Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 That's a bit Dicksonesque, is it not? Well, no. I trusted my then-girlfriend, now-wife to make her own decision. If in doing so I displayed any respect or otherwise to her parents, it would be in thinking that they had raised a daughter capable of making such choices. But really, they didn't enter into the equation. I get along fine with them - very, very well, in fact - and my family gets along fine with them all as well. It's just... not their decision, is it? It's mine and my then-girlfriend's. If I've understood your posts correctly, you think it's better to be included if you're male. Unless you're talking about asking the mother instead. That may have been your understanding. To elaborate, in my mind when I wrote it I was thinking of the time I asked my inlaws to be, the 'Inclusion' I alluded to was conducted with both inlaws and myself and my girlfreind discussing the matter and being welcomed into the fold. It's good to be included. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The weirdest part IMO is the claim that doing so is showing good manners. It's not really, unless you're going to follow absurd social convention (if it's still even that) the whole way and haggle with the father over how many cattle would represent a fair dowry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) edit: the below is obviously a response to 'Zen Archer' and not VT That actually sounds unbearably creepy to me, but fair play in at least being equitable about it. Still, you can presumably understand that I thought you were referring only to fathers-in-law... given that your initial response came as a quoted reply to these lines: "Both my sons asked their father in laws permission," "A nice gesture for who? The father-in-law?" Edited August 23, 2012 by Swampy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Also: are you lot the fucking Kennedys? Are you really "marrying into a family"? Did that actually form any part of your motivation? These aren't rhetorical questions (well, the first one was.) Again, it's something that I just have no way of relating to. Again: I like my in-laws. My whole family on both sides get along well. I'll probably have dinner with my in-laws next week. But marrying "into" them didn't even begin to cross my mind when I was getting ready to propose. It just wasn't an issue. Frankly I feel sorry for anyone for whom it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The weirdest part IMO is the claim that doing so is showing good manners. It's not really, unless you're going to follow absurd social convention (if it's still even that) the whole way and haggle with the father over how many cattle would represent a fair dowry. The trickiest bit for some is pulling a burd in the first place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 edit: the below is obviously a response to 'Zen Archer' and not VT That actually sounds unbearably creepy to me, but fair play in at least being equitable about it. Still, you can presumably understand that I thought you were referring only to fathers-in-law... given that your initial response came as a quoted reply to these lines: Re. the highlighted part, good for you. Again, it's good to be included. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Phoenix Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'm with Swampy on this one. If he'd asked my permission to take my daughter's hand in marriage, I'd have booted him in the balls and told him to get to f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You keep saying that. Is it supposed to take on meaning each time it's repeated? Did you include your wife's siblings? Neighbours? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'm with Swampy on this one. If he'd asked my permission to take my daughter's hand in marriage, I'd have booted him in the balls and told him to get to f**k. You couldn't even get your foot that high, you daft old fantasist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'm with Swampy on this one. If he'd asked my permission to take my daughter's hand in marriage, I'd have booted him in the balls and told him to get to f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The trickiest bit for some is pulling a burd in the first place. I don't seem to recall difficulty being cited as a factor, which means your post falls at the first hurdle. Unlucky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You keep saying that. Is it supposed to take on meaning each time it's repeated? Did you include your wife's siblings? Neighbours? When you get fed up waiting for a reply, here's something to play with to while away the hours. Feel included now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I don't seem to recall difficulty being cited as a factor, which means your post falls at the first hurdle. Unlucky. The first hurdle is finding a burd. That's you ruled out already. Unlucky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 When you get fed up waiting for a reply, here's something to play with to while away the hours. Feel included now? If you don't want to have the discussion, don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Cuddy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I don't regard it as harmless, though. I think it maintains this ideal - admittedly in a pretty benign fashion - that women are property. An idea that held sway in the West well into the last century. It's still the default in much of the world. As I say, it's a fairly benign example of this, but one worth sweeping away nonetheless. We didn't do it at our wedding, since you ask. I didn't. I asked what point there was in that tradition iif she can do it all by herself. If you'd rather see the back of one tradition, there's little point in the other. I know you didn't do that, but I wonder how many people can't be arsed with the asking tradition but still have their bride "given" to them by her dad. A lot of women (but certainly not all) are always going to be their Dad's little girl - and that works both ways. This is another reason a lot of women and their dads like this tradition. Also: are you lot the fucking Kennedys? Are you really "marrying into a family"? Did that actually form any part of your motivation? These aren't rhetorical questions (well, the first one was.) Again, it's something that I just have no way of relating to. Again: I like my in-laws. My whole family on both sides get along well. I'll probably have dinner with my in-laws next week. But marrying "into" them didn't even begin to cross my mind when I was getting ready to propose. It just wasn't an issue. Frankly I feel sorry for anyone for whom it is. I never mentioned "marrying into", but just to answer that point anyway, my family are really quite traditional. My grandfather was born in Durham to Italian Catholic parents so you can imagine the importance of "family" to him, and my Dad was brought up the same (Welsh Catholic mother, but the same principle applies). I don't think my Dad would ever have been offended not to be asked (my brother-in-law never did), but he felt respected when he was. There was no way he was going to say no, there would have been no point because it wouldn't have made a difference, as has been mentioned. It was a nicety, nothing more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Phoenix Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You couldn't even get your foot that high, you daft old fantasist. Fair point given your balls will undoubtedly be in the region of your chin given the inevitable location of your cock. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The first hurdle is finding a burd. That's you ruled out already. Unlucky. Again, difficulty is not relevant to the debate. Not sure what you were hoping to achieve by repeating yourself, but unsurprisingly the same end-result has occurred. Unlucky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I didn't. I asked what point there was in that tradition iif she can do it all by herself. If you'd rather see the back of one tradition, there's little point in the other. I know you didn't do that, but I wonder how many people can't be arsed with the asking tradition but still have their bride "given" to them by her dad. A lot of women (but certainly not all) are always going to be their Dad's little girl - and that works both ways. This is another reason a lot of women and their dads like this tradition. Patriarchal culture hurts men as well as women - and the converse, that women can buy into it as well as men, is also true. I understand what you're saying and I have no doubt that it's true bit for me it's no more a justification than anything else. I never mentioned "marrying into", but just to answer that point anyway, my family are really quite traditional. My grandfather was born in Durham to Italian Catholic parents so you can imagine the importance of "family" to him, and my Dad was brought up the same (Welsh Catholic mother, but the same principle applies). I don't think my Dad would ever have been offended not to be asked (my brother-in-law never did), but he felt respected when he was. There was no way he was going to say no, there would have been no point because it wouldn't have made a difference, as has been mentioned. It was a nicety, nothing more. Hmm. If my wife had come from a family like that, and asked me to 'ask permission' just to keep the peace... I might well have done it. I'd have explained first why I thought it was a stupid idea but if it was important to her I'd probably have gone through with it. But if she wasn't bothered either way I wouldn't have played along with it. So... yeah. Fair point given your balls will undoubtedly be in the region of your chin given the inevitable location of your cock. OK, that was funny 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Phoenix Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Fair play to Swampy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I think your success rate for funny posts is around 1 in 75 but they generally are worth waiting for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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