May 2011 Election

[Supras]

The people who, you know, use the services that the University provides. You know, the University that... pays for the buildings and furnishings, for the libraries, for the lecturers, for the tutors, for the cleaners, for the porters, for the computers, for the wireless campus provision, who pay to build the Halls of Residence and then offer them at subsidised cost to students, who pay for gym facilities and offer use of them at subsidised cost to students, who contribute towards the operation of the SRC, who provide grants to groups like your Legalise Drugs Society.

Universities don't grow on fucking trees. Someone has to pay for them, and that someone is you because you use it.

I'm aware of this but humans are fundamentally selfish, I don't want to pay for it, I want someone else to do it for me - you know what currently happens.

Of course, the government will claim they recoup it in income tax but as someone who plans to leave the country they will not even get me that way.

I'm grateful, and I regularly admit the system is flawed, but as a student why do you want to change it? Surely on a personal level you want minimal outgoings?

It's like the pensioners who talk about the contract in 1947, they signed up for free medical provision and if the deal is going to change, it shouldn't change for them - or something along those lines, you probably know what I mean. I started university on the understanding that I would pay no fees before or afterwards, if you want to change the deal do it for the suckers coming in the next few years. Don't tread on this

[uni]

Obviously this is a Scottish election so we can vote for two parties. My second ballot is going for the SSP (obviously). With the new boundary changes for the election it could influence my voting. It could be a matter of trying to get the local SNP person their deposit back or could be a genuine chance for the Conservatives to take a seat off of Labour. (I would rather have Labour than Conservative...just.) In terms of voting it's; 1st Ballot : SNP/Labour (depending on situation) 2nd Ballot : SSP.

In terms of the SNP government I'm not a critical as many others are. They have obviously been hamstrung by the fact that they are a minority government. They have introduced some good policies such as free bus passes for the elderly, free tuition fees (if my memory serves me right?), free care for the elderly and free school meals for P1-3. These policies are all progressive and are aimed at reducing inequality (whether they do or not is another matter (basically I have not researched this )). However being from the North East of Scotland I am seeing a bad side of the SNP. They have twice made decisions which defy local democracy. Despite being voted down in Aberdeenshire Council, Salmond is letting Trump destroy the Menie Estate with a golf course which will make a minimal contribution to the economy, we also dont need another golf course! They are also endorsing the destruction of Union Terrace Gardens for a concrete jungle which the council cannot afford because Ian Wood is not full funding for it. The council cannot afford to grit the streets but they can afford to subsidise an entrepreneurs project...odd. Anyway I've gone off topic but as a Scottish Government the SNP have done all they can considering the circumstances but they are shit at local authority level.

Since the 2010 General Election my prospective vote (obviously because I couldn't vote so the rest is technically irrelevant but I have followed current events and politics since a young age so here we go) has not changed however since the 2007 Scottish Election is has changed from SNP to SSP. Yes it's true I used to support the SNP. I have always considered myself a socialist and as the SNP has a broad spectrum of members but following the Trump course farce (see above) I changed to an out and out Socialist (this was confirmed following the banking crisis) and found myself in more agreement with the SSP's main policies rather than the SNP's. I may have swayed towards the SNP and Labour as well possibly as my dislike for the Conservatives and the Lib Dems is getting more deep.

I've even bored myself writing all that.

[HibeeJibee]

Obviously this is a Scottish election so we can vote for two parties. My second ballot is going for the SSP (obviously).

Sordid Sex Partys, going by today's relevations?

[Ad Lib]

I'm aware of this but humans are fundamentally selfish, I don't want to pay for it, I want someone else to do it for me - you know what currently happens.

The prosecution fucking rests on the people of Scotland. This is the psyche that will destroy our society.

Of course, the government will claim they recoup it in income tax but as someone who plans to leave the country they will not even get me that way.

I'm grateful, and I regularly admit the system is flawed, but as a student why do you want to change it? Surely on a personal level you want minimal outgoings?

The income tax thing is completely bogus as is doesn't follow that someone who graduates will a) get a graduate job b) get a job c) definitely earn more than if they got a non-graduate job. A lifetime is also an incredibly slow return time, by which time inflation renders it worthless.

Because I believe in a fairer system where services are actually paid for by the people who use them and I also believe in balancing the books. The current system does neither.

It's like the pensioners who talk about the contract in 1947, they signed up for free medical provision and if the deal is going to change, it shouldn't change for them - or something along those lines, you probably know what I mean. I started university on the understanding that I would pay no fees before or afterwards, if you want to change the deal do it for the suckers coming in the next few years. Don't tread on this

The medical care one is completely distinguishable and a non sequitur. They've paid taxes throughout their lives to (in part) cover the cost of the care that is provided to them. You are a student. The only tax you've paid in all your life is VAT. You've not paid your way. If you won't pay the endowment, which by the way would only kick in after you've graduated (hence "graduate endowment") then feel free to drop out.

Harsh, but fair.

[uni]

Sordid Sex Partys, going by today's relevations?

