Savage Henry Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 http://www.heraldsco. ..ed-up-1.1100467 Wow! Coming from Foulkes too! Promptly to be followed by any number of others, I don't doubt. I'm genuinely depressed at how transparent our politicians are. Jump on whatever seems popular at the time. How many politicians are lamenting the failure of the AV vote? Funnily enough they all supported it when they wanted the Lib Dems on their side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 Promptly to be followed by any number of others, I don't doubt. I'm genuinely depressed at how transparent our politicians are. Jump on whatever seems popular at the time. How many politicians are lamenting the failure of the AV vote? Funnily enough they all supported it when they wanted the Lib Dems on their side. Its a good thing in this case though. Federalism could be the new "settled will of the Scottish people" (2012 version). If the SNP can deliver that (and bear in mind that the legacy of their 2007 term was the delivery of more power for Scotland), then even if the ultimate referendum is somehow lost right now, full federalism will clear the way for us to take the final step in a decade or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryfield Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Its a good thing in this case though. Federalism could be the new "settled will of the Scottish people" (2012 version). If the SNP can deliver that (and bear in mind that the legacy of their 2007 term was the delivery of more power for Scotland), then even if the ultimate referendum is somehow lost right now, full federalism will clear the way for us to take the final step in a decade or so. If the final step is full independence, I can't see it happening after the dilution of overall demands being met somewhere in the middle with a compromise by the SNP and London. As was said, Foulkes is a bandwagon jumper, if his wishes are seen to being met then he and the Labour and Tory parties will declare victory and divert any talk of full independence off the political agenda for good. Only the staunchest of Nationalist will continue to demand total separation and we know that there are fewer of them than there are people who just don't want too much upheaval that full independence would bring. (see vote break down from Thursday). Labour and Tory leaders failed to haggle when it came to Scotland, no 50/50 or 70/30 deals, it bit them both on the arse. Big style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Does Salmond have a wee look of the Berlusconi in that picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 http://www.heraldsco...ed-up-1.1100467 Wow! Coming from Foulkes too! That is some conversion. He is a price clown mind so i would take anything he says with a ton of salt. Good to see Labours vision though. How many more sacred cows will be sacrificed on Labours alter of desperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Promptly to be followed by any number of others, I don't doubt. I'm genuinely depressed at how transparent our politicians are. Jump on whatever seems popular at the time. How many politicians are lamenting the failure of the AV vote? Funnily enough they all supported it when they wanted the Lib Dems on their side. Fedaralism is probably more inevitable than any other scenario. I doubt very much Scots will vote to pull out of the UK complely but this would give our own politicians control over taxation and will then make them accountable for their own actions rather than simply making them managers over whatever pocket money they are given. I'm quite sure that this is the road we are travelling now whether we like it or not. Would that please the Welsh and the Ulstermen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowfer_Lichtie Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Taking a break from public sector economics. My main query here is what do the SNP actually mean by independence? At it's most basic level, I would assume that it means complete separation from the United Kingdom and the necessary development of unique and specific Scottish institutions and services such as armed forces, foreign embassies, revenue and customs currency etc. My understanding is that the SNP want to retain the £ sterling, share foreign embassies and I am not to sure about armed forces? Within the SNP there is the fundamentallist wing and the gradualist wing and it is simple enough to see the difference between them, but do they share the same definition of independence? We also need to bear in mind that in a number of important areas Scotland is already independent, particularly in terms of education and law. With devoultion we have also had much more policy independence, with fiscal, economi and social ties to the union remaining. What is the next step? The more I think about it, the more I can see some form of Federalist solution or full fiscal autonomy being the preferred course of action. This would allow Scotland and the Scottish people to go our own way in the vast majority of areas, with the exception of defence and foreign affairs, which to my mind should not be huge concerns for us at this stage. In short, I cannot say which way I would vote in a referrendum until someone confirms what this would mean in a practical sense. The basic principle of deciding what's best for your own country, with its own unique conditions is attractive though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Freud Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Would that please the Welsh and the Ulstermen? Nothing pleases the Welsh. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Fedaralism is probably more inevitable than any other scenario. I doubt very much Scots will vote to pull out of the UK complely but this would give our own politicians control over taxation and will then make them accountable for their own actions rather than simply making them managers over whatever pocket money they are given. I'm quite sure that this is the road we are travelling now whether we like it or not. Would that please the Welsh and the Ulstermen? Federalism could be great. We could have a Scotland-Teuchtar region for all the fannies that can't say seven properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Freud Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 That is some conversion. He is a price clown mind so i would take anything he says with a ton of salt. Good to see Labours vision though. How many more sacred cows will be sacrificed on Labours alter of desperation. I wonder if they are just after disillusioned Lib Dems. To the best of my knowledge, Labour have NEVER mooted a federation of states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Nothing pleases the Welsh. Ever. That's because Wales was never