Arnold Clark Horror Stories

[deej]

1 hour ago, Gaz FFC said:

I guess the point I'm making is ahead of taking out a 4 year finance deal.

If I lease a car and every 3 years get a new 1 after 12 years I've had 4 cars and own f**k all.

If I buy a car via a loan from the bank or finance from the dealer after 4 years I can sell the car or trade it in against a new 1.

We all agree on here renting a flat is throwing money away ahead of a mortgage so why is leasing a car not a shitey con????

Surely a new car every 3 years isn't the only selling point worth mentioning?

The MOT part is a bit weak given in year 4 and it's 1st MOT I'd be spewing if it didn't sail through with zero work needed.

ETA also you mention "higher initial cost", I've seen lease agreements with a down payment 1st.

Probably not the best person to defend them, as while I've been looking into PCP etc. I've never leased/hired/whatever a car, running a 09 Swift at the moment until it can't run anymore. So I have no argument here haha

[pozbaird]

2 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

Pour boiling water on a window with a seal?
Wtf

You boil a kettle, walk out to your car, pour some on a sticker which measures about 6 inches x 1 inches, not on a freezing day, obviously, why do anything that involves hot water on metal on a freezing day. You aren’t dousing your seals with boiling water. It simply softens up an Arnold Clark sticker which then easily peels off the rear window. This works, it does not damage the car, minimal hot water is required on a very small area. I have bought cars from Arnold Clark since nineteen-canteen, and I have never, ever, created a ‘WTF’ situation by fcuking up anything other than the sticker. Hold on ‘til I double-check my wife’s Polo outside...

I’m back. Fcuk-all to report. Next question please.

Edited October 11, 2019 by pozbaird

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

Think I've asked on here before but if I'm asking again I assume I wasn't given a decent answer.
Why get a lease ahead of buying a car?
Unless I'm missing something obvious a lease has only 1 benefit and that's a new car every 3 years.
From seeing the price per month they aren't even cheap.
What am I missing?

The key to this is how long you keep cars for. If you keep a car for 5 years then buying makes sense.

If you change car every 1, 2 or 3 years then the answer is typically worked out by total cost vs depreciation.

Eg, let's take a car which retails at 20k and after 3 years is worth 10k so 50% depreciation.

You could maybe lease this for a total of 5k for 3 years so you've only put in 5k.

If you buy it you may get a deal and get it for 16k but after 3 years it's worth 10k and you've put in 6k so by leasing you are a grand 'up'.

Leasing after the manufacturer's warranty has expired is pointless as well.

Pros and cons of both methods but if you swap cars regularly then it's possible to beat depreciation by leasing.

[welshbairn]

14 minutes ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said:

Eg, let's take a car which retails at 20k and after 3 years is worth 10k

That's when I buy and run it till the bills start mounting to get through the MOT, then repeat. If you're not bothered about having a recent plate number it has to be the cheapest way to own a car.

[bsd]

4 hours ago, pozbaird said:

You boil a kettle, walk out to your car, pour some on a sticker which measures about 6 inches x 1 inches, not on a freezing day, obviously, why do anything that involves hot water on metal on a freezing day. You aren’t dousing your seals with boiling water. It simply softens up an Arnold Clark sticker which then easily peels off the rear window. This works, it does not damage the car, minimal hot water is required on a very small area. I have bought cars from Arnold Clark since nineteen-canteen, and I have never, ever, created a ‘WTF’ situation by fcuking up anything other than the sticker. Hold on ‘til I double-check my wife’s Polo outside...

I’m back. Fcuk-all to report. Next question please.

I removed mine with a hairdryer. Heat it up a bit and it just peels off. Takes a couple of minutes. Works perfectly. You do feel a bit strange out on the drive blow drying the rear window of your car though.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, bsd said:

I removed mine with a hairdryer. Heat it up a bit and it just peels off. Takes a couple of minutes. Works perfectly. You do feel a bit strange out on the drive blow drying the rear window of your car though.

I've got a tinted rear window which I didn't want, came with the second hand car. Bit worried that a hair dryer or boiling water might f**k it up without doing the whole job of removing it along with the garage label.

