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it's impossible for every team to be setting the pace in every race going and having their riders go off the front like lance armstrong at his peak so it's not really part and parcel.

no one really thinks sagan and cancellara are clean but they are entertaining to watch and don't come out with all the bullshit sky do.

dan martin's win was pretty normal. if the peloton hadn't crashed when he was in his breakaway they would have caught him and purito or valverde would have won.

Thanks for that. Their drilled routine is increasingly boring to watch, there's no doubt about that. With that said, Froome has provided some exciting moments in the past, particularly enjoyed his battle with Cobo a few years ago in the Vuelta.

Like yourself (although probably to a lesser extent), I watch cycling to be entertained and there's no doubting the guys you mention are welcome characters.

My next question, I guess, is what makes Sky so much better at doping than others. I realise they have more money than other teams, but what is it spent on to give them such an advantage?

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the rumours are about new drugs called aicar and gw501516. they are supposed to help athletes increase power while lowering body weight and preventing muscle damage. sky also had geert leinders who helped turn michael rasmussen into an extremely powerful skeleton much like froome and wiggins at the moment.

to believe that sky are clean you have to assume that (i) mcquaid and verbruggen have been successful in their attempts to clean up cycling (ii) that ashenden is lying when he talks about the flaws of the passport and info about active dopers (iii) that every other team in the peloton other than sky are lazy and can't be bothered training properly or employing qualified sports scientists (iiii) that wiggins got his 4th place clean in 2009 beating known dopers (v) chris froome.

there is a lot more that doesn't make any sense but that's all i've got time for now.

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I would say that folk who are both saying they want a cleaner sport AND that Team Sky's race tactics are dull and boring need to pick one or the other. The fact is, using a whole team to spread the work through a stage is the only way it's feasible to win any sort of stage race now.

I also would say that if Sky (and I mean the multinational corporation, not Sky Procycling) knew there was doping going on within a team bearing their name they would pull the plug instantly on sponsorship. The last thing they want is their name to be dragged through the dirt over something like that.

Also, the fact that it's a lot more transparent within their team with regards to inviting journalists along to travel within the team during grand tours, training camps etc. lends weight to them being clean. You never got that with US Postal. You were never shown anything about their back ground runnings on a regular basis.

I'm not saying cycling is completely clean, but I really don't think Sky could get away with anything like what T_S_A_R is suggesting for any significant length of time.

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sky are using us postal tactics but doing it in every stage race rather than just the tour. There is no way this iswhat clean cycling looks like and it bears zero resembelence to pre epo racing.

Everything you said about sponsors applied to us postal, nike, rabobank, festina, phonak and it didn't stop them.

As for transparency if they ever answer any questions about how they came to believe leinders and jullich fitted zero tolerance or the real reason yates and rogers left or wht wiggins kisses lance's ass publicly right up to spring 2012 you may have a point. Also inviting a sponsors employee to training camp for a few days isn't that impressive either.

On the subject of rogers. Last year the media, skybots and fanboys told us he would be a gt leader on other teams. This season he is back to being gash, he must have forgotten how to train hard and get marginal gains.

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it's impossible for every team to be setting the pace in every race going and having their riders go off the front like lance armstrong at his peak so it's not really part and parcel.

no one really thinks sagan and cancellara are clean but they are entertaining to watch and don't come out with all the bullshit sky do.

dan martin's win was pretty normal. if the peloton hadn't crashed when he was in his breakaway they would have caught him and purito or valverde would have won.

I wouldn't say it's impossible. It's unlikely but not impossible. They didn't make much of an impression on the Tour of Catalunya. In fact, Wiggins tried to go off the front and ended up losing time on his competitors. HTC were continually setting the pace in flat stages of tours when they were about. There was never the outrage about their team as there is about Sky.

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it's impossible for every team to be setting the pace in every race going and having their riders go off the front like lance armstrong at his peak so it's not really part and parcel.

no one really thinks sagan and cancellara are clean but they are entertaining to watch and don't come out with all the bullshit sky do.

dan martin's win was pretty normal. if the peloton hadn't crashed when he was in his breakaway they would have caught him and purito or valverde would have won.

I wouldn't say it's impossible. It's unlikely but not impossible. They didn't make much of an impression on the Tour of Catalunya. In fact, Wiggins tried to go off the front and ended up losing time on his competitors. HTC were continually setting the pace in flat stages of tours when they were about. There was never the outrage about their team as there is about Sky.