Yes the trial is making the SSP look bad but I'd like to point out that its Tommy Sheridan (no longer SSP) getting tried for Perjury not the SSP. The SSP are giving evidence against Sheridan and we will find out who's been lying all this time, its an answer which any keen observer knew even 4 years ago.

[Ad Lib]

I can see Labour bringing it back, after all, was it not theirs (and the Libs) scheme in the first place? I don't actually have a problem with it. I like the council tax freeze, I like free prescriptions (although they don't have any impact on me since I don't believe in Doctors), but I didn't see the benefit of scrapping the endowment or bridge tolls. I think Labour might get away with it, given that much of their electorate are low life scum who hate students.

Well, not strictly true, actually. It was the result of Andrew Cubie's Independent Review into student finances, which was broadly (but conditionally) endorsed by all parties. The main deviations at the time were that the then Scottish Executive abolished tuition fees a year earlier than had been suggested and the Tories and SNP had tried to amend the graduate endowment element so that it would kick in at a higher graduate income level but be a larger figure (as the cross-party Cubie review had suggested, rather than what Labour eventually forced through as part of the compromise with the Lib Dems who had pushed the tuition fees bit hard).

I thought the bridge tolls one was a bit daft too. Unless it was costing more to man than it was taking in, it makes perfect sense to meet its and the wider road network's costs by charging tolls. Exactly the same is done in other countries with motorways that are privately owned and the quality of maintenance and general driver experience is excellent.

[Law Stud]

To pick you up on road tolls Ad Lib in the US they are preparing for elections right now and as a result the TV is full of adverts from candidates smearing each other. One of the adverts in Orlando was that one of the candidates raise road tolls by $135,000,000 per annum (in loose change), that he attempted to sell toll roads to Arabs and that he built his own personal road from his house to Disney World. It seems to be quite a hot topic out there. However I have to agree with you the experience of driving down the 417 is so much better than sitting on the M8 and they don't pay car tax, road tax and petrol is just $2.75 per gallon.

[Monster]

Are you seriously also saying you'd rather have Iain Gray representing Scotland to the world?

Absolutely not, which is why I won't be voting.

[Gordon EF]

Jim Murphy did a decent job for Labour as Scottish Secretary. They should 'do an SNP' and get a high profile politician like him to lead the Scottish Labour party and give them some credibility. There are so few decent MSPs that Salmond looks like a god among them.

*Shudder*

Jim Murphy is kind of like how I imagine Iain Gray would be with intelligence. You can tell Murphy has a bit about him and is a 'good politician' but he's a complete c**t.

Like I say, a bit like Iain Gray, except Gray doesn't have much about him and isn't a good politician.

Agree about Salmond though. It's cringeworthy at times, how much better he is at this stuff than most of the people he's up against. Funnily enough, I don't think it wins him as many votes as it should. Partly because people who don't naturally like him and his politics find it very easy to see him as arrogant and partly due to the fact that thousands upon thousands of Scots' idea of a politician is a rotting plank of wood in a red rosette rather than an intelligent, capable human being.

[Ad Lib]

*Shudder*

Jim Murphy is kind of like how I imagine Iain Gray would be with intelligence. You can tell Murphy has a bit about him and is a 'good politician' but he's a complete c**t.

Spot on. In a weird way I actually have admiration for how much of an unapologetic slimeball Jim Murphy is. He's like the lovechild of Ed Balls and Peter Mandelson.

Like I say, a bit like Iain Gray, except Gray doesn't have much about him and isn't a good politician.

Gray has nothing about him and isn't a poltiician

[xbl]

*Shudder*

Jim Murphy is kind of like how I imagine Iain Gray would be with intelligence. You can tell Murphy has a bit about him and is a 'good politician' but he's a complete c**t.

Spot on. In a weird way I actually have admiration for how much of an unapologetic slimeball Jim Murphy is. He's like the lovechild of Ed Balls and Peter Mandelson.

Aye, you really are spot on. I loathe Jim Murphy primarily because he's a slimy reptile, but I do have to acknowledge he is a decent politician.

Gray doesn't have much about him and isn't a good politician.

Gray has nothing about him and isn't a poltiician

Thats our future First Minister! A popular one too apparently, with Labour 10 points ahead of the SNP, this just about hands Gray a strong mandate to govern. Sigh.

[banterman86]

Out of interest, what do people base their opinion of Jim Murphy;s competence against iain Gray on?

[Ad Lib]

Out of interest, what do people base their opinion of Jim Murphy's competence against Iain Gray on?

Jim Murphy's opponents loathe having to face him. They know they've got their strategy right, but that he plays dirty and will inflict a few injuries when the ref isn't looking.

Iain Gray's opponents almost feel guilty about making him look like such a clown. Whenever I watch FMQs Salmond seems to be the Aberdeen top scorer feeling a wee bit guilty and embarrassed about having been passed the ball by the Hibs (playing like Huntly) goalkeeper (Iain Gray) to knock in his 8th goal of the afternoon. At least when Tavish Scott asks him questions the impression is that it's like Kilmarnock losing predictably 2-0 at Pittodrie after a couple of careless defensive errors and a comfortable set of stops by the terrier Sturgeon in goal. When Goldie confronts Salmond, it seems like a few draws are being ground out by the Tories (perhaps we should call them Inverness in this example?), with Salmond occasionally being made to look a tad silly, but ultimately having the numerical upper-hand.