[Guest Moomintroll]

I guess the point I'm making is ahead of taking out a 4 year finance deal.
If I lease a car and every 3 years get a new 1 after 12 years I've had 4 cars and own f**k all.
If I buy a car via a loan from the bank or finance from the dealer after 4 years I can sell the car or trade it in against a new 1.
We all agree on here renting a flat is throwing money away ahead of a mortgage so why is leasing a car not a shitey con????
Surely a new car every 3 years isn't the only selling point worth mentioning?
The MOT part is a bit weak given in year 4 and it's 1st MOT I'd be spewing if it didn't sail through with zero work needed.
ETA also you mention "higher initial cost", I've seen lease agreements with a down payment 1st.

That is the way I look at it, had Company Cars for years with nothing to show but a heavy BIK tax bill. Buy nearly new & you have a warranty that covers major mechanical failures so only have to worry about wear and tear. Pay off the loan or HP after 3-4 years then you are left with an asset as long as you dont have to pay 2-2.5k plus on repairs, servicing & MOTs. Trade in after 8 or 9 years when it is on it's last legs and repeat.

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

I guess the point I'm making is ahead of taking out a 4 year finance deal.
If I lease a car and every 3 years get a new 1 after 12 years I've had 4 cars and own f**k all.
If I buy a car via a loan from the bank or finance from the dealer after 4 years I can sell the car or trade it in against a new 1.
We all agree on here renting a flat is throwing money away ahead of a mortgage so why is leasing a car not a shitey con????
Surely a new car every 3 years isn't the only selling point worth mentioning?
The MOT part is a bit weak given in year 4 and it's 1st MOT I'd be spewing if it didn't sail through with zero work needed.
ETA also you mention "higher initial cost", I've seen lease agreements with a down payment 1st.

A loan to buy a car outright in 3 years will be much more per month than the lease cost.

Houses/flats tend to appreciate over time. 99.9% of cars depreciate over time. That's why renting a home is looked upon as the worst option for the majority of people.

The general rule is if it appreciates buy it, if it depreciaties lease it

[harry94]

3 hours ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said:

Pros and cons of both methods but if you swap cars regularly then it's possible to beat depreciation by leasing.

No, it's really not.

Fair enough if you understand what you are getting into and have a compulsive need to get a new car every year, that's fine but you aren't at all beating the passage of time.

When you are taking out a PCP deal, you are also buying a financial instrument for the whole time you use the car. Effectively, you are likely paying around ten fold of your fuel costs per mile for someone else to service the car in the cheapest years of its operation (and when major issues are on the manufacturers side). With a car you buy, that instrument stops to a halt and you have an asset of some sort at the end of a duration.

As a I say, it's fine if you totally get what you're doing and work with that in mind but I think a lot of people do get targeted with it, there's a reason why car dealerships are so keen to push the PCP thing and it's not because they aren't the ones making the most out of it.

[Gaz FFC]

22 hours ago, Am Featha *****h Nan Clach said:

23 hours ago, Gaz FFC said:

I guess the point I'm making is ahead of taking out a 4 year finance deal.
If I lease a car and every 3 years get a new 1 after 12 years I've had 4 cars and own f**k all.
If I buy a car via a loan from the bank or finance from the dealer after 4 years I can sell the car or trade it in against a new 1.
We all agree on here renting a flat is throwing money away ahead of a mortgage so why is leasing a car not a shitey con????
Surely a new car every 3 years isn't the only selling point worth mentioning?
The MOT part is a bit weak given in year 4 and it's 1st MOT I'd be spewing if it didn't sail through with zero work needed.
ETA also you mention "higher initial cost", I've seen lease agreements with a down payment 1st.

I've had this conversation with a few friends recently and 'you get a new one every 3 years' is what attracts them. I prefer to buy a quality new(ish) car and get a good 8+ years out of it. I'm not a car person and don't care about it being a newer model so PCP is never going to be for me.

Seems about the only argument for a lease to be honest.

I'd always assumed that a lease would come with cheaper prices per month to tempt you in but I see the adverts and the price per month isn't enough to tempt me anywhere near them.

I'm about to buy the wife a new(ish)) car and the lease will be given a body swerve.

Thanks to everyone who replied. Top lads.