HTC were far better at controlling a race than Sky are. They got so good no one else even tried. Mind when Cav won his first on the Champs Elysses by so much that him and Renshaw should probably have been given a 2 second time gap they were so far ahead. I loved that HTC squad. If OPQS can work it properly I think they could be even better.

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setting the pace on flat stages is totally different from doing it in mountain stages or one day races.

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setting the pace on flat stages is totally different from doing it in mountain stages or one day races.

HTC was a daft example considering they weren't involved in the mountains granted. Regarding Team Sky, some of the conspiracy theories are laughable. If they have been doping then Sky and Brailsford would stand to lose a lot of money through lawsuits like Armstrong has.

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As a genuine question, what is the justification for Sagan and Dan Martin's wins being seen as impressive and deserved, but Froome and Porte's efforts in the Criterium being brushed off?

I grant you Team Sky's set up is suspicious, but does that not need to be taken as part and parcel of road cycling?

Dan Martin has been bubbling under for a while, great to see him make the breakthrough. A Valverde or Purito win would have been more meh.

Sagan is an entertainer, simple as that.

Froome just comes across as a really boring individual, nothing more, and I`m probably completely wrong. He`s had some fantastic wins to be fair.

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I do find it quite amusing the hate Team Sky get. They were a team who were always going to leave a huge mark on this sport. Think about what Sky Sports has done for football, darts, boxing etc. Sky would never have fronted up the reported £30 million start up fund if they thought they were going to build a second rate team who were there to make the numbers up. I'm not some sort of Team Sky fan boy, but I've done a fair amount of reading about the team and the amount of different areas they work on. The attention to detail is absolutely mind-boggling.

Strange how everyone on here throws all these wild accusations about at Team Sky, but no one seems to point much in the way of it at the ridiculously successful GB track team who were effectively the blueprint in setting up Sky's style of training.

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I do find it quite amusing the hate Team Sky get. They were a team who were always going to leave a huge mark on this sport. Think about what Sky Sports has done for football, darts, boxing etc. Sky would never have fronted up the reported £30 million start up fund if they thought they were going to build a second rate team who were there to make the numbers up. I'm not some sort of Team Sky fan boy, but I've done a fair amount of reading about the team and the amount of different areas they work on. The attention to detail is absolutely mind-boggling.

Strange how everyone on here throws all these wild accusations about at Team Sky, but no one seems to point much in the way of it at the ridiculously successful GB track team who were effectively the blueprint in setting up Sky's style of training.

When you look at Sky you see a team who ride with dominance like no team since US Postal. Only they are even better at it. And considering how we now know how dirty US Postal were, this makes Sky look suspicious. It doesn't make them guilty, but it certainly does explain why people throw a lot of accusations at them. And I think it's understandable for cycling fans to be incredible sceptical. I personally don't assume they are guilty of doping, but I do think Brailsford & Wiggins declarations ring a bit hollow.

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Sky still can't go toe-to-toe with the big boys on the classics. Fully expecting Cancellara to rip everyone to shreds next week in Paris-Roubaix.

It was certainly an awesome performance today.

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It was certainly an awesome performance today.

The way he dropped Sagan on that final climb was so impressive. Then because of his time-trialling expertise, as soon as it levelled off he's gone.

Cancellara easy days for next weekend.

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True, it was almost as if Clasicomano Luigi was still a client of Fuentes.

Marvellous stuff, for my bank balance at least.

Roll on Paris Roubaix so we can do it all again.

And god bless the new generation (sic) like Porte, Sagan, Froome, Cancellara. It's like betting on US horse racing with lasix, only it's more accurate.

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Sky turn up to the tour of the Basque Country with only five riders but attempt to control the peloton anyway.

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i'm starting to think that brailsford is trolling the world.

1-2-3 in the tour. this is going to be hilarious.

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i'm starting to think that brailsford is trolling the world.

1-2-3 in the tour. this is going to be hilarious.

Don't know anything about that, but given how good Porte is looking this season, & the depth they seem to have in their squad, could they be looking at the three Grand Tours with different winners (Wigo-Giro, Froome-Tour & Porte-Vuelta)?

Also seems Sagan caused a bit of a stooshie at the Tour of Flanders podium.

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Edited by kiddy

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