[banterman86]

Jim Murphy's opponents loathe having to face him. They know they've got their strategy right, but that he plays dirty and will inflict a few injuries when the ref isn't looking.

Iain Gray's opponents almost feel guilty about making him look like such a clown. Whenever I watch FMQs Salmond seems to be the Aberdeen top scorer feeling a wee bit guilty and embarrassed about having been passed the ball by the Hibs (playing like Huntly) goalkeeper (Iain Gray) to knock in his 8th goal of the afternoon. At least when Tavish Scott asks him questions the impression is that it's like Kilmarnock losing predictably 2-0 at Pittodrie after a couple of careless defensive errors and a comfortable set of stops by the terrier Sturgeon in goal. When Goldie confronts Salmond, it seems like a few draws are being ground out by the Tories (perhaps we should call them Inverness in this example?), with Salmond occasionally being made to look a tad silly, but ultimately having the numerical upper-hand.

Nicely written.

This is all metaphors though.

[Ad Lib]

Nicely written.

This is all metaphors though.

It's a metaphor that underpins a perception. Jim Murphy is regarded as competent as there appears to be an intelligence and motive behind the way he manipulates people with his message. With Iain Gray the impression you get is that he's just sad, incompetent, and has drone-like simplicity. You get the feeling that if the SNP promised to renovate Edinburgh Castle and it was destroyed by an explosion two weeks later, he'd turn up at Holyrood a week on and ask them why they broke their promise to put the velvet curtains in.

Salmond would then reply "Well I don't know what reality Iain Gray is living in, but the last time I checked the castle was destroyed by a terrorist attack, and so, whilst our discussions on how best to maintain the structure of the castle are ongoing, surely even he can forgive me if we haven't yet met our commitment to velvet curtains."

Iain Gray: "YET AGEN THU FURST MINISTUR HASINT GOT ENY ANSIRS! ALEG SAMIND HAZ GON BAK ON HIS PROMIZ TOO THE SKOTTISH PEEPL. DUZ HEE THEN AXEPT THAT WEE CAN'T TRUSTIM WIV INDEPENDENCE *Labour Benches ROAR, thinking they've made a cracking point*"

Alex Salmond: "*look of disbelief and pity* Perhaps... *interrupted by roars from Labour back benches* PERHAPS Iain Gray would like to make it clear to the Scottish electorate that he would rather, following this terrible disaster, the Scottish GOVERNMENT spent TWENTY THOUSAND POUNDS PER CURTAIN for a castle that, in its current state, cannot be safely occupied, at a time when budget restraints from Westminster are the tightest in living memory. I know the Labour Party didn't exactly emerge with much credit out of the expenses scandal, with Ed Joyce charging the taxpayer for paintings as they (and I quote) "looked nice" *pause for ROARS of laughter from all benches bar Labour; camera shoots to Iain Gray with his gritted teeth jawline and shake of the head indicating he denies the facts and the principle* but I didn't realise this profligacy extended quite so institutionally into departmental budgets! *ROAR of support*

ad infinitum.

[xbl]

...ad infinitum.

And cue some of the media referring to Iain Gray "inflicting a tangible blow on Salmond", and "leaving him lost for words" (which is often pretty close to the truth to be fair). Your footballing post, and that post above are exactly as I see it.

[banterman86]

It's a metaphor that underpins a perception.

Yes, I know, I'm not trying to be difficult, honest. I'm asking what Murphy has done that has specifcally impressed people?

[doulikefish]

Yes, I know, I'm not trying to be difficult, honest. I'm asking what Murphy has done that has specifcally impressed people?

Feck all,he is a slimy toad of a man

[Ad Lib]

Yes, I know, I'm not trying to be difficult, honest. I'm asking what Murphy has done that has specifcally impressed people?

Not made a complete tit of himself every week, and occasionally inflicted a few blows on his opposite number, I'd say.

[xbl]

Yes, I know, I'm not trying to be difficult, honest. I'm asking what Murphy has done that has specifcally impressed people?

In interviews and discussions over the last couple years, he would answer things in such a way that they sounded good and led to the pressure being put on the SNP. Also in discussions, he was quite good at getting his view across, putting people down in a harsh way, and having an answer of some kind to everything. When you consider that because Labour doesn't have a dedicated Scottish leader, then effectively, the twin leaders of Labour in Scotland in the last election were Murphy and Gray. So when Murphy does all that sort of stuff, its only natural to compare him to Gray...and well, Gray doesn't do well.

In fact, here is Iain Gray at work. Remember Wendy Alexander's "Bring it on" farce. Well here was Iain Gray, on live tv:

Edited just to be clear, Murphy is a slimy toad and I loathe him...but he isn't Iain Gray!

Edited again, jesus fucking christ. I'd forgotten just how absolutely awful that video is. Watch it people, and remember that he is likely to be the top man in Scotland.