[mac.i]

No, it's really not.
Fair enough if you understand what you are getting into and have a compulsive need to get a new car every year, that's fine but you aren't at all beating the passage of time.
When you are taking out a PCP deal, you are also buying a financial instrument for the whole time you use the car. Effectively, you are likely paying around ten fold of your fuel costs per mile for someone else to service the car in the cheapest years of its operation (and when major issues are on the manufacturers side). With a car you buy, that instrument stops to a halt and you have an asset of some sort at the end of a duration.
As a I say, it's fine if you totally get what you're doing and work with that in mind but I think a lot of people do get targeted with it, there's a reason why car dealerships are so keen to push the PCP thing and it's not because they aren't the ones making the most out of it.

A PCP is not a lease; it's a purchase product with the balloon payment deferred to lower the monthly payment. You have 3 options at the end 1 trade in and hope you have enough equity in the car for your next deposit, 2 hand it back and walk away, 3 pay the balloon and own the car.

A lease is not a purchase product; you are simply renting it and you have no option to own the car.

The two are often confused because in the main people trade in and start a new PCP agreement.

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

Which £20k value car are you talking about leasing for £100 per month?

None it was just a basic example of how it works in general as opposed to anything specific.

Apologies for any confusion caused.

[RandomGuy.]

6 hours ago, oaksoft said:

 

Unless you have the price of a new car sitting in your bank there aren't any other options are there?

I went for a bank loan. 

£10k, which I pay back at £180 a month. Own the car so if anything changes/want a change, I can sell the car for the full amount then decide my next move.

Seemed the best for me as it let's me own the car and allows me security to get rid of the car if it begins to cause issues rather than being completely tied to it.

[Al B]

Fairly simplified.....

If you are looking at a car that costs 30 grand, and you take out a loan or finance for that amount over say...48 months, then your cost per month is 30 grand divided by 48 - £625, (plus interest)

If you're looking at that same car with a 48 month lease, then the leasing company project what they think the car will be worth at the end of that period, and your cost per month is the difference between those two numbers (the amount it depreciates over the time you have it), divided by 48. Say they project it will be worth 18 grand at the end of the 4 years...your cost per month is 12 grand divided by 48 - £250 (plus interest). You only pay for 4 years worth of the cars total value, as opposed to paying it all. That's why you have to stick to a mileage allowance while you have it, because the value of the car at the end of your lease + the total of all your monthly payments during the lease, have to equal the initial value of the car. Higher mileage means the first part of that equation is lower, so the total monthly payments have to be higher to balance it out.

tl;dr - It allows you to drive a much nicer car than you could otherwise afford.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Al B

[DA Baracus]

 Nicer or better value for money (in terms of running costs)?

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Al B said:

Say they project it will be worth 18 grand at the end of the 4 years.

Big leap of faith from them there surely, 10-15 I would have thought. And if it's a decent car it could easily last another eight years with little upkeep. So the leasing argument is only for people who want to drive newish cars all the time, not for economics to get from A to B.

[Al B]

5 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Big leap of faith from them there surely, 10-15 I would have thought. And if it's a decent car it could easily last another eight years with little upkeep. So the leasing argument is only for people who want to drive newish cars all the time, not for economics to get from A to B.

I just picked a random number somewhere in the middle for the sake of explaination.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Al B

[D.A.F.C]

There is a high risk of cracking your windscreen if you use boiling water on it.
It's really not worth it to remove a small sticker.

Its idiotic to put boiling water anywhere near a car.

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, D.A.F.C said:

9 hours ago, oaksoft said:

There is a high risk of cracking your windscreen if you use boiling water on it.
It's really not worth it to remove a small sticker.

Its idiotic to put boiling water anywhere near a car.

This is why the car kettle never took off.

[UsedToGoToCentralPark]

 Nicer or better value for money (in terms of running costs)?

Potentially both as leasing companies have much bigger buying power they can get much bigger discounts on certain models than we can walking into a dealership. 

So that 6000SUX might list price at 50k, we could buy it from a dealer for 45k but a leasing company could get it for 38k.

 

Assuming it's worth 25k in 3 years then on a PCP you would have paid 20k but if the leasing company keeps 2k then you've only paid 15k on a lease.

 

If you hand back the PCP car you are in the same position as handing back the lease car but have paid more.

 

With the PCP you can buy it, with the lease you need to find what auction it's going to.

 

The other option is to buy it for 45k.

 

And just for clarity everyone's requirements are different which is why there are many ways to be in possession of a vehicle.