an independent country and is a constituent part of the Kingdom of England. Cornwall has a good a shout to be independent as the bleating welsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 That's because Wales was never an independent country and is a constituent part of the Kingdom of England. Cornwall has a good a shout to be independent as the bleating welsh. That's complete rubbish, but carry on. (Wales is a separate principality and after the referendum in March this year will start to develop its own laws/legal system for the first time in about 600 years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 That's complete rubbish, but carry on. (Wales is a separate principality and after the referendum in March this year will start to develop its own laws/legal system for the first time in about 600 years). Is it f**k. Show me proof Wales is a principality. There's not a document that says it. (principality is a sop to keep the taffs happy) Wales has been governed as an integral part of England since the 14th Century. No welsh army has won a war versus the English. There wasn't a welsh parliament before english takeover. It wasn't recognised as a state before the English conquered. Did the English conquer them? Well it could be argued it was an internal conflict back then and not one between nations. The welsh have did a great propogranda job in asserting their nationality. Fair okay to them, but it's still part of England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Is it f**k. Show me proof Wales is a principality. There's not a document that says it. (principality is a sop to keep the taffs happy) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Wales De jure no- de facto, yes Wales has been governed as an integral part of England since the 14th Century. Yes, after all there are absolutely no differences between, say the Church of England and the churches in Wales/ Absolutely none/ No welsh army has won a war versus the English. There wasn't a welsh parliament before english takeover. It wasn't recognised as a state before the English conquered. I refer you to the brief wikpedia outline above. Suffice it to say, it took the English a good couple of centuries to completely subjugate the Welsh. The ring of famous castles in North Wales were built to entrench English dominance over that area which they had to battle extremely hard for, over a long period of time. See also Offa's Dyke. That doesn't sound to me like a resistance-free blitzkrieg, but carry on. There was a Welsh parliament, in Machynlleth, as late as 1415. Did the English conquer them? Well it could be argued it was an internal conflict back then and not one between nations. If you don't know what you're talking about, I guess it could. The welsh have did a great propogranda job in asserting their nationality. Fair okay to them, but it's still part of England. (I'm sensing a completely unjustified and groundless chauvinism here. Who says Scots haven't internalised English perceptions during the time of the Union) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chico Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 ^ nice try but you're wrong. No proof Wales was a functional country ever. As for your stuff on principality:- Extant royal primogenitures styled as principalities include Asturias (Spain), and Wales (UK). The term "principality" is often used informally to describe Wales as it currently exists, but this has no constitutional basis. The Principality of Wales existed in the northern and western areas of Wales between the 13th and 16th centuries; the Laws in Wales Act of 1536 which legally incorporated Wales within England removed the distinction between those areas and the March of Wales, but no principality covering the whole of Wales was created. Since that time, the title Prince of Wales (together with Duke of Cornwall among other titles) has traditionally been granted to the heir to the reigning monarch of the United Kingdom, but it confers no responsibilities for government in Wales.[1] Not a county or a principality, but an administrative convience as a subdivision of the Kingdom of England. Read this http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituent_country And http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Apologies if this has been posted earlier, but I think Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) deserves some credit for taking defeat on the chin magnanimously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowfer_Lichtie Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Apologies if this has been posted earlier, but I think Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) deserves some credit for taking defeat on the chin magnanimously. I remember seeing this a few pages ago. What a wallapor (sp?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 I remember seeing this a few pages ago. What a wallapor (sp?). She had already set her stall out in her "Election blog" when whining about some stupid Facebook group. You only need to look at her to know she is a daft wee wummin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Link? Sounds hilarious. http://cathypeattie.org.uk/ Mwah ha ha ha ha.... I have lived in Grangemouth all my life. I am proud to have represented Grangemouth, Bo’ness and the villages and communities that make up the Falkirk East constituency since I was first elected to the Scottish Parliament in 1999. It is right to take pride in the area where you live. It is wrong to take advantage of people who have expressed that pride. Yet that, it appears, is what has happened to people on Facebook who signed up to a group to celebrate the good things about Grangemouth. When the group had over 600 folk signed up, the name was changed to make it party political. People who think that such nationalist dirty tricks are definitely not one of the good things about Grangemouth, complained to me that this is an abuse of our town (and of Facebook). I am inclined to agree with them, but I think that such actions will do the SNP no good whatsoever. Only their own dyed-in-the-wool supporters are likely to approve, and fair-minded people will note the deceit and judge them accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/federalist-future-talked-up-1.1100467 Wow! Coming from Foulkes too! I wonder if they are just after disillusioned Lib Dems. To the best of my knowledge, Labour have NEVER mooted a federation of states. Quite. Bunch of fucking hypocrites like Foulkes saying they're federalists... are they f**k. The only party who can lay claim to believe in federalism is the Lib Dems and under recent "leadership" at Holyrood even we can't claim that with that much integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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