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Banning the burqa


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Can you explain in what way "the burqa is an act of freedom by women"?

I just did a google...

As for niqab wearer Aminah Delgado, whatever is going on in the world, she is adamant that she has the right to cover: "This is what I want to do to get closer to Allah. I'm not harming anyone. I won't take it (my niqab) off. It's very important to me. I won't take it off."

That poor, oppressed woman.:(

Edited to add, just to repeat (for the 3 millionth time), I'm not in favour of it myself. However, I don't believe in removing a womans right to choose.

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I've known several muslim women, some of whom are "casual" muslim and some of whom are "extreme" muslim. They all agree unanimously that the burkha is a symbol of religious tyranny and opression against women.

I have also. As an International Law student, with a very lefty feminist head of studies, we met many diverse groups, among which were Muslim women, who regarded the burqa as a subservient reminder of a woman's place in society.

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It must be a tough balancing act for the liberal hang wringers out there.

Their desire to see religious frredom weighed against sexual equality.

I wonder which one of their "beliefs" will win out, especailly as few of them are Muslim or women.

As someone said, there's no msntion of the burqa in the Koran so what it has to do with their religious beliefs is anyones guess.

Personally I'd ban it as to cover up ones face is the height of ignorance.

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Can you explain, in what parallele universe, your desperate googling supports this statement :-

"Much of the time, the burqa is an act of freedom by women"

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As someone said, there's no msntion of the burqa in the Koran so what it has to do with their religious beliefs is anyones guess.

Its a way of getting closer to Allah, or in other words "lookatmelookatmelookatme!!!!". Its basically attention seeking in most countries. Again, I'm not talking about horrible countries like Saudi where it is enforced, but as renton has said, people need access to education and information, not simply being told what to wear.

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Wait, sorry. I thought it was "an act of freedom".

Now it's attention seeking?

Well, yes. You know, like people who dye their hair a shocking colour, or become very visibly christian, or properly tree hugging pagan etc. etc. Attention seeking that they are free to do.

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Obviously, you know more muslim women than me.

Sorry, it was you who made the assertion that "much of the time" wearing the burqa was an act of freedom. The burden of proof is on you to display how that is.

I have never met a Muslim woman who wears the burqa and I guarantee they would find your assertion that it is a symbol of freedom absolutely laughable.

Of course, that's just in my experience. It could be an isolated one. I would never be stupid enough to make an assertion such as say "much of the time, the burqa is a symbol of religious oppresssion" without having facts to hand that proved that.

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Note that for the avoidance of doubt, googling individual cases of women who willingly wear a burqa does not constitute evidence in support of your ridiculous statement.

(Cue, yet another googled image of a happy go lucky burqa wearer....)

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Note that for the avoidance of doubt, googling individual cases of women who willingly wear a burqa does not constitute evidence in support of your ridiculous statement.

(Cue, yet another googled image of a happy go lucky burqa wearer....)

So what then? Evidence of women choosing to wear the niqab isn't enough to show that women choose freely to wear the niqab? You're just another person who confuses religion with culture. Religion says nothing about the burqa/niqab. Womens rights in Islam are pretty decent by the standards of religion (as was shown to be the consensus the last time this discussion came up). However, there are some fucking horrible countries out there, like Saudi. We are not Saudi Arabia. Now I'm not religious, and I don't believe religious laws should be a basis of anything, but this ridiculous claim that muslim women are enfeebled, powerless types who need protected and rescued needs to be challenged.

You telling me you've never been sold a multi pack of cheesy wotsits by a Muslim wummin?

I can guarantee that no, I never have. In fact, I don't know if I have EVER bought a multipack of wotsits, let alone from a wummin.

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So what then? Evidence of women choosing to wear the niqab isn't enough to show that women choose freely to wear the niqab?

This is like "Jack and Jill discuss the meaning of sentences."

Finding individual examples of something doesn't entitle you to determine that "much of the time" wearing a burqa is an act of freedom.

I can't make this any simpler for you. I've tried, but I can't.

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I also have absolutely zero interest in what the utterly bonkers Islamic religion has to say about the treatment of women, other than when that is enshrined in law.

I am completely against theocracies based on Islamic teaching, and I am completely against Sharia Law having any validity in any legal system, unless co-opted in by a democratic process.

If a woman wants to wear one of these costumes in Britian she is perfectly entitled to, other than where that conflicts with the public interest (in a bank for example).

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I also have absolutely zero interest in what the utterly bonkers Islamic religion has to say about the treatment of women, other than when that is enshrined in law.

I am completely against theocracies based on Islamic teaching, and I am completely against Sharia Law having any validity in any legal system, unless co-opted in by a democratic process.

If a woman wants to wear one of these costumes in Britian she is perfectly entitled to, other than where that conflicts with the public interest (in a bank for example).

I agree 100% with this.

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Hiding women behind veils in the 21st century is a ridiculous practice and should not be allowed to become part of British society. If Moslems in the UK want to retain a bit of their own cluture, then fine, but there are less extreme methods than a burqa.

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I agree 100% with this.

Banning this is a ridiculous thing to do anyway, for a number of reasons. Partly because it would have the effect of restricting the rights of women to wear what they want, and partly because the very crackpot fundamentalists people you are seeking to take action against will claim "martyr" and use it against Western governments as an example of anti-Islamic behaviour.

It's just a very murky water any sensible government would steer well clear of. Those that have thought about in Western Europe are undoubtedly well intentioned, but it's only ever going to backfire on them.

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