he manipulates people with his message. With Iain Gray the impression you get is that he's just sad, incompetent, and has drone-like simplicity. You get the feeling that if the SNP promised to renovate Edinburgh Castle and it was destroyed by an explosion two weeks later, he'd turn up at Holyrood a week on and ask them why they broke their promise to put the velvet curtains in.

Salmond would then reply "Well I don't know what reality Iain Gray is living in, but the last time I checked the castle was destroyed by a terrorist attack, and so, whilst our discussions on how best to maintain the structure of the castle are ongoing, surely even he can forgive me if we haven't yet met our commitment to velvet curtains."

Iain Gray: "YET AGEN THU FURST MINISTUR HASINT GOT ENY ANSIRS! ALEG SAMIND HAZ GON BAK ON HIS PROMIZ TOO THE SKOTTISH PEEPL. DUZ HEE THEN AXEPT THAT WEE CAN'T TRUSTIM WIV INDEPENDENCE *Labour Benches ROAR, thinking they've made a cracking point*"

Alex Salmond: "*look of disbelief and pity* Perhaps... *interrupted by roars from Labour back benches* PERHAPS Iain Gray would like to make it clear to the Scottish electorate that he would rather, following this terrible disaster, the Scottish GOVERNMENT spent TWENTY THOUSAND POUNDS PER CURTAIN for a castle that, in its current state, cannot be safely occupied, at a time when budget restraints from Westminster are the tightest in living memory. I know the Labour Party didn't exactly emerge with much credit out of the expenses scandal, with Ed Joyce charging the taxpayer for paintings as they (and I quote) "looked nice" *pause for ROARS of laughter from all benches bar Labour; camera shoots to Iain Gray with his gritted teeth jawline and shake of the head indicating he denies the facts and the principle* but I didn't realise this profligacy extended quite so institutionally into departmental budgets! *ROAR of support*

ad infinitum.

Iain was on form this morning. He was on the radio making a c**t of himself as usual. The man has no answers, none at all. Ask him what he would do if he was in power and he shits himself and starts ranting on about the banks, global recession, SNP, Tories, Coalition, SNP again. The man is a world class fud. The best wee fud in the world.

[Scary Bear]

Yes the trial is making the SSP look bad but I'd like to point out that its Tommy Sheridan (no longer SSP) getting tried for Perjury not the SSP. The SSP are giving evidence against Sheridan and we will find out who's been lying all this time, its an answer which any keen observer knew even 4 years ago.

The trial is making the SSP look brilliant to prospective future members and candidates. The new recruitment brochures should say 'Join the SSP and your knob will be red raw with the shagging' and 'Vote SSP and we'll get you yer hole'. They are the new Tories.

[Ad Lib]

Iain was on form this morning. He was on the radio making a c**t of himself as usual. The man has no answers, none at all. Ask him what he would do if he was in power and he shits himself and starts ranting on about the banks, global recession, SNP, Tories, Coalition, SNP again. The man is a world class fud. The best wee fud in the world.

[bullywee]

It's a metaphor that underpins a perception. Jim Murphy is regarded as competent as there appears to be an intelligence and motive behind the way he manipulates people with his message. With Iain Gray the impression you get is that he's just sad, incompetent, and has drone-like simplicity. You get the feeling that if the SNP promised to renovate Edinburgh Castle and it was destroyed by an explosion two weeks later, he'd turn up at Holyrood a week on and ask them why they broke their promise to put the velvet curtains in.

Salmond would then reply "Well I don't know what reality Iain Gray is living in, but the last time I checked the castle was destroyed by a terrorist attack, and so, whilst our discussions on how best to maintain the structure of the castle are ongoing, surely even he can forgive me if we haven't yet met our commitment to velvet curtains."

Iain Gray: "YET AGEN THU FURST MINISTUR HASINT GOT ENY ANSIRS! ALEG SAMIND HAZ GON BAK ON HIS PROMIZ TOO THE SKOTTISH PEEPL. DUZ HEE THEN AXEPT THAT WEE CAN'T TRUSTIM WIV INDEPENDENCE *Labour Benches ROAR, thinking they've made a cracking point*"

Alex Salmond: "*look of disbelief and pity* Perhaps... *interrupted by roars from Labour back benches* PERHAPS Iain Gray would like to make it clear to the Scottish electorate that he would rather, following this terrible disaster, the Scottish GOVERNMENT spent TWENTY THOUSAND POUNDS PER CURTAIN for a castle that, in its current state, cannot be safely occupied, at a time when budget restraints from Westminster are the tightest in living memory. I know the Labour Party didn't exactly emerge with much credit out of the expenses scandal, with Ed Joyce charging the taxpayer for paintings as they (and I quote) "looked nice" *pause for ROARS of laughter from all benches bar Labour; camera shoots to Iain Gray with his gritted teeth jawline and shake of the head indicating he denies the facts and the principle* but I didn't realise this profligacy extended quite so institutionally into departmental budgets! *ROAR of support*

ad infinitum.