T_S_A_R Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Brilliant stuff it was, but, & there has to be a but, this is the kinda form Voeckler has never showed before, covering attacks from the top GC riders in the world, it`s gotta have people wondering just how. I hope he`s clean, he`s a rider who you can`t help to like, I just get the feeling it`s mibbe not what it appears. Hope I`m wrong. i agree it's a bit dodgy but... It's also the fact that he seems to be doing it with ease. He's not exactly struggling to do it. it's def not easy. he pretty much had to carried off his bike after stage 12 It's the old saying about "pulling on the Golden Fleece". He's always been a decent rider, his protection of the MJ in 2004 was along much the same lines. exacty motivation counts for a lot. i'm as cynical as they come but i'm actually delighted by the way things have went. a plateau in performance between the elite riders is a good thing (maybe not good for tv tho). i still think OPL and BMC are dodgy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 None of them are clean... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 None of them are clean... Maybe so, but the "sports scientists" always seem to be one step ahead of the testers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 None of them are clean... there are levels of clean however. voeckler said after the stage he is in the best form of his life but in 2004 that would have counted for nothing. you have to bear in mind that we're only in the first set of mountains and that micro dosing and transfusions are nothing compared to epo and tesosterone but things seem to be improving. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 there are levels of clean however. voeckler said after the stage he is in the best form of his life but in 2004 that would have counted for nothing. you have to bear in mind that we're only in the first set of mountains and that micro dosing and transfusions are nothing compared to epo and tesosterone but things seem to be improving. That level of clean would depend on which lab the samples are sent to. As AC's sample, last year, was sent to a lab with equipment that could detect to a lower level than WADA's limits were set at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Coudnt see the highlights today , i was working. Cant wait to catch them tommorow afternoon thoug. The mountain stages are always the best. And can we stop this, he's riding a bit too well, i think he must be doping. Can we not just congratulate him and think hes just very motivated. It's like we're playing a mafia game. By the way, gutted for joy last night, he thoughou;y deserved it and i was annoyed thor took it away from him. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 (edited) Coudnt see the highlights today , i was working. Cant wait to catch them tommorow afternoon thoug. The mountain stages are always the best. And can we stop this, he's riding a bit too well, i think he must be doping. Can we not just congratulate him and think hes just very motivated. It's like we're playing a mafia game. By the way, gutted for joy last night, he thoughou;y deserved it and i was annoyed thor took it away from him. No. Floyd Landis, was incredibly motivated when he claimed back the 7 minutes (or whatever) he lost to Oscar Pereiro, oh no wait he was a junkie. Like most of them. Also, Voeckler has only shown form like this once in his career before, so it is not surprising that people are suspicious. Edited July 16, 2011 by Mr. Brightside 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Gripweed Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 The Schlecks lost this on Thursday, not today. They would have taken more time out of Contador if their tem had been better organised while Bertie was weak. He is getting stronger now and will probably tear them a new arsehole on the TT and in the Alps. Had they killed him of the other day when they had the chance.... Voeckler has been outstanding in yellow. Again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 The Schlecks lost this on Thursday, not today. They would have taken more time out of Contador if their tem had been better organised while Bertie was weak. He is getting stronger now and will probably tear them a new arsehole on the TT and in the Alps. Had they killed him of the other day when they had the chance.... Voeckler has been outstanding in yellow. Again. I'd tend to agree, whilst being 4 mins down on Voeckler AC's only 2.11 down on Frank. Evans is his main danger at the moment IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Coudnt see the highlights today , i was working. Cant wait to catch them tommorow afternoon thoug. The mountain stages are always the best. And can we stop this, he's riding a bit too well, i think he must be doping. Can we not just congratulate him and think hes just very motivated. It's like we're playing a mafia game. By the way, gutted for joy last night, he thoughou;y deserved it and i was annoyed thor took it away from him. Er no, lets just pretend doping doesn`t exist then eh? Like it or not Tommy V and his new found ability to out-perform some of the best climbers in the world raises obvious questions. Doping exists in cycling, but at least they are trying(although could do a lot better IMO) to do something about it. Nearly all other sports turn a blind eye. I for one have a lot of time for Voeckler, but I still question where this form has come from. He has been a very tenacious attacking rider in the past who couragously held the Yellow Jersey back in 04 for a while. However he has never seriously competed at a consistant level like this before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Er no, lets just pretend doping doesn`t exist then eh? Like it or not Tommy V and his new found ability to out-perform some of the best climbers in the world raises obvious questions. Doping exists in cycling, but at least they are trying(although could do a lot better IMO) to do something about it. Nearly all other sports turn a blind eye. I for one have a lot of time for Voeckler, but I still question where this form has come from. He has been a very tenacious attacking rider in the past who couragously held the Yellow Jersey back in 04 for a while. However he has never seriously competed at a consistant level like this before. Can we not just assume he's clean until he's proven guilty though. If he's not clean he'll be found out, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drs Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 If he's not clean he'll be found out, Like Armstrong 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Can we not just assume he's clean until he's proven guilty though. If he's not clean he'll be found out, Only if they send his samples to the lab in Cologne. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnash Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Another win for Cav. Just looking at the all-time stage winners list, there's every chance he could top the list by the end of his career. He's currently on 19 and Eddie Merckx is way out in front on 34. If he gets only 4 stage wins per tour for the next few years, he'll surpass Merckx's total before the end of the 2015 Tour. In fact if he doesn't come up against any serious injury / drugs / competition then he could rack up 40+ wins. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) a very interesting analysis of saturday's stage the main points are.... *power outputs are down on what you would expect on a tour mountain stage. * the result of more riders staying in the elite group is extra drafting which makes it easier to remain in the group up the climb. it also has the effect of making attacks much more difficult due to their being more legs to chase them down. * the performance differential between elite competitors is what you would expect compared with other sports. the guy that does the blog seems to know his stuff and seems to think that we are either (a) seeing a clean race or (b) the biopassport has resulted in their being a fairly low dirty ceiling. obviously b is much more likely but the sport seems to be heading in the correct direction. i'm quite happy with the way the race is going and definitely buy the "cleaner" argument, i haven't seen anything yet that makes me call utter bullshit. unfortunately the internet generally seems to disagree and most sites seem full of idiots calling the riders (esp. the schlecks) pussies because one of them isn't sprinting up the mountain away from the rest. if things continue this way they may need in future years to start thinking about easing up on the difficulty of the stages to allow them to be more aggressive at the ends of stages. Edited July 17, 2011 by T_S_A_R 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 a very interesting analysis of saturday's stage the main points are.... *power outputs are down on what you would expect on a tour mountain stage. * the result of more riders staying in the elite group is extra drafting which makes it easier to remain in the group up the climb. it also has the effect of making attacks much more difficult due to their being more legs to chase them down. * the performance differential between elite competitors is what you would expect compared with other sports. the guy that does the blog seems to know his stuff and seems to think that we are either (a) seeing a clean race or (b) the biopassport has resulted in their being a fairly low dirty ceiling. obviously b is much more likely but the sport seems to be heading in the correct direction. i'm quite happy with the way the race is going and definitely buy the "cleaner" argument, i haven't seen anything yet that makes me call utter bullshit. unfortunately the internet generally seems to disagree and most sites seem full of idiots calling the riders (esp. the schlecks) pussies because one of them isn't sprinting up the mountain away from the rest. if things continue this way they may need in future years to start thinking about easing up on the difficulty of the stages to allow them to be more aggressive at the ends of stages. Thanks for the link, interesting stuff indeed. I too enjoyed Saturday`s stage & it is tremendous that there are perhaps 5 or 6 riders who can realistically win the Tour still. As for the difficulty of stages, the Tour is a bit hampered by the fact that there are not really many super-hard climbs in France (i.e. Zoncolan, Mortirolo or Angliru) which would allow for a much more natural selection. If as is hinted the riders are cleaner then, as you say, bigger groups will arrive at MTFs much more often. High levels of doping in the past would allow riders to really blast the opposition away with pure power, eg Riis in 96 at Hautacam, Ullrich in 97 at Andorra or Armstrong any number of times. It has also been very strange in that no selection has been made due to the lack of a Time-Trial. Had there been one already we would be seeing very different tactics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Gripweed Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Looks like Cav, Bernie and Renshaw will all be heading to Sky next year. With Wiggins probably concentrating more on the Games, I would guess, it would make sense. Thor for me tomorrow again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe pineapples Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) The lead out of the HTC team in the final kilometres of yesterdays stage was immense, but after that it still comes down to the sheer power of Mark Cavendish. Hopefully he's nearly sealed the green jersey, but amazing record on stage wins Edited July 18, 2011 by joe pineapples 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_S_A_R Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Thanks for the link, interesting stuff indeed. I too enjoyed Saturday`s stage & it is tremendous that there are perhaps 5 or 6 riders who can realistically win the Tour still. As for the difficulty of stages, the Tour is a bit hampered by the fact that there are not really many super-hard climbs in France (i.e. Zoncolan, Mortirolo or Angliru) which would allow for a much more natural selection. If as is hinted the riders are cleaner then, as you say, bigger groups will arrive at MTFs much more often. High levels of doping in the past would allow riders to really blast the opposition away with pure power, eg Riis in 96 at Hautacam, Ullrich in 97 at Andorra or Armstrong any number of times. It has also been very strange in that no selection has been made due to the lack of a Time-Trial. Had there been one already we would be seeing very different tactics. it's a great site. the stuff about oscar prestorious is very eye opening. i think we'll see action this week. one of the reasons that blog gives for the riders seeming to be holding off is it's not only their ability to launch an attack that they have to consider but their ability to recover from it which explains the conservative riding but also makes me think that 3 days in a row in the high alps at the end of the week will break a few contenders. as we get closer to the TT everyone except evans is going to be forced to show their hand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Nomad Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-to-just-avoid-snow-on-galibier Looks like the riders may just be lucky enough to avoid a bit of snow